Do you reject original Sin?

China Cat Sunflower said:
My understanding is that, at the time, what they would do is make up this really thick sort of fermented grape mash and then mix it with water so that the alcohol would kill the parasites in the water. Toward the end of the feast as they ran out of the concentrated mash they would start to mix the "wine" more watery since by then all the drunks were past noticing and to stretch it out. So it makes sense that it would be an odd thing for a batch of good stuff to come out at the end.

Chris
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"Perfect wine" The wine captain was "astounded" at the taste of what he sampled.

You're talking about a hired hand here. He has no business approaching the BrideGroom for any reason, yet again he broke all protocol to question the man of the day, on why he saved the best for last...

The hired hand was more astounded than the groom. The servant saw what the groom had no clue of.

Chris...damn it, the story is about Jesus, and us...get it now?

v/r

Q
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
But Joshua, how is the Kingdom manifested if no one does the heavy lifting? If every single follower doesn't sacrifice himself and his family and personal aspirations for the sake of following Jesus how does it get done? I could give you twenty texts to this effect, but I'm just asking the question?

Chris
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That is God's problem Chris. There may be a time when we are called to step up to the plate, but in the mean time we learn and grow and increase our Love for our fellow man...

and we learn about and love the Lord, our God and Savior.

That is how it works, and it is a good thing.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
That is God's problem Chris. There may be a time when we are called to step up to the plate, but in the mean time we learn and grow and increase our Love for our fellow man...

That is how it works, and it is a good thing.

v/r

Q
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But it all starts out with the sinner's prayer. "Oh my god, I'm a worthless sinner...please help me Jesus." Etc. And then your saved, whatever that is. And then you get to tell everyone else what a piece of crap they are, I guess. I went through that. I came back from the first Gulf War all screwed up. I had that "conversion" experience. It worked. It helped me. But when I got my life back together I started to introspect. I was in therapy so that was kinda part of the process. The more things straightened out the less I needed the emotional crutch. So now I'm doing good. Got a family, a house, two cats and two kids. My brother died but that's how life goes. I don't feel like a sinner. I'm doing everything right. I can't find a reason to do the "saved" thing again. I don't need it to compensate for what I can't be. It seems like Jesus has to be more than that. If not then I can't see the need- for me anyway.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
He wants us to drink the good stuff?

No, I get it. I was just thinking about it on a more mundane level.

Chris
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We are, the good stuff. According to God, we are the best that there is. But we don't have all the answers, so trust has to kick in somewhere. Interesting how that little "requirement" gets left off of the pulpit from Sabbath to Sabbath.

I can't blame you your retisence.

But like Indiana Jones, I say "take a leap of faith"...

v/r

Q
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
But it all starts out with the sinner's prayer. "Oh my god, I'm a worthless sinner...please help me Jesus." Etc. And then your saved, whatever that is. And then you get to tell everyone else what a piece of crap they are, I guess. I went through that. I came back from the first Gulf War all screwed up. I had that "conversion" experience. It worked. It helped me. But when I got my life back together I started to introspect. I was in therapy so that was kinda part of the process. The more things straightened out the less I needed the emotional crutch. So now I'm doing good. Got a family, a house, two cats and two kids. My brother died but that's how life goes. I don't feel like a sinner. I'm doing everything right. I can't find a reason to do the "saved" thing again. I don't need it to compensate for what I can't be. It seems like Jesus has to be more than that. If not then I can't see the need- for me anyway.

Chris
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It starts off with "Jesus, I can't do this alone. Please help me".

Carrie Underwood coined the phrase quite well in her song "Jesus, take the wheel"

Have you ever been there? Let Him take the wheel (you can always take it back).

p.s. in the early spring of 1988, I was driving with my three year old, and year and a half old boys from Seattle to Detroit. I was alone, tired, and downtrodden. Then the skies went from blue to black (in Montana), and we hit a blizzard like I've never seen or felt before. I was on I-90, and then I was spinning out of control at 70 MPH...

Chris, I had three seconds to say to God before life as I knew it and my sons' lives too were over, so I said something. I said "not my sons Lord, take the wheel".

I never took the "wheel" back concerning my sons...

Now they are respected NCOs in the military, with combat duty under their belts, yet a very humble attitude about themselves and life.

One day, we'll talk about them, but the point is they both followed suit, in asking God to "take the wheel" of their lives (shocked the **** out of me, in a good way), and they ain't doing too bad.

Ask God to "take the wheel" Chris. Take a chance. Hold on too tight and lose everything. Hold sand in your palm easy like, and the sand stays. Grip it and it sifts through the fingers like a sieve. Ask God to teach you how to hold the sand...

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I like that song. Got gospel in my bones, don't exactly know how that happened.

I could tell you a story about providence. About the road to recovery and how each little thing led to another little thing that led to a good thing. How disaster and setbacks taught me important things that profited me greatly later, and about how screwing things up is a great way to learn. It's all in retrospect though. I couldn't see the light for the darkness back then.

Thank you Joshua. I've enjoyed this little conversation. All the best to you and your family.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I like that song. Got gospel in my bones, don't exactly know how that happened.

I could tell you a story about providence. About the road to recovery and how each little thing led to another little thing that led to a good thing. How disaster and setbacks taught me important things that profited me greatly later, and about how screwing things up is a great way to learn. It's all in retrospect though. I couldn't see the light for the darkness back then.

Thank you Joshua. I've enjoyed this little conversation. All the best to you and your family.

Chris
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Ditto Chris.

God speed to you and yours.

v/r

Q
 
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