human stupidity- the curse of mankind

[Tao_Equus]

....... then an atheistic conclusion is inevitable.

s.

Death, Taxes and Atheism...
sounds like a book title

Tao

 

[flowperson]

Isn't it someone else's turn to be the brunt of all the ribbings, I feel quite besmirched.

s.

Hi Snoopy...OK, mea culpa...but it all made me laugh so much. But then...Pamela Anderson with an upper arm tattoo. Blame MW, she started the happy thread.

MW..."Lemming syndrome" is merely a label I devised to identify the phenomenon of following leaders to disaster... not a personal observation concerning your faith or how you follow your interpretation of islamic principles. Kiss, Kiss ?

wil...you're not allowed to blame anybody !

Hmmm.....I wonder if Adam ever developed an emotional problem from all of the "ribbing" he got.

Oh...and I definitely tend to use the word "G-d" as a substitute for all that is ineffable and sublime in our existence. My opinion is that 99% of our societal problems since THE Creation have stemmed from our inclination to at once anthropomorphize and de-sacralize the divine. There's more on this subject in the book, The Sacred and the Profane, by Mircea Eliade.

flow....

 

[Tao_Equus]

Oh...and I definitely tend to use the word "G-d" as a substitute for all that is ineffable and sublime in our existence. My opinion is that 99% of our societal problems since THE Creation have stemmed from our inclination to at once anthropomorphize and de-sacralize the divine. .

Hi Flow


lol...sorry but what "THE"... like big bang.. genesis?

Anthropomorphising supreme deity seems to be a deliberate act in history and it has its uses in a psychological context. But today its just got out of hand, given our access to education. Here and elsewhere I am constantly faced not by a super intelligent God but a fussy, childish, grudge holding and generally rather unpleasant grumpy old man. This does not in any way sit well with the beauty of a butterfly, or the elementary factory of a star or the crazy symmetry of quantum entanglement. religions are not works of super nature... they are always the works of man. And to be honest I am a bit tired of apologetics that can be cited for none of them can be fairly said to be a worthwhile balance for the atrocities that take place daily in the name of 1 religion or another. Surely anything that is used so often and brutally deserves only to be banished forever from our societies?


Tao

 

[wil]

Surely anything that is used so often and brutally deserves only to be banished forever from our societies?

Isn't that how you spell communism, totalitarianism? Again, I ask, what G!d did Stalin kill millions for? Or Hitler Or Atilla, the G!dless don't stop killing when the aspect of G!d is taken away.

Ban the use of nuclear fuel, of gunpowder....heck cars! Over 1 million people die and 38 million injured each and every year due to car accidents...ban them, ban all forms of transportation!! Oh and guess what, more people die and are injured in poor nations than wealthy nations

Cars selectively kill off the down trodden, this is abominable ban them.

Surely anything that is used so often and brutally deserves only to be banished forever from our societies?

I also wonder what is up with those lifelong highly revered atheists that decide to believe in G!d in their older years....some say it is due to dementia...of course that argument could be turned on anyone who chooses atheism as well....

 

[flowperson]

Tao...Let's just say "THE" refers to the first moments of human, group self-awareness. We always forget that SO MUCH was here before WE got here.

flow....

 

[Snoopy]

Hi Snoopy...OK, mea culpa...but it all made me laugh so much. But then...Pamela Anderson with an upper arm tattoo. Blame MW, she started the happy thread.

hi flow,

well if you've had a laugh that's OK ; I don't want to blame anyone anyway, and certainly not Her Gracefulness With the Underwater Missiles.

Oh...and I definitely tend to use the word "G-d" as a substitute for all that is ineffable and sublime in our existence. My opinion is that 99% of our societal problems since THE Creation have stemmed from our inclination to at once anthropomorphize and de-sacralize the divine. There's more on this subject in the book, The Sacred and the Profane, by Mircea Eliade.
flow....

Our general agreement on stuff is becoming so tedious I think I may be forced to check this book out.

s.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Wil,

Isn't that how you spell communism, totalitarianism? Again, I ask, what G!d did Stalin kill millions for? Or Hitler Or Atilla, the G!dless don't stop killing when the aspect of G!d is taken away.

Ban the use of nuclear fuel, of gunpowder....heck cars! Over 1 million people die and 38 million injured each and every year due to car accidents...ban them, ban all forms of transportation!! Oh and guess what, more people die and are injured in poor nations than wealthy nations

Cars selectively kill off the down trodden, this is abominable ban them. I also wonder what is up with those lifelong highly revered atheists that decide to believe in G!d in their older years....some say it is due to dementia...of course that argument could be turned on anyone who chooses atheism as well....

Well I purposely did not use the word "ban", but banish....to cast out rather than outlaw. I am only saying its high time humanity woke up and faced for real the awful damage done to society by religion. I do not want to see it attempted with an iron fist but by honest dialogue and a genuine appraisal of the state of things as they are. Or do we wait till one of the end of days fanatics pulls the nuclear trigger? That religion allows peoples minds to become so perverted from reality surely means it is an issue long overdue a rethink.

Tao

 

[Francis king]

you see, I believe in God... that's my problem... if I could put it down on paper and say- this list of points- this is God- I would be happy, but I cannot...

my annoyance is focused on those of the respective flocks who spread misery and depression and mayhem and call it godly...

i suppose my frustration is for those of the blind faith variety of religious endeavours- those scabby clinker ridden sheep who baa in all the right places but wouldn't know the real deal if it roasted them on a griddle...

to me, practising, studying, being interested in religion is a positive thing, and it appears those that do benefit from it- but there's a helluva lot of ppl out there who study for years and miss the point, who exploit religion to give credence to their negativity and lack of humanity...

they're the ones who are cursed... not all of us...

 

[Muslimwoman]

Hey, you're not the first to be compared to a furry animal you know. Some of us have even had images to demonstrate.

Oh no does that mean I am now besmirched?

Blame MW, she started the happy thread.

I don't know about a lemming but I am certainly starting to feel like a goat - a scapegoat. Why do I keep getting the blame for everything? A person starts a happy thread and before you know it they are getting the 'blame' - humph again.

Kiss, Kiss ?

You know I am not allowed to do the kiss kiss thing but metaphorically kiss kiss. XX

Isn't that how you spell communism, totalitarianism? Again, I ask, what G!d did Stalin kill millions for? Or Hitler Or Atilla, the G!dless don't stop killing when the aspect of G!d is taken away.

Hip, hip hurray for Wil. I wish people would stop blaming G-d for human bloody stupidity.

well if you've had a laugh that's OK ; I don't want to blame anyone anyway, and certainly not Her Gracefulness With the Underwater Missiles.

Too late I am in the huff already.

I am only saying its high time humanity woke up and faced for real the awful damage done to society by religion.

The damage isn't done by religion Tao, it is done by people using religion. If religion ceased to exist tomorrow we would find other reasons to kill each other, it just seems to be in some peoples nature.

my annoyance is focused on those of the respective flocks who spread misery and depression and mayhem and call it godly...

Here here Francis, very well said.

Salaam

 

[Ciel]

you see, I believe in God...........

my annoyance is focused on those of the respective flocks who spread misery and depression and mayhem and call it godly...

..

Yes......not without compassion but.......... can we cast out and banish the worship of the suffering saints. Can we cast out the whole aspect of seeing suffering as a noble cause.

- c -

 

[cyberpi]

I said the golden rule of 'Do unto others as you'd have done unto you' seems to contain arrogance.

I don't see it that way, but I think I see why you see it that way.

I guess I could flip and say that it is better to be accused of arrogance than to not be allegedly arrogant. However, the point I will try to make with you is that accepting words, no matter how stupid or arrogant, are always PER your will.

Let's take an example....say someone is into S&M, enjoys being beaten and humiliated by others.... I would not prefer that they do unto me as they would have done unto them....would you? Now you don't have to answer that, this is a public forum, and what you do in private is your business....

Are you suggesting that the 'golden rule' advocates rape? Any form of sex against a person's will is called RAPE. I hear there are people who wish to be raped, some who wish to be murdered, some who wish to be a victim,... but I have yet to meet any to understand why.

The issue I see is that you compare a stone and a word as equal. If I did call you a name like arrogant, or evil,... I'm not, but if I did knowingly say or show you ANYTHING that you find personally offensive or revolting... have I thrown a stone at you? Have I done something counter to your rule? Against your will?

Let me ask it this way... If I knowingly dish up a plate of a food that you dislike, or a Christmas fruit cake with density greater than a stone, and I place it on your doorstep as an alleged gift... have I thrown a stone at you? What if you really wish to receive nothing from me, and I somehow know this, yet I judge and I give it to you anyway? Have I done something counter to your will? Would I then be worthy of being called 'arrogant' for giving you something that you don't want? Allegedly because I presumed that you surely must be like me with a need for unwanted fruit cakes? If you don't want it... don't eat it. There are many things I don't know and that I don't want to clutter my mind with, and when someone gives them to me I do eat it but it goes in one ear and out the bladder... per my will. How different is an unwanted fruit cake?

Imagine if the gift is to hand you a TV remote. Can you be offended or revolted if someone hands you a TV remote? I think every word that a person could possibly throw at me is the gift of a TV remote... or a book. No TV or book is living but it is living people who author the content of TV shows or books. Not a single living author of a TV show, a movie, or a book... ever bothered to ask me if I wanted to see their show or read them. How dare them. RAPE? Against my will? Arrogance? Unwanted fruit cakes? Treating me in a way I don't want?

However, can you see that just because others would like to be treated in one way, that all are the same and all would like to be treated in that way?

I am guessing you are missing a 'NOT' there... not all the same? Yes I see that people are different and I do see that many don't like the way I treat them. No, I do not and will not treat each individual per their will. Call me arrogant, but I expect foreign treatment from others including the allegedly undesired judgments, uncivil, unchristian, spendidly arrogant... fruit cakes... on my door step. Why? I purposely and intentionally dish out food that people don't want. Why? Well, people are NOT the same.

The saying is ancient....and while it can be said hopping on one foot....my opposition to it surely shouldn't put you on such a defensive....even if in some previous incarnation you perceive yourself to be the inventor of the idear.

It was the word arrogance that sparked my interest. I recall someone on a thread who said that arrogance was like fire and they felt the need to punch a person with arrogance in the nose so that it didn't spread. I think that person also saw a word and a stone as equal. If you are punched someday for something you say, will you be defensive or consider it well deserved? Well deserved since a word and stone are equal to you?

The thing is, 'arrogance' is a nature of character that is judged by the person who allegedly sees it. If it is judged through a TV, a book, or an internet forum then it is just from WORDS or image that the judgement is made. Nobody is punched in the nose by the TV, the book, or the internet. Nobody is smashed with a stone thrown through the TV. I choose when to hear words or when to mute them. I choose whether to chew on them or to spit them out. No matter what degree of arrogance there is in a blind person's words who tries to describe to me what the world looks like, it is always per my will whether to hear from them or not. So anything that is said per the 'golden rule' will also be per the 'platinum rule' that you gave. Yet, you appear to have claimed 'arrogance' is in following the 'golden rule', but not the 'platinum rule'. I think it all stems from seeing an undesired word and an undesired stone as equivalent. However, I also recall that your interest peaked before when I mentioned that Jesus was a selective servant.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Tao,

My concern is: who or what takes over the function of religion if religion goes away? Since, really, the evolved form of religion is nationalism, if religion goes away the sole provider of that kind of programming becomes the government. When government assumes the role of religion things don't work out all that well. I'm inclined to think, though, that the influence of organized religion is on a gradual devolutionary down slope. The optimistic version is that as religion's influence subsides organized religion turns toward activities of a socially conscientious nature. So, instead of providing the cultural propaganda to move the military machine, religion begins to promote an identity of conscience, pacifism, and restraint. But that still leaves the question of what mechanism steps in to push the nationalist identity propaganda that religion used to promulgate. In the interim, if it's the government with no counter balance of conscience via religion, then that could lead to a very bad state of affairs.

Chris

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Sorry, I got pulled away for a sec.

Look at what's been going on in Myanmar. The power for change is invested in the revered status of the monks. There is martyr value there. It was the same with MLK and the civil rights movement. It's not just that people put their lives on the line, it's the monks. It's their status that brings the eyes of the world; that has the power to bring the people to revolt. Who will perform this function when religion is gone? How much more Orwellian will that future look than one of continued "ignorance" and superstition expressed in religion regardless the tool of misery that it has been and that it is? Gotta think about both sides here before we decide how much stupidity should be tolerated.

Chris

 

[mee]

I have been reading another post about- how we must become like children to enter heaven, and how important beginners mind is, and yet...

quote]
Freedom from pride or arrogance; lowliness of mind. It is not weakness but a state of mind that is pleasing to Jehovah.
God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones."—Jas 4:6; 1Pe 5:5.

 

[Tao_Equus]

My apologies Chris, I thot this thread had withered and died and only just read your pertinent thoughts.

I do not know that I have any answer, or not had any time to think of one yet What you say is an issue in a minority of cases though. The only big power where God comes into it is the US and thats just a bought rubber stamp. I dream of a sort of truly Democratic, (not the sham we call democracy in the west), United Nations where all peoples are equally represented. They would have an army drawn from all nations and this army would be the only military permitted to bear arms, with strict controls on that too. Weapons manufacture would become a serious crime rather than the largest global industry. There would be incentives to travel/work in other countries and inter-racial marriage would also be encouraged. This really deserves another thread to explore it fully tho... so I will start one.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/utopia-for-our-children-8224.html#post125768

 

[Neemai]

From the East side:

"in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly." - Sri Chaitanya


... Neemai

 

[cyberpi]

From the East side:

"in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly." - Sri Chaitanya


... Neemai

A person is higher than the straw in the street, a tree has very little tolerance or course of action, and a person does not have to deny themselves or consider themselves as the equal of a pile of poo to be humble. It sounds to me like Sri Chaitanya never knew God... or even himself.

Counter to him, I have found your posts often refreshing to read Neemai. I agree that a person is not the body, but rather the driver, resident, or temporary owner of it.