Fundamentalist Christianity

[Quahom1]

Kenod,

"The love that Jesus practised encompassed forgiveness and patience, but it did not include the "many paths to the Truth" rhetoric we often hear today."
________________

But how could it be otherwise? There are almost as many varieties of views as there are people.

So let's say that Truth is one, and is not malleable. Okay. But we are malleable. So how do we move toward the Truth? It seems to me that the greatest barrier to the Truth is those who assume they are already in possession of it. No one is. But we are all called to move toward the Truth. And the journey is never-ending; the mistake is to settle down and stop moving.

I believe what Kenod is pointing out is the statement that Jesus made about the path to righteousness and "heaven" being narrow and hard, while the road to destruction is wide and easy...

v/r

Q

 

[cyberpi]

The idea that Truth is somehow malleable really worries me. I may not have the whole Truth (yeah, even I can be wrong!!) but I sure believe that there is only one Truth.

Truth is a symmetry and malleable by anyone... but every action is being recorded and that history is not malleable. Does that address your worry?

Newton was 'flat' wrong when he said, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Action and reaction are NOT equal. Action and reaction are not interchangeable, not repeatable, and not reversible. What Newton meant was, "For every action force there is an equal and opposing reaction force." But there is no tug-o-war that will last for very long.

The Bible is either the infallible Word of God or it is not. One of the defining hallmarks of Christian fundamentalists is that we believe the former.

Your first sentence is called extremism regardless of whether it is the former or the latter.

 

[Jeannot]

I believe what Kenod is pointing out is the statement that Jesus made about the path to righteousness and "heaven" being narrow and hard, while the road to destruction is wide and easy...

v/r

Q

Yes, it's narrrow and hard--for each of us.

 

[kenod]

Kenod,

"The love that Jesus practised encompassed forgiveness and patience, but it did not include the "many paths to the Truth" rhetoric we often hear today."
________________

But how could it be otherwise? There are almost as many varieties of views as there are people.

So let's say that Truth is one, and is not malleable. Okay. But we are malleable. So how do we move toward the Truth? It seems to me that the greatest barrier to the Truth is those who assume they are already in possession of it. No one is. But we are all called to move toward the Truth. And the journey is never-ending; the mistake is to settle down and stop moving.

I agree that we all have different personal journeys to the Truth, but that is not exactly what I meant. What has been suggested to me is that all paths to God are equal ... in other words, it does not matter if we are Buddhist, or Hindu, or Muslim, or Wicca, or whatever - it is all the same God, they say, so all are equally valid paths to the Truth.

May I ask you if there are any Christian doctrines you would be prepared (assuming any of us have that degree of courage) to die for, eg, the divinity of Jesus Christ? Wouldn't one need to believe that he/she "possessed" the Truth to make this sort of commitment? (The recent story of the Christian arrested in Afghanistan comes to mind).

 

[kenod]

Truth is a symmetry and malleable by anyone... but every action is being recorded and that history is not malleable. Does that address your worry?

Newton was 'flat' wrong when he said, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Action and reaction are NOT equal. Action and reaction are not interchangeable, not repeatable, and not reversible. What Newton meant was, "For every action force there is an equal and opposing reaction force." But there is no tug-o-war that will last for very long.


Your first sentence is called extremism regardless of whether it is the former or the latter.

Nature teaches us that there is only one Truth. Whether we once thought the world was flat, or whether we thought the sun went around the earth, does not matter to Truth.

Our interpretation of the Truth may be malleable, but all Truth, both natural and supernatural, radiates from God, who is eternal and unchanging.

Yes, I know my views are sometimes referred to as "extremism" ... actually, they have been called a lot worse. I'm in good company though, St Paul's views were regarded as heresy, and they cut off his head.

 

[Jeannot]

I agree that we all have different personal journeys to the Truth, but that is not exactly what I meant. What has been suggested to me is that all paths to God are equal ... in other words, it does not matter if we are Buddhist, or Hindu, or Muslim, or Wicca, or whatever - it is all the same God, they say, so all are equally valid paths to the Truth.

May I ask you if there are any Christian doctrines you would be prepared (assuming any of us have that degree of courage) to die for, eg, the divinity of Jesus Christ? Wouldn't one need to believe that he/she "possessed" the Truth to make this sort of commitment? (The recent story of the Christian arrested in Afghanistan comes to mind).

Yes, there are things I would die for. But formal religious doctrines are not among them.

 

[Quahom1]

Truth is absolute. Our perception of it is what is malleable...

v/r

Q

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

I think it is ridiculasly unlikely, but is anyone here consider themselves a fundamentalist christian?

(I would imagine the open minded nature of this site would deter any fundamentalists, but if you are members, please do say so, as I have a lot of questions I would like to put to you.)

Dear Bigmacscanlan,

A very interesting question. I would compare it to a fundamentalist Muslim who follows the teachings of His/Her faith in the (Quaran) & (Hadith) and kills the infidels (Non-Believers). Would this be a good example of fundamentalism but applying this dedicated devotion to what the christian faith teaches?

 

[kenod]

Dear Bigmacscanlan,

A very interesting question. I would compare it to a fundamentalist Muslim who follows the teachings of His/Her faith in the (Quaran) & (Hadith) and kills the infidels (Non-Believers). Would this be a good example of fundamentalism but applying this dedicated devotion to what the christian faith teaches?

I have not read the Quaran or Hadith, but I have been told that no mainstream Islamic teaching condones the likes of 911.

I am a fundamentalist as far as believing the Bible is the infallible Word of God. I am convinced I understand some of the Bible, but I do not claim to understand it all.

The "Christian faith" is very diverse, and has differed in doctrine and practice over time. However, the teachings of Jesus have never changed.

Faith is believing things that we cannot prove. Does the terrorist believe what he is doing is right? I am sure he does ... one is not likely to sacrifice his life unless there is complete faith in what he is doing.

Many Christians have sacrificed their lives for their beliefs ... and still today, in various countries such as China, are persecuted for these beliefs.

As a fundamentalist Christian would I kill others ... yes.
But I would not kill in an attempt to impose my religious beliefs on anyone else. I would kill only to protect.

 

[cyberpi]

Truth is absolute. Our perception of it is what is malleable...
v/r
Q

Then who wrote this extremist line? I author a Truth daily. Doesn't everyone?

The "Christian faith" is very diverse

Is there more than one who defines who a Christian is? There is only one Jesus (pbuh) and one God (swt) right?

Faith is believing things that we cannot prove.

Can you explain parables with your definition? I agree in part, depending on what 'things' you are referring to.

I am a fundamentalist... I believe in the fundamentals: Love, Faith, Truth. I suspect my definition of fundamentalist is not a truth, not in accordance, with the majority.

 

[cyberpi]

Nature teaches us that there is only one Truth. Whether we once thought the world was flat, or whether we thought the sun went around the earth, does not matter to Truth.

Our interpretation of the Truth may be malleable, but all Truth, both natural and supernatural, radiates from God, who is eternal and unchanging.

Yes, I know my views are sometimes referred to as "extremism" ... actually, they have been called a lot worse. I'm in good company though, St Paul's views were regarded as heresy, and they cut off his head.

I disagree. What we believe does matter and it is a Truth. We are not judged solely by our actions and we are not judged solely by our beliefs. I think we are judged by our actions in accordance with our beliefs.

Example: A child recieves many lies. Believing these lies, the child commits a crime. Is the child responsible?

Another example, and I only say this publicly Abogado because it provides a timely example: Abogado del Diablo's avatar is considered an insult to many Muslims, primarily from the Middle East. The left hand is considered unclean, whereas the right is considered the hand to shake with, the hand to reveal to someone, etc... It is often said if you wipe your butt or do something unclean, you use the left hand. Personally, I'm ambidextrous, wash both hands, and don't give a rip, but when placing 'Faith' in others, it is the other person who defines it. With faith the other person defines what an insult is, what is good and bad. When it comes to placing Faith, you are not the author. Perhaps a devil's advocate does reach with his left hand anyway to test you? Either way is Abogado responsible for being insulting? I doubt it. Not responsible until he knows. Belief and action... I don't think we should judge one without the other.

In this way, the Truth that is important is the one we write. By the way, what I have expressed thus far is in the Quran.

This draws together Faith and Truth... if I try to help someone without asking them what is good, then I have NOT placed Faith in them and I am responsible if it goes wrong. If someone asks me for help and I place Faith in them, then my actions may be mine, but the belief for what is good came from the person I wanted to help.

I see that you think God (swt) is the essence of Truth. Perhaps. But there is this hidden misperception that all Truth comes from parents, and only children must place Faith in their parents. In my book THAT IS WRONG. I know in the USA, despite being an alledged democracy, this lie is being repeated between individuals and society, with society being the parent and information supplier, and the individual being the dependent child. As a parent I may judge and teach, but I must place Faith in my children. Which means that I must occasionally drive the car to their destination by their will, instead of my destination by my will. They must be the author of a Truth. The reason I say 'must' is more befitting of a book. I simply ask, how much different is our relationship with God (swt)?

 

[kenod]

What we believe does matter and it is a Truth. We are not judged solely by our actions and we are not judged solely by our beliefs. I think we are judged by our actions in accordance with our beliefs.

I think that is a good point. I believe God is just and He does not condemn us for that which we do not know. However, that does not alter THE Truth. It is eternal and unchanging, as is God. When we believe a lie, that does not make it "our truth" ... it is just our misunderstanding of the Truth.

As a fundamentalist, I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and that It is the Absolute Truth. That does not mean I understand it all, but I still believe It all.

One has to look for a source of Truth, and an authority for Truth, that he can have confidence in. For some, that is themselves, or a spiritual leader, or a particular group/church. For me it is the Holy Scriptures.

 

[wil]

I am a Christian in that I do allow the teachings of Jesus to determine my outlook and behaviour. Jesus did not dictate doctrine and in fact railled against it, particularly the Pharisees, who were famously good at inventing doctrine. I think therefore there is a message completely overlooked.

As for why I am a Christian, that is difficult and due to a combination of factors. I see more at work in the world than rational processes allow explanation of. I also consider the teachings of Jesus extremely wise, even if Victor does think them used out of context.

Some would say I am not a Christian because I do not accept doctrine. I do not reject doctrine but remain uncertain. I keep focussed on what I believe is the more important. Words and deeds, not dogma and salvation shopping lists.

An honest and open mind is all that Jesus asked for. He did not ask for doctrine or scripture outside of the Torah or else He would have written it Himself. He did not ergo it is not necessary.

I think that is a good point. I believe God is just and He does not condemn us for that which we do not know. However, that does not alter THE Truth. It is eternal and unchanging, as is God. When we believe a lie, that does not make it "our truth" ... it is just our misunderstanding of the Truth.

As a fundamentalist, I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and that It is the Absolute Truth. That does not mean I understand it all, but I still believe It all.

One has to look for a source of Truth, and an authority for Truth, that he can have confidence in. For some, that is themselves, or a spiritual leader, or a particular group/church. For me it is the Holy Scriptures.

Over the years, I have always enjoyed the range of thought here. Not that I agree with all, or maybe even many....but the conversation, contemplation and education has been valuable.