Meditation problems

Z

Zenda71

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Hi all.

I'm wondering if the Buddhists on the forum could offer some insight or advice. I've been practicing Vipassana meditation for about 3 years, although more "seriously" (i.e., consistently) for about a year. A few months ago, I kept running into the problem of intense episodes of fear. I stayed with them and they have mostly subsided, although the weird dreams continue.

I often practice on the subway ride to work. (I have a 2 year old son and carving out quiet time to practice is almost impossible. He wakes up when I do, no matter how early, and goes to bed when I do. If I try to meditate with him in the room, he sits in my lap for awhile then gets up and takes my face in his hands and says "Mommy sleepy? Mommy sleepy?" Cute, but kind of distracting ... :D )

The issue isn't the location though. I just gave you that for background. My question is hard to put into words, so I'll try the best I can. I sit there on hte subway (or at home while washing dishes, or whatever) and note the external and internal phenomena in and around me and my reaction to it. Once I get past the "Oh, that makes me happy. That sad. That hurts. That doesn't. Look how I'm noting what I'm feeling. That's not real. And here comes some more ... ", I sort of just slip into this state where I feel kind of blissed out and separated from the events around me. It's pleasant, of course, but when I rouse myself to get off at my stop or stop doing my mundane task to do something more unpredictable (like playing with my son), I start to wonder whether this state is just another illusion that I'm getting caught up in. Maybe it's really a hindrance and not "correct" meditation? Has anyone else encountered this issue?

Z
 
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Namaste Zenda




in any event... it's rather difficult to say with any degree of accuracy based on the information that i have, what would be a good solution... especially since i don't know what type of training you've had in this area.

let me ask you this... have you practiced Samatha meditation yet? Samatha is the calm abiding meditation and it is used in conjunction with Vipassana. in my school, for instance, we emphasize both types of meditation in one session. we start off with Vipassana and when we've developed one-pointed concentration we move into Samatha to calmly abide there.

if you have the time for a text on the subject... i would suggest a book called Stages of Meditation by Kalamishila with a commentary by HH The Dalai Lama.. this is a mid level text and isn't really suited to a beginner... which you are not... so this could be quite valuable to your practice at this time.
 
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Actually, if I may, this sounds quite like what I personally term an "Empathic Experience". It's like being aware - in a very dissociative way - of your connections to everything around you. Sometimes you can almost "see" this in like a translucent mist that touches everything. You can then focus your being - not your mind (or you break the experience) - to feel and touch things around you. A very psychic experience, if I may.

I'm afraid I have no idea of the Buddhism terminology or frames of reference if this is the case. I'm sure it goes under lots of other names. Possibly find the best references to it in Taoism.
 
Thank you both for your insight.

Brian, I don't think this is what I'm experiencing. At least, I haven't explored it as such. It feels more like resting in an inner tube on a river, just sort of floating along in a stream of experience. (Sorry. Can't think of a better analogy ... )

And no, Vaj, I haven't practiced Samatha. My only training has been to follow the breath or metta practice. Thank you very much for the book recommendations. There's always time to read ... :) And yes, it's Zenda. I didn't mean to sign my name. Too much multitasking this morning ... Is there a way to edit my post to take it out?

With metta,
Zenda
 
That makes perfect sense, Zenda71. :)

I usually take this experience to be a form of "greater awareness", and when possible try to make a point of focussing upon a specific issue. Perhaps you could try to think of a particular issue of real personal meaning to yourself, and note to yourself to focus on that when you next relax back into such a state of awareness.

It is very important here to realise that you won't see "Truth" - but the experience can reveal possibilities of truth for you to reflect and muse over for some time after.

A state of being as much as anything else, but one where you can try and tap into the many possibilities of the universe. Beware that these are possible answers, not necessary probable ones.

Of course, you'll probably find that you cannot experience this in the usual "conscious" state - that kills the experience. IT's like thinking with the back of your mind, rather than the usual front.

Just in case you know what I'm talking about. :)

As for editing - bottom right of your own posts will have a little graphic: "edit". Click on that and you should be able to edit your post - though I probably have a feature enabled to prevent editing after a certain period of time to prevent threads becoming too confused as to their subject.
 
Look around.

Zenda71 said:
Hi all.

I'm wondering if the Buddhists on the forum could offer some insight or advice. I've been practicing Vipassana meditation for about 3 years, although more "seriously" (i.e., consistently) for about a year. A few months ago, I kept running into the problem of intense episodes of fear. I stayed with them and they have mostly subsided, although the weird dreams continue.
...
Click to expand...

If you have any problems whatever with meditation, then you might want to consider doing without meditation altogether.

You can look around and see people who are well-adjusted, happy, and productive, leading meaningful lives, without engaging in any meditation practice. They just think intelligently and act according to their best reasons for the best purposes, to do something with their lives.

You might learn things and attain objectives you intend to by meditation, from such people who live without any meditation, but using their mind and exercising their heart, as I said, in the best ways and for the best purposes.

Susma Rio Sep
 
I think I do know what you mean Brian, however, for me it always feel like the front of my head has popped open. Very strange. Oh, and you do have a time limit on editing. Oh well. Let's all just pretend I'm just Zenda, OK?

Susma: An interesting comment. Thanks for making me think in a new way. :)

With metta,
Z
 
Namaste Zenda,


i've edited your posts as you've indicated.

i believe that text will be of some assistance.

Brian is correct when he indicates that there is a correlating expression that is found in Taoist thought as well. depending on one school of Buddhism, they will even use much of the same terminology :)

like any skill, meditation will take time to become proficient. i would like to say that if you have a meditation teacher or if you are a member of a local Sangha, this would properly be something that they should answer as they would, hopefully, be more in tune with your current skill level. as such, i can only make generalized recommendations or comments.

the text from Kalamishila is a Vajrayana text.. so it would be applicable to both the Mahayana and Vajrayana practiconers. the copy that is in English, is the middle of three progressively skillful texts, this is the mid level one.

if you have access to a good book store, you may want to consider a Taoist text on this subject as well. the only issue that i could foresee here is that they use a different system of symbols to communiate with. further, from my observation, they tend to employ terms of phrase that would be well known to ancient Chinese people but not so well known to a modern western reader :) this can present a bit of a problem.

there are several texts that can help... to borrow a phrase... to break open the bones of dogma to reveal the marrow of truth. Taoists are kind of neat like that :)

we can pick up this bit of the disuccsion in the Tao sub forum, if you've an interest.

in any event.. there are a few other Buddhist texts that you may find to be of benefit.

this link will take you to a text that is considered to be the foundational text of Chinese Mahayana Buddhism, the The Dharma Essentials for Cultivating Stopping and Contemplation

this is a bit of a dense text but it may be able to be of some assistance in your practice.
 
Thanks for editing this Vaj. Much appreciated. Regarding the Taoist philosophies, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to provide much conversation since I know virtually nothing about it. However, I would like to learn more.

The Sangha issue is one that I still haven't found a solution too. There are 2 groups in my immediate area but neither has teachers per se. There are lectures, which are often aimed at beginners. One group is very academic in the sense that they meet on a college campus and are interested in textual discussions. Talking about practice is difficult. Often the conversation gets into detailed textual/philosophical stuff that I have not read and can't really follow. Plus I feel that practice is the key, not necessarily intense intellectual discussion. (But maybe this is because I think all day for my job and want to just "experience" for a change.) My innate m.o. is to move from large to small ... from general to subtle. So the discussion of finer points of scripture is lost on me if I am not familiar with it as a whole. Does this make sense?

The second group is primarily a nondenominational meditation group. Very laid back and low key. I'm comfortable there. But again, they don't have a resident teacher.

And of course, the overwhelming problem is time. My husband has a set meeting on Sunday night that is important for him to attend every Sunday. The only other times available with these groups are weeknights, which are tough because I work full time and, although my husband is great with our son, I feel like I can't just leave him to take care of himself and my son one night in the middle of the week. But maybe this is something I can reassess.

Anyway, enough kvetching. Thanks for the advise and recommendations and help with editing my previous post.

With metta,
Z
 
Zenda71 said:
A few months ago, I kept running into the problem of intense episodes of fear. I stayed with them and they have mostly subsided, although the weird dreams continue.
Hello

This sounds fascinating!

My opinion is that you are progressing very well in meditation.
Do you know anything about the ego-self? It's that part of you which keeps you buzzing. The part of the psyche which requires that you impress people, place importance on yourself and your life. Essentially it's that part that if you didn't have, you would feel far more connected with everyone else and nature and far more interested in helping other people since you consider them your 'self'. It's your sense of identity, of 'I'.

I am so pleased to here this.
The fear is a very clear indicator that you are progressing. It tells you that you are at the brink of discovering the ego, which ultimately means it's destruction (not really destruction, but rather debilitation.) Once you discover it, it losing it's power, so it needs to hide. It hides by making you fearful when you approach it.

Your meditation has increased so that you are now discerning what is real and what is fabricated by this ego-self.

There are 3 important qualities of reality which the Buddha expressed.
The first was that things are impermanent. The second, that there is no self. The third, that there is suffering.

Your meditating with Vipassana is actually the meditation of impermanence. You see how things change, forever evolving, nothing permanent.
Tho you may not be aware, this understanding has spilt over into understanding yourself, or should I say, your self.

Wow! I'm so happy for you!

The Buddha said that understanding each of these qualities helps the understanding of the others.

Taking refuge is important as it allows you to feel secure when this fear arises. It is a place of safety.
Your meditation is leading you to places further and further away from normal everyday reality. Deeper and deeper into the sub-consciousness.
This is why it is important to take refuge.

In the Vajrayana tradition, one practises Guru Yoga which helps immensely as you feel supported by the lineage and all the past Lamas, teachers, Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, Dakas, Dakinis, etc.
It's important to have that support for deep meditation.

Keep going! Few people have got where you are.
Click to expand...
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zenmonk_genryu said:
Me too if it helps. ;)
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Namaste,

you know... when i first realized that i was serious about this it became quite clear that i really needed to understand the terms and symbolic language that was used.. not to mention the cultural idioms that are used to convey alot of the teaching.... i spent the first year of my study, and it was that... not a bit of actual practice :) in any event... i simply read the encylcopedias and other texts that explained the word and concept, idiom, symbolic language, metaphor and so forth.

oddly enough.. i find that the Chinese method of expression to be quite in tune with my understanding.

i suppose that i should come clean... i'm really a closet Taoist by inclination of practice.... which, incidently, is why i can practice Vajrayana Buddhism ;)

i found it difficult, living in America, to find a qualified master of the school of Taoism that i happen to practice. to my great delight and joy, once i understood the symbology of the Vajrayana, especially the forms found in Tibet, i realized that here was a more accessible form of practice that was, with some variations, the same as my Tao practice. futher, there are qualifed instructors in the United States :)

this may be due to the fact that spoken Tibetan and Chinese are from the same language root, Tibetan-Sino.

here's a neat link for those readers that are interested:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=872

i've posted some of the explanations of the symbolic language of Taoist Spiritual Alchemy in this thread:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503

if you would be interested in reading about that sort of thing.
 
I too have Taoist inclinations.
Taoism (philosophical Taoism) set me off on my spiritual journey, and to its credit, I have yet to find a theory/frame of mind/understanding more compelling. What Taoism lacks is a method. Its got everything else, but when it comes to implementing, Buddhism flies high above the rest.
It's got the methods.

I can't think how the hell Lao Tzu came to such profound realisations as he did, but he seems to have been pretty much alone. There were enough people interested in Spirituality in India at the time of the Buddha so that what the Buddha found could be spread and taught.

I think the Buddha found what he was looking for and so he knew what to do with it, whereas Lao Tzu just stubbled across it.
 
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