Baha'i, Hell, and Judgement

[iBrian]

We touched upon a subject in another post that I'd like to explore more properly here:

In simple terms, what is the Baha'i approach to Hell and Judgement?

I ask because Baha'is seem to see themselves as primarily a continuation of the Abramic line of prophecy, but in both the Christian and Islamic branches there seem to be reasonably clear ideas of Hell and moral Judgement of the dead.

How do Baha'i ideas of such compare?

 

[arthra]

We touched upon a subject in another post that I'd like to explore more properly here:

In simple terms, what is the Baha'i approach to Hell and Judgement?

I ask because Baha'is seem to see themselves as primarily a continuation of the Abramic line of prophecy, but in both the Christian and Islamic branches there seem to be reasonably clear ideas of Hell and moral Judgement of the dead.

How do Baha'i ideas of such compare?

Well Brian thanks for the questions and a deep thanks also for this new Baha'i section!

I'll let some of my friends know about it and invite them to participate!

I'll be happy to respond to these questions that you've also been kind enough to ask, but be aware these are my own reflections and are not official Baha'i views. Our Writings are the last authority for us so if questions ever arise we all resort to the Writings and resolve our issues there. But here are my own responses:

Most Baha'is would feel that heaven and hell are not specific places or locations. We tend to look on them as allegorical spiritual states rather than being interpreted as literal places ....

So heaven is nearness to God and hell is being away from God....

The Judgement Day is for us not an absolute time in the future so much as the current time when people are weighed by their response to the new Manifestation of God and His teachings....so those who reject Him are automatically judged by that.... but that's not to say that people cannot later change their response and accept it.... or be forgiven for persecuting the Cause and be accepted if they repent of what they've done...

We feel all the religions have offered salvation and peace to those who have accepted them and that no one who has in the past supported them are in any way in a hell .....

We see the Baha'i Faith as being in the same tradition of past religions so we accept the Qur'an and the Bible and past dispensations such as Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hinduism.... So there as only been inour view one religion over time only revealed through different Manifestations of God as appropriate for the times and conditions necessary.

- Art

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, greetings!

This will in part overlap some of what Art said, but I hope it will provide a reasonably complete picture of the Baha'i views of these topics.

First, the Baha'i Faith teaches that, for the individual, this life is a time of acquiring spiritual qualities in preparation for the next life. Just as a child in its mother's womb is acquiring the physical tools it will need here (and will be handicapped here if it fails to do so), we are acquiring the spiritual tools needed after death; and failure to do this now will hurt us then. Existence--here and after death--is a gradual process of spiritual growth, of drawing closer to God. (We never attain the station of God or "become Gods.") And while we have no specific details about the next life, our scriptures tell us that it will be inexpressibly wonderful! Our circumstances after death are thus a direct consequence of the choices we make or don't make in this life about our spiritual development.

Heaven and hell are conditions (spiritual nearness to God/separation from God), not places.

As such, they exist here and now as well as after death; and we are each in one or the other right now as a function of where our heads are at!

And as Art mentioned, "Judgement Day," like "the Day of Resurrection," refers to the time when a new Divine Messenger appears on earth and every individual has the choice of recognizing and following Him or not.

Best!

Bruce

 

[inquirer]

Is any soul lost, cast off, or tormented forever?

 

[arthra]

Is any soul lost, cast off, or tormented forever?

Well thanks for posting Inquirer and welcome to the Forum.. and indirectly thanks for reviving an ancient thread away back seven years ago!

Now you ask about the soul and whether it can be "cast off or tormented forever"..

I think behind your question maybe some underlying theological issues of past ages.. but here let me cite some sources from the Baha'i Writings on the subject:

Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 125

You will find references to Hell and so forth in the writings but these are not based in my view on many of the past theological concepts people associate with them nowadays.

Now as to Judgement..again there have been theological ideas associated with "Judgement":

He hath laid down the foundations of the lofty Citadel, He hath inaugurated the Cycle of Glory, He hath brought forth a new creation on this day that is clearly Judgement Day -- and still do the heedless stay fast in their drunken sleep.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 13

"...for the foundation is spiritual feelings and merciful sentiments. I hope that you may be favored therewith. But the lack of capacity and merit in the Day of Judgement does not prevent one from bounty and generosity, for it is the day of grace and not justice, and to give every one his due is justice. Consequently, do not look upon thy capacity, nay, rather, look upon the infinite grace of the Bounty of ABHA whose grace is comprehending and whose bounty is perfect.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 243

"... Concerning the meaning of 'Resurrection: although this term is often used by Bahá'u'lláh in His Writings, as in the passage quoted in your letter, its meaning is figurative. The tomb mentioned is also allegorical, i.e. the tomb of unbelief. The Day of Resurrection is according to Bahá'í interpretation, is the judgement Day, the Day when unbelievers will be called upon to give account of their actions, and whether the world has prevented them from acknowledging the new Revelation."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, Dawn of a New Day, p. 79)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 481)

"It is certainly a much greater responsibility to reject the Manifestation in this day than it was in the past Dispensations, inasmuch as man, and indeed humanity as a whole, have been endowed with a greater measure of spiritual receptivity than ever before, and consequently it would be a much graver sin to repudiate the revealed Truth now than it would have been the case in by-gone ages and centuries."

(From a letter written on behalf of Guardian to an individual believer, November 14, 1939)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 479)



So the Baha'i perspective is different from what has been the theological views of the past in my view.

 

[BruceDLimber]

And there's this, also from the Baha'i scriptures:

"When they [men] are delivered through the light of faith from the darkness of these vices, and become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment ... is to be subjected to the world of nature, to be veiled from God, to be brutal and ignorant, to fall into carnal lusts, to be absorbed in animal frailties, to be characterized with dark qualities ... these are the greatest punishments and tortures....

"...The rewards of the other world are the perfections and the peace obtained in the spiritual worlds after leaving this world ... the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. In the same way the punishments of the other world ... consist in being deprived of the special divine blessings and the absolute bounties, and falling into the lowest degrees of existence. He who is deprived of these divine favours, although he continues after death, is considered as dead by the people of truth.

"The wealth of the other world is nearness to God. Consequently it is certain that those who are near the Divine Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by God....

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications."
―Some Answered Questions, p. 274

Best!

Bruce

 

[inquirer]

Thank you.

But will all souls progress?

Don't Bahai's believe that Bahá’u’lláh was the incarnation (or manefestation) of the Holy Spirit, and that rejecting him as a false prophet or anti-Christ (as most Christians and Muslims who've heard of him have done, either implicitely or explicitely) is an unpardonable sin?

Is there any hope for those souls?

 

[arthra]

Inquirer you may be interested in the following:

Question. -- Through what means will the spirit of man -- that is to say, the rational soul -- after departing from this mortal world, make progress?

Answer. -- The progress of man's spirit in the divine world, after the severance of its connection with the body of dust, is through the bounty and grace of the Lord alone, or through the intercession and the sincere prayers of other human souls, or through the charities and important good works which are performed in its name.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 239

Baha'is don't believe in the idea that say some Christians accept that Jesus was God incarnate..What we believe is that God is manifest in perfect Exemplars such as Jesus. We call this concept Manifestation of God.

 

[inquirer]

So is there any sin that Bahai's consider unpardonable?

Is it possible that all souls will eventually be saved?

 

[arthra]

So is there any sin that Bahai's consider unpardonable?

Is it possible that all souls will eventually be saved?

Again you ask some great questions inquirer!

I think maybe in your question there is a background in the terms "unpardonable sin" and of course "being saved" also has a lot of implications for people.

When I was first introduced to Baha'is a long time ago I rarely heard the term "sin" used that much or "salvation"..these words are the words I used to hear in some churches I visited.

But anyway let's look at them in a Baha'i context.

Now here's an interesting quote and it contains some of the same words that are familiar to many Christians:

Abdul-Baha is quoting Baha'u'llah:

"My captivity is not My abasement: by My life, it is indeed a glory unto Me! But the abasement is the action of My friends who connect themselves with Us and follow the devil in their actions. Amongst them is he who taketh lust and turneth aside from what is commanded; and amongst them is he who followeth the truth in right guidance. As for those who commit sin and cling to the world they are assuredly not of the people of Baha."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveller's Narrative, p. 42

Here's a passage where Abdul-Baha uses the term "unpardonable sin"...

"...it is enjoined upon the father and mother, as a duty, to strive with all effort to train the daughter and the son, to nurse them from the breast of knowledge and to rear them in the bosom of sciences and arts. Should they neglect this matter, they shall be held responsible and worthy of reproach in the presence of the stern Lord.

"This is a sin unpardonable, for they have made that poor babe a wanderer in the Sahara of ignorance, unfortunate and tormented; to remain during a lifetime a captive of ignorance and pride, negligent and without discernment."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith p. 398

But I would say that the "unpardonable sin" for most Christians is probably the sin against the Holy Spirit.

So terms like sin, the devil and unpardonable sin are found.

But in the Baha'i context there is no original sin as it's commonly referred to..The following passage relates:

"But the mass of the Christians believe that, as Adam ate of the forbidden tree, He sinned in that He disobeyed, and that the disastrous consequences of this disobedience have been transmitted as a heritage and have remained among His descendants. Hence Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. This explanation is unreasonable and evidently wrong, for it means that all men, even the Prophets and the Messengers of God, without committing any sin or fault, but simply because they are the posterity of Adam, have become without reason guilty sinners, and until the day of the sacrifice of Christ were held captive in hell in painful torment. This is far from the justice of God. If Adam was a sinner, what is the sin of Abraham? What is the fault of Isaac, or of Joseph? Of what is Moses guilty?"

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 119

Let's look at salvation...

"O Thou Who art the Lord of Lords! I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 242

It does seem here that as revealed by Baha'u'llah, God's desire is the salvation of all them that dwell therein." applies to everyone. Salvation is also connected to the regeneration of the whole world and the establishment of the unity of its peoples..

Let's see how the term "devil" used in a Baha'i context:

"Regarding your question relative to the condition of those people who are described in the Gospel as being possessed of devils; this should be interpreted figuratively; devil or Satan is symbolic of evil and dark forces yielding to temptation."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 2, 1938: Spiritualism, Psychic Phenomena and Related Subjects, p. 4)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 513)

 

[BruceDLimber]

Unpardonable sin is also addressed in "Some Answered Questions," where 'Abdu'l-Baha explains that "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" refers not to rejecting a particular Divine Messenger who brings the Light, but hatred of the Light itself.

You can find that passage here:

Bahá'í Library Online

by clicking "Writings" and then "Some Answered Questions."

Peace,

Bruce

 

[arthra]

Right.. Here's the quote from Some Answered Questions:

Question. -- "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." --
(Matt. 12:31-32)

Answer. -- The holy realities of the Manifestations of God have two spiritual positions. One is the place of manifestation, which can be compared to the position of the globe of the sun, and the other is the resplendency of the manifestation, which is like its light and radiance; these are the perfections of God -- in other words, the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit is the divine bounties and lordly perfections, and these divine perfections are as the rays and heat of the sun. The brilliant rays of the sun constitute its being, and without them it would not be the sun. If the manifestation and the reflection of the divine perfections were not in Christ, Jesus would not be the Messiah. He is a Manifestation because He reflects in Himself the divine perfections. The Prophets of God are manifestations for the lordly perfections -- that is, the Holy Spirit is apparent in Them.

If a soul remains far from the manifestation, he may yet be awakened; for he did not recognize the manifestation of the divine perfections. But if he loathe the divine perfections themselves -- in other words, the Holy Spirit -- it is evident that he is like a bat which hates the light.

This detestation of the light has no remedy and cannot be forgiven -- that is to say, it is impossible for him to come near unto God. This lamp is a lamp because of its light; without the light it would not be a lamp. Now if a soul has an aversion for the light of the lamp, he is, as it were, blind, and cannot comprehend the light; and blindness is the cause of everlasting banishment from God.

It is evident that the souls receive grace from the bounty of the Holy Spirit which appears in the Manifestations of God, and not from the personality of the Manifestation. Therefore, if a soul does not receive grace from the bounties of the Holy Spirit, he remains deprived of the divine gift, and the banishment itself puts the soul beyond the reach of pardon.

This is why many people who were the enemies of the Manifestations, and who did not recognize Them, when once they had known Them became Their friends. So enmity toward the Manifestation did not become the cause of perpetual banishment, for they who indulged in it were the enemies of the light-holders, not knowing that They were the shining lights of God. They were not the enemies of the light, and when once they understood that the light-holder was the place of manifestation of the light, they became sincere friends of it.

The meaning is this: to remain far from the light-holder does not entail everlasting banishment, for one may become awakened and vigilant; but enmity toward the light is the cause of everlasting banishment, and for this there is no remedy.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 126

 

[inquirer]

So Baha'is don't believe in the possibility that all souls will be saved?

Some will be banished forever because they hate the light?

 

[arthra]

So Baha'is don't believe in the possibility that all souls will be saved?

Some will be banished forever because they hate the light?

I sincerely hope that the following will work for you!

From the Baha'i Writings:

You ask if, through the appearance of the kingdom of God, every soul hath been saved. The Sun of Reality hath appeared to all the world. This luminous appearance is salvation and life; but only he who hath opened the eye of reality and who hath seen these lights will be saved.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 389

Here's another:
Therefore, even as was the case in the past, the world of humanity cannot be saved from the darkness of nature, and cannot attain illumination, except through the abandonment of prejudices and the acquisition of the morals of the Kingdom....

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 29

 

[BruceDLimber]

And the Baha'i scriptures also say this:

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications."
―Some Answered Questions, p. 274.

Peace,

Bruce

[This is unfortunately a duplicate message, but the system won't seem to let me delete it, so I guess we're stuck with it.]

 

[iBrian]

So what's the straight answer to the question, please?

 

[arthra]

We touched upon a subject in another post that I'd like to explore more properly here:

In simple terms, what is the Baha'i approach to Hell and Judgement?

I ask because Baha'is seem to see themselves as primarily a continuation of the Abramic line of prophecy, but in both the Christian and Islamic branches there seem to be reasonably clear ideas of Hell and moral Judgement of the dead.

How do Baha'i ideas of such compare?

Brian,

Thanks for your post.

I sincerely thought I had responded away back there in 2004...I would say you can find terms in the Baha''i Writings like "judgement" and "hell" but for us they are NOT the same as in say traditional theology.

Here's an example of how the word "hell" is used:

"The divine Prophets came to establish the unity of the Kingdom in human hearts. All of them proclaimed the glad tidings of the divine bestowals to the world of mankind. All brought the same message of divine love to the world. Jesus Christ gave His life upon the cross for the unity of mankind. Those who believed in Him likewise sacrificed life, honor, possessions, family, everything, that this human world might be released from the hell of discord, enmity and strife."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 5)

I think for Baha'is the "discord, enmity and strife" in life would indeed be a "hell".

Here's an example of the use of "judgement" and here it is "Judgement Day":

"The people aforetime joined partners with God, though they professed belief in His unity; and although they were the most ignorant amongst men, they considered themselves the most accomplished. But, as a token of divine retribution upon those heedless ones, their erroneous beliefs and pursuits have, in this Day of Judgement, been made clear and evident to every man of discernment and understanding."

~ Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 124

So today this is the "Day of Judgement" and not something like that mentioned by some who thought it was postponed for a later date.. likewise images of the stars falling and so on are viewed by us as metaphorical in nature..

I wanted to ask Brian if your slogan "peace, love and unity" is a new one you've recently adopted?

 

[iBrian]

Sorry, I was referring to the more recent posts, not my own.

Sometimes when quotes from Baha'ulla'h are posted it can make it harder to discern the actual doctrine preached, hence my comment - ie, there is what was written down, and there is the doctrinal position.