CONCEPT OF GOD IN Islam and Hinduism

sangam said:
al Quran, surah Noor: God is the Light of the heavens and the earth:the likeness of his light is as a niche wherein is a lamp (the lamp is a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither of the east nor of the west whose oil wellnigh shine, even if no fire touched it: Light upon light (God guides to his light whom He will).

Of course I dont understand Arabic- this is a translation provided by my friend who can.

interpretation: this Surah is alway interpreted as a parable, usually as follows: in this verse imagery is used 'as if' to convey both the ineffable nature of the godhead and also the 'peace' (salaam) which comes by 'seeing' the 'light' of this godhead. it is also meant to convey the incomprehensible transcendence and 'otherness' of God. i am being brief because you would be familiar with various interpretations of this surah or would be able to find out from the sources from where you have been copy-pasting stuff.

however, what you will never know is that this surah is one of the most beautiful description of the vision of godhead that appears before the closed eyes when one is in deep meditation. the sufis know of it i am sure but not the people who spout vitriol about how great islam is and how irrelevant other paths to spirituality are.

similarly, the other religious texts in general and the ancient hindu texts in particular are full of condensed symbolic descriptions of experiences from the depth of meditation. few can understand them.

if you are interested in outward labored mentations on the 'logical' understanding of God and which 'book' is the greatest etc, it is your choice and I respect that. there is merit in it. it is good mental exercise to say the least.

but if you are interested in God, there are only two ways I know of that can be of help (there would undoubtedly be infinite ways of reaching out to that which is infinite but these are the the two ways i can tell you about). one is to take yourself to a secluded spot and spent eons looking into the substance of your mind- like buddha, christ and many others beside who are lesser known did. as long as it takes, till the mind falls away and you are able to see that which lies behind, that which is described in the Surah Noor. second is to find a person who has already seen that light and fall on his feet. beg him to show you the path he knows and to help you walk on that path. there are such people out there but you wont find them advertising themselves. forget whether he is a hindu, muslim, buddhist or christian. for such a man has crossed over to the other side. he is beyond religions. he is same as HIM.

as for the 'concept' of god in any religion. it is impossible to have any concept. mind and intellect are limited, they essentially cannot contain the concept of infinite. just like a small vessel can hold some water....the same substance that the oceans are made of, but cannot contain the ocean itself. we can only allude to 'God' and that too only in a very small part indeed.

one can learn a lot from reading a little, or learn nothing from reading a lot........

om shanti
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I do not understood you because you made it so complex for me to understand me English as said above is not so God what i said i wil reply okay!!

If you do not know what is or you do not understand what is meant by something then how could you believe in that religion!!! I do not see anything much complex in your scriptures its easy to understand!!!

Yes you are right about example you gave me the thing is it is clear in the context if you read it!! Suffism is something else and getting basic knowledge of a religion is something else!! if you do not understand the basic teachings of a religion how would you come to know about the religion then!!!
 
Hello Islamis4u...

I will try to answer your question...

Yes, you are right, Hinduism is often thought of as a pantheistic system, and not a monotheistic religion, but a lot of hindu's believe in one God... an Ultimate God, if you like... yes, some hindu's might say that there are 33 thousand gods, but ultimately, they are all just expressions, or incarnations, or avatars, of one God...

Take for example, Krsna...

Some hindu's say Krsna is an avatar, or incarnation, of another God, called Vishnu...

But some other hindu's would say all Gods are an incarnation of Krsna...

Some hindu's see Krsna as a minor deity, mainly because Krsna does not appear in any of the major Vedas or Upanisads, and in an ancient historial sense he appears in around two small unimportant texts from a specific region, and so intellectuals think he was a minor villiage God who became popular over time...

However, if you are a devotee of Krsna, that he does not appear using his real name in the Vedas is unimportant, as all of the other Gods are just emanations of Krsna...

So... although the system is described as pantheistic, it is not always that way....
 
Dear islamis4u,

The concept of God for Hindus does not come from religious texts. We do not rely on books to tell us about God. Ofcourse they do help us, but they are not the final authority.

The concept of God comes from within each one of us and from the the gurus and seers who have come to know God.

God is an individual perception and We all experience God's love and presence in our lives in our own way. It is perfectly okay for us to not believe in God at all, or believe that God is one or even to believe in 33 crore Gods. There is no right or wrong way of knowing God. God does not get offended by our imagination. When we try to reach him, He will come to us in a form that we understand.
 
This subject has entered my mind over the last few years for various reasons. From another perspective... question Islam:

Why does Allah (swt) refer to Allah (swt) as WE in the Qur'an? I have searched the Arabic roots for understanding and I have heard what I view are false reasons from other muslims. There is an I, and there is a WE, and both exist in the Qur'an in first person... albeit paraphrased by the Prophet Muhammud (pbuh). The "WE" in one form used by a group of men is the same "WE" used by Allah (swt) to refer to himself. The Qur'an further teaches the Muslim to say, "WE believe... " When speaking from the Qur'an, or a document, or a group of individuals who are joined together in heart and mind, then saying "WE" begins to make perfect sense when a member speaks outside of the group. However for individuals to then assert their individual, differentiated or independent beliefs upon others, I personally consider it a sin within their mind when they say "WE". When a man says "WE", it reveals to me that the individual thinks that other individuals think the same; however, if the relationship is not really physically there or the individual is merely trying to propagate their individual beliefs, then it is appears to me as a bit of a falsehood. I can also tell the person who copies and pastes (mechanically or intellectually), rather than utilizing their own will and mind, when they use the word "WE". Neither the Prophet Muhammud (pbuh), nor Isa (pbuh), nor any other Abrahamic prophet or messenger ever refers to himself and Allah (swt) together as "WE". At best in Christianity, Jesus (pbuh) in the gospels says, "The Father and I are one"... yet he also differentiates the will of God and the will of Jesus: "I did not come to do my will, but to do my Father's will". Some there view a marriage or relationship, some view god in the flesh, etc... which is a bit of contention between the Abrahamic religions.

So then I pose this question: which is Allah (swt) when Allah (swt) refers to Allah (swt): is it: I, WE, or both?
 
Its majestic we. Very common in Arabic, Persian & Urdu-Hindi. In India, there was a time when everybody called everybody we. Nowadays I/you is more common. But people still use this royal we for honour.

I think in the same way, Eloh becomes Elohim.
 
farhan thank you for providing the commonly exchanged reason.

I question though: Why at the time when everyone allegedly referred to themselves as WE.... did Allah (swt) transgress the royal WE and refer to self as I ?

For example: 2:33, 3:55, 3:56, 4:118, 4:119, 5:12, 5:110, 5:115, 19:9.

I don't know the other languages but Arabic differentiates singular and plural. I see both.
 
Its not that everybody does or doesnt refer to himself in plural. Arabic grammer allows to refer to one self as I, we or he. This is a style of speech, not a transgression, since grammer allows it all. When the topic being talked about is something ordinary (eg,"I am telling you...... ") , a king may refer to himself in 1st person singular. To show some majesty, we can be used (eg, "we are indeed delighted"). To show a lot of majesty, & a little bit of detachment (eg. "whatever you do, it makes no difference to the holly one"), third person singular can also be used.

All languages (except chinese may be) differentiate between singular & plural. But at the same time, we are trained by our societies to decode the meaning in different ways, so our brains register words differently. I gave the example of Urdu because thats my native language. Other than plural of majesty, we also have plural of honour. Interestingly that plural of majesty/honour can easily be changed into plural of ridicule/contempt with a slight change of tone. But it isnt a big deal for us since our brains are trained to pick & process all that information at the sub-conscious level. For a mind trained in English, all that implicit data creates a lot of problem.
 
islamis4u said:
Then you say that your holy books are wrong?
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Islam propagated the Quran very early on to all Muslims [well, the ones who could read];this was helped by ilm, or the 'knowledge' industry, when Islam were reproducing/translating all the ancient texts when Europe was in the 'dark' ages,whereas the ancient sacred Hindu texts was always in the hands of the practicing priests, the Brahmins who appropriated the power in the sacred chants to themselves. This revealed authority is called Shruti.

However there is also the authority of traditonal handed down 'revealed' knowledge, but of human composition, called Smriti and it is this that most Hindus are familiar, since these were handed down by storytellers, much like the poets in Arabia were revered pre-Quran as bringers of truth.

This developed into Sampradaya, oral tradition centered around a guru generation to generation, not necessarily from a Brahmin family, but like sufis who realised they had found a way to reach the divine without the priesthood.

Unlike Islam, which like the other Abrahamic religions, clearly demarcated the Creator from the creatures and creation, Hinduism believes in Satkaryavada, 'the effect pre exists in the cause', therefore no creation ex nihilo, nothing can come from nothing [heres nothing again!].

They believe there is many paths [margas or yogas] to g#d or ultimate Reality - jnana, knowledge [ultimate aim to detach eternal self from temporary one]
- karma [detachment of ones self from ones actions, or putting ones actions to the services of ones manifestation of the one g#d].
- bhakti [devotion, not identity or union but nearness, ie through love]
- raja ['royal', essentially path of mediation though above paths may well include meditation as well as body yoga as a means of alignment]
[above para from uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet/er/hinduism]

'the way to devotion is as good as the way of knowledge, but as long as g#d keeps the feeling of ego in us, it is easier to follow the path of devotion' Ramakrishna
 
Tao_Equus said:
Of course he does not...are you stupid? He says they offer guidance...not law.... can you get your head round that?
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I don't know what to say to your behavior but for your kind comment or post he or she said that it is not final authority then it triggers a question in ones mind that what he meant like is it wrong then or their is doubt like Quran we say it is final authority whatever is in it we believe in Quran with no arguments..

at the same time it was question rather then some answer....
 
islamis4u said:


The most popular amongst the Aryan religion is Hinduism
1.Common concept of God in Hinduism:
If you ask a common Hindu that how many Gods he believe in, some may say three some may say thirty three, some may say a thousand while some may say thirty three crore i.e. 330 millions. But if you ask this question to a Hindu learned man who is well Versed with the Hindu scriptures, he will reply that the Hindu should actually believe and worship only one God.
2.Difference between Islam and Hinduism is ‘s’
(Everything is ‘God’s’ - everything is ‘God’):
The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim is that the common Hindu believes in philosophy of Pantheism i.e. everything is God, the tree is God, the sun is God, the moon is God, the snake is God, the monkey is God, the human being is God.
The Muslims believe that everything is God’s. God with and apostrophe ‘s’. Everything belongs to God, the tree belongs to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, monkey belongs to God, the human being belongs to God.
Thus the major difference between the Hindus and the Muslims is the apostrophe ‘s’. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God’s, God with an apostrophe ‘s’. If we can solve the difference of the apostrophe ‘s’, the Hindus and the Muslims will be united.
The Holy Qur’an says, “Come to common terms as between us and you”, which is the first term? “That we worship none but Allah”, so lets come to common terms by analyzing the scripture of the Hindus and the Muslim.
3.Bhagwad Geeta 7:20
The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagwad Geeta. Bhagwad Geeta mentions in Chapter 7, Verse 20, “Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods” that is “Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods” i.e. besides the true God.
4.Upanishad
Upanishad are also one of the sacred scriptures of the Hindus.
(i) Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1
It is mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad, Prapathaka(Chapter) 6, Khanda(Section)2, Shloka(Verse) “Ekam evaditiyam”, “He is one only without a second”.
The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan, page 447 and 448(sacred books of the east Volume 1 the Upanishads, part I, page 93)
a)(ii) Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, “Say he is Allah one and only”.
b) (i) Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9
It is mentioned in the Svetasvatara Upanishad, Adhyaya(Chapter) 6, Shloka(Verse) 9, “Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah” “Of him there is neither parents nor lord”.
“na tasya kascit patir asti loke, na cesita naiva ca tasya lingam, na karanam karanadhipadhipo na casya kascij janita na cadhipah”.
“Of him there is no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there any mark of him. He is the cause, the lord of the lords of the sense organs; of him there is neither progenitor nor lord”.
(The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745 and in sacred books of the east Volume 15, the Upanishads, part II, page 263)
(ii) Similar message is given in Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 3,
“He begets not, nor is he begotten”.
(i) In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19
It is mentioned in Svetasvatara Upanishad, Adhyaya(Chapter) 4, Shloka(Verse) 19,
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Hey, pls dont utter rubbish, you are making use of Hindu scripture in a wrong way to fool ignorant peoples. For spiritual purpose for Hindus have only one God. All other are dieties, like god for wealth, god for health, god for prosper etc, they have nothing to do with spirituality, infact they are related to material needs. Ganapati, Saraswati, etc are such gods, all know for what reasons they are worshipped.

And pls dont compare the impersonal god in Hinduism with that of allah in Islam. The impersonal aspect of god in hinduism is formless, nameless etc, but what about allah in Islam? how the formless god have name? who pronounced the word allah without having tongue?

And also history of Hinduism goes pasts more than 10000 years, it is Hindus who found the formless aspect of god first, Islam religion is found only nearly some 1500 years back i think.
 
islamis4u said:
Then you say that your holy books are wrong?
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Hello islamis4u,

I will not be able to tell you if the concept of God defined in the Vedas are right or wrong, because I have not "attained" God myself - meaning I have not "seen" God. Until I do, I have to take the existence of God on my faith alone.

Hindus do not have to believe whatever is written in the holy books as infallible truth. The books, seers and gurus can guide us, and yet each one of us has to "find out" the truth for ourselves to attain "moksha".
 
islamis4u said:
I don't know what to say to your behavior but for your kind comment or post he or she said that it is not final authority then it triggers a question in ones mind that what he meant like is it wrong then or their is doubt like Quran we say it is final authority whatever is in it we believe in Quran with no arguments..

at the same time it was question rather then some answer....
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God has given every person infinite ability to think and to feel. If there is a thought in our holy scriptures that does not sit right with us we are not "forced" to accept it. We are allowed to question and even challenge the scriptures. Ultimately, we need to understand God through our own feelings, thoughts and experiences.
 
When I came across Hinduism through Yoga and other practice and reading, I was lucky enough to learn about Brahman (The Absolute) and Atman (which some Christians might interpret as 'soul'). Vedanta seemed to be a very comprehensive philosophy. However no 'teachings' or holy book claim to have been written by Brahman.
However Allah (God) appears to be very different. The claim is, I believe that The Koran is written/inspired, and is regarded by believers as absolutely indisputable truth. This is totally different from Hindu ideas.
Later I learnt that the typical person to whom the name Hindu is applied had all sorts of beliefs relating to caste and religious worship. In essence, what appear to be idols or gods are supposed to represent Brahma, at a more meaningful level for most people. I'm not particularly intelligent, but Brahman is enough for me. I need no temples, or shrines in my home, yet I can meditate on most occasions if I wish!
In fact Muslims and Hindus do seem to have routines and times for prayer, which are ordered, depending on the sect or group to which they belong. Someone seems to be exerting control, or earning money perhaps?
 
God per orthodox Hindu Scripture says that Brahman is originally the absolute Truth Incarnate, namely, THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.

Furthermore, orthodox Hindu Scripture says that Brahman is a person [aka GOD] who is transcendent to Time & Material Matter; living an independent life allof from the trappings of souls miss-using their Free-will to conquer all they survey while alive in each birth after birth since time immemorial until escape from such a cycle of repeated 'chewing-the-Chewed-karma' mode of living arrives at the "Absolute Truth"

Aside from the reality of an Absolute Personality of Godhead as revealed in the Vedic Liteeratures of Ancient India ---there is subjective experiences, that incidently, are the same for all consumers.

One Absolute size fits all sentient beings pre-occupations.
 
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