Bible Truths

[Azure24]

Hi all,

Before I go on to say why I have made this thread, let me just say ULTIMATELY only God can make one understand, because in all honesty NO ONE understands God. This morning I have prayed, I have prayed for all who do not understand the scriptures, that God will make them see the truth. Believe me I don't fully understand God, I only understand what God has shown me through the scriptures. I do not make judgments on anyone, obviously that is not up to me. But I will show everyone here on this board what I have studied in the scriptures as it hurts me when someone is mislead. Feel free to dispute with me...

The term "Eternal life" is unscriptual in the Bible. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. "Eternal life" in it's proper wording is "Eonian life".

Let me give you passage:

John 3:36

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

This indeed is a mistake. Highlight John 3:36 and go to Bible gateway. Now, most Bibles will give "the above quote" or replace "Eternal" with "everlasting". Now, "everlasting" is a contradiction in itself... If it is "EVER" (forever) then how can it be "LASTING" (to last). But how ever some Bibles (in Bible gateway) have to proper meaning for example let me show you what the same passage says in Young's Literal translation:

"he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him."

"Eonian life" is life for the eons or life for the ages. However long the eons or ages are, that's how long eonian or age-abiding life is. Then what?

Here's why unlearned theologians say this is not possible, because after the ages or eons, we would all die. NOT TRUE!

Let me illustrate. Suppose your company is going to buy you and everyone in your company an all-expense paid trip to Europe for one month. EVERYBODY gets that trip. However, because you are such a fabulous worker and such a asset to the company, your boss is going to send you on a trip to Europe for three whole weeks BEFORE everyone else goes on their trip. This is a SPECIAL, BONUS trip. Not many get to go on THIS particular bonus trip, only a few.

Now then, you get to go THREE WEEKS earlier than the rest. When they arrive, you have already been their enjoying yourself for THREE WEEKS. So when the others arrive to begin their vacation, does your vacation END? No. Only your "three week" vacation ends. But you CONTINUE to vacation in Europe just as long as the rest.Your hotel reservation is not cancelled after three weeks.

That is not a perfect illustration, but maybe you get the point. "Aionion" or "Age-lasting life" is a SPECIAL gift from God that only a relatively FEW ever receive. It is LIFE in God's Kingdom BEFORE the masses are brought into God's Kingdom. What allows those who are given "eonian life" to continue living even AFTER the eons are past, is not the promise from God of "eternal life" but rather "IMMORTALITY."

All of God's children will be given IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION, so that they will NEVER DIE. However, those who are given immortality before the rest, receive it ages or eons IN ADVANCE of the rest.

Can you now understand it? If not, let me know and I'll try and explain it a different way.

I will post more later...

 

[Dondi]

So are you saying that you are a universalist? Do you think that Hell will only last 1000 years (or however an eon lasts)?

 

[BlaznFattyz]

it means the same as saying forgive your brother 70,000 times, that doesnt mean an exact number, its a saying that means forgive an unlimited number of times. eons, or eternal or everlasting means to live and be with the lord forever and ever with no death. this isnt just the language of the bible, it is how humans communicate ideas, so please.

 

[Azure24]

I will quote myself from another thread...

In fact read below C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y, Corinthians 15:22-28 tells us the ORDER in which EVERYONE! YES! EVEN HITLER!! Will live to together with God!!

"22For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive[this eventually happens in the end]. 23But each in his own turn[this will NOT happen immediately BUT in TURNS]: Christ[is first], the firstfruits; then[next], when he comes, those who belong to him[the rightous/his followers are second]. 24Then the end will come[the end of Christ's reign with all the rightous lasting an EONIAN (Mostly 9 out of 10 times, the word "Eternal" is wrongly translated from the Greek word for eonian/age-abiding life )], when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all[I hardly doubt the Bible means "a few", but instead ALL]".

This is very clear! It then goes on to say this...

34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God —I say this to your shame.

In fact I advise you to read the whole of Corinthians 15...

 

[Azure24]

"...in order that we, who were the first[but not the last (eventually everyone)] to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory". (Ephisians 1:12)

"...not only in the present age but also in the one to come".(Ephisians 1:21)

 

[Azure24]

So are you saying that you are a universalist? Do you think that Hell will only last 1000 years (or however an eon lasts)?

No one is going to Hell...

The word “hell” is found in most modern language Bibles. This was not always so. There are numerous translations, which do not contain the word “hell” even once. Why is this? Furthermore, new translations are dropping the word hell from their versions. Do you know why this is happening?

Here are the words for which "hell" was inserted as a "translation" into English:

The Hebrew wordsheol (31 times)

The Greek wordgehenna (12 times)

The Greek wordhades (10 times)

The Greek word tartarus (1 time)

Listen to what I am about to say very very carefully: If the word "hell" is the most accurate and correct English word available to translate, the Hebrew wordsheol, and the Greek wordsgehenna, hades, and tartartus, then these four words must all have the same meaning. But in reality only two of these four words have the same meaning.

The Hebrew wordsheol and the Greek wordhades are synonymous in meaning.

And here is the proof from the Scriptures and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the Hebrewsheol and the Greekhades are identical in meaning:

Acts 2:27: "Because You will not leave My soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption" is quoted from:

Psalm 16:10: "For You will not leave My soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption."

 

[Azure24]

So are you saying that you are a universalist? Do you think that Hell will only last 1000 years (or however an eon lasts)?

No, our merciful and graceful loving God and Father does not eternally (for 1000 years) torture humanity IN fire, but rather eternally saves humanity BY fire.

Let’s read it and rejoice:

"Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

Does everyone understand this? NO ONE is tortured, killed, or annihilated in this fire! This fire of God SAVES people who go through it! There is salvation BY means of this fire. This fire is part of God’s judgment and grace!

Pay close attention to what I am about to say. There are but two places in all Scripture that speak of "EVERY MAN’S WORK" being tried and judged: Twice in I Cor. 3 and twice in Rev. 20. And there are but two places in all Scripture where every man’s work is tried and judged "IN FIRE." And again those two places are I Cor. 3 and Rev. 20. Now then, the Apostle Peter said that,

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture at all is becoming its OWN EXPLANATION" (II Pet. 1:20, Concordant Literal New Testament).

So I Cor. 3 cannot completely answer all that is contained within its verses without the aid of the ONLY other such Scripture in the Bible, Rev. 20. And Rev. 20 cannot completely answer all that is contained within its verses without the aid of the ONLY other such Scripture in the Bible, I Cor. 3!

Paul tells us in I Cor. 2: 12-13 that,

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might KNOW THE THINGS that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak [in only twelve more verses Paul Himself speaks of just such spiritual things concerning the judgment of men’s works in fire] not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches [not the same physical torture in physical fire taught by the foolish understanding of the church] but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [OR MATCHING] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL."

By comparing these two spiritually matched Scriptures with one another we can come to the truth of God’s intention for BOTH of these fires that judge and try EVERY MAN’S WORK in their own order.

I will quote myself...

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (New International Version)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

God IS the lake of fire in revelation 'Purifying' us (that's EVERYONE) from sin...

God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that don’t deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of God’s spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).
And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so God’s SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so God’s all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE. This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GOD’S ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in God’s Holy Word. How can any deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of God’s spirit.
Make no mistake, God will judge the wicked with great severity. However, ALWAYS FOR A BENEVOLENT PURPOSE:

"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9)

There will come a time when those who only knew how to blaspheme the name of God, will come to LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. They will not just "hear" of righteousness, no, they will actually "LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS"!

The whole book of Isaiah speaks of judgments on Israel and on the nations. But the end of all these judgments is SALVATION TO ALL.

"Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,’ I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR" (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3). (NOTE THE EVERY!)

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE ... I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT"

Do you believe in the Depths of Satan or the Depth of God?

The DEPTHS of Satan—teaches that what God does mostly, is HATE! He is a God of eternal hatred and vengeance. He is pictured as the chief of hypocrites. He tells mankind to love their enemies, but shows His perverted love toward mankind by torturing most of our loved-ones in fire for all eternity. God’s weak wish of saving all humanity is thwarted by the sovereign power of man’s supposed free will, and thus most of the human race will eternally hate and despise and curse their Creator for ever making them. This teaching of Satan has absolutely no redeeming value to it. God will be remembered eternally for being the greatest failure in the history of the universe. This doctrine is both the most evil and the most stupid teaching ever conceived.

The DEPTHS of God—teaches that what God does and is, is LOVE! He is a God fully capable of bringing the whole human race to repentance through judgments that cause man to learn righteousness. The purpose for man’s creation is to teach him obedience and love, so that he can be molded into the very Image of God Himself and thus be manifested as the Eternal Sons and Daughters of God in the Family of God. God’s plan brings unspeakable happiness to and pleasure to every creature in heaven and earth. God’s plan will be totally successful down to God’s very last wish and desire. Possessing the very character of God and His love for all His creatures is the most marvelous plan ever conceived by our all-wise and Loving God.

 

[Dondi]

So in the end, everyone will be saved, right? That's why I asked if you were a universalist, as in one who believes all will be saved eventually in the end.

You sound like you've been listening to Martin Zender. Are you familiar with him?

 

[Azure24]

No I am not...But, some of his thoughts are similar to mine. I'm not fimiliar with the term "universalist" either, but yes I do belive all will be saved, however I am not a "Universalist". What do you believe?

 

[mee]

So in the end, everyone will be saved, right? ?

But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men. 2 peter 3;7



ungodly men will not be saved, as we can see from this verse .
but of cause it is not refering to a litral fire, the fire is not litral fire .



In a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus
2 thessalonians 1;8

 

[mee]

yes I do belive all will be saved,

so what does the bible tell us , because sticking to the pure words of the bible is the way to go .


But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men .2 peter 3;7


in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news 2 thessalonians 1;8



the ungodly will not be saved ,

but these verses are not refering to a litral fire as all those with accurate bible knowledge are aware.



Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. John 3;19

For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way
romans 1;18

 

[Netti-Netti]

No, our merciful and graceful loving God and Father does not eternally (for 1000 years) torture humanity IN fire, but rather eternally saves humanity BY fire.

.... NO ONE is tortured, killed, or annihilated in this fire! This fire of God SAVES people who go through it! There is salvation BY means of this fire. This fire is part of God’s judgment and grace!

It's not at all uncommon to see people cite Revelation in connection with the notion that the wicked are cast into a "lake of fire." I can see why that is considering the numbers of Bible commentaries and hellfire/brimstone preachers who keep repeating this notion whenever they want to emphasize that sinners will be punished for their wrongdoings with eternal damnation.

But let's look at the book of Revelation. It's not souls who were to be thrown into the lake of fire. Rather, as stated in Revelation 20:14, "death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire."

The Lake of Fire is a Divine process that transforms finitude and potential for evil into Eternal Life.

 

[Bishadi]

The term "Eternal life" is unscriptual in the Bible. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. "Eternal life" in it's proper wording is "Eonian life".

Let me give you passage:

John 3:36

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

This indeed is a mistake. Highlight John

3:36 and go to Bible gateway. Now, most Bibles will give "the above quote" or replace "Eternal" with "everlasting". Now, "everlasting" is a contradiction in itself... If it is "EVER" (forever) then how can it be "LASTING" (to last). But how ever some Bibles (in Bible gateway) have to proper meaning for example let me show you what the same passage says in Young's Literal translation:

"he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him."

SO ‘he who is believing in the Son’ could be seen in a few way’s,,, believing in the sun (the light)… or believing the Son of man (his words) or in the that the Son is to be believed (when comes)…..

“and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life” …. Which would make sense, that if the knowledge from the son is not believed then a person would not understand life (see life)…. Which then would combine with

"Eonian life" is life for the eons or life for the ages. However long the eons or ages are, that's how long eonian or age-abiding life is. Then what?

To understand that ‘light’ is the life upon mass; then from the beginning living things evolved from the light (life) of mass through time.

Which then means we each are of the light of even the most ancient (the fathers) which also means the fathers are in fact alive and in the flesh as you stand; as well such that the teachings of Jesus are still spoken of; as even Confucius, Einstein and Darwin; their knowledge and teaching is ‘alive’ within each of us.

So the idea of ‘thy works’ has merit/

That light is life, has merit…

That each can live forever ‘by what they do’ has merit….

Seem that to simply understand how life works, each person can have ever lasting life; equally!


Then that would mean the bible was correct;

knowledge will combine mankind

for example:

carbon 12..... just about all life is composed with carbon and the isotope C-12 is the stable form; chemically speaking; 6 electrons, 6 protons and 6 neutrons.......

imagine that: branded upon your head from 'him who hath UNDERSTANDING' recon the number of ..... June 1966.... a birth.....

 

[Thomas]

Hi Azure —

The term "Eternal life" is unscriptual in the Bible. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. "Eternal life" in it's proper wording is "Eonian life".

Well by the same argument, the word 'life' is unscriptural isn't it, as 'life' is not a Greek word — the word is 'zoe'

And the proper (Greek) wording is aioios zoe.

+++

So what do the NT scribes mean by zoe? They mean life.

So what do the NT scribes mean by ainios? It's an adjective and it can mean:
without beginning or end;
that which always has been and will always be;
without beginning;
never ending, never ceasing, everlasting.

The adjective is from the noun aion, meaning:
for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity;
the worlds, universe;
period of time, age.

So you have to understand it in context, and where you are uncertain, you have to refer to the oral tradition.

+++

Now, "everlasting" is a contradiction in itself ... If it is "EVER" (forever) then how can it be "LASTING" (to last).

Er ... because it lasts ... forever?
Then by your own argument, 'lasting' refers to a duration, and 'ever' refers to without end, therefore everlasting is duration without end ... not contradictory at all.

+++

All of God's children will be given IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION, so that they will NEVER DIE. However, those who are given immortality before the rest, receive it ages or eons IN ADVANCE of the rest.

Have you ever looked at the Catholic Doctrine of the Communion of Saints?

We hold that some 'sleep in Christ' whilst others are 'awake' — the saints and the blessed — and continue His work — hence we pray for their intercession and prayers on our behalf, as we pray for those who sleep.

Likewise in the Celestial City, there are those who will live in the center, those in the middle, those at a distance ... such stratification goes against the egalitarian ethos of the current age, but then this age has renounced the ways of God anyway, and makes a nonsense of justice ... what matters more is that each will occupy his station according to his nature, and each will enjoy the fullness of the beatific vision accordingly.

In closing, you cannot save that all men will be saved because it is God's will, because God respects human will, and if a man chooses not be be saved, then he will not be saved: "but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven" (Luke 12:10).

Thomas

 

[Bishadi]

Appears there is much more to read.

http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txub/eusebiu6.htm



Writings of Eusebius - The Church History of Eusebius

Advanced Information
Translated by Rev. Arthur Cushman McGiffert, Ph.D.
Under the editorial supervision of Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D., Professor of Church History in the Union Theological Semimary, New York, and Henry Wace, D.D., Principal of King's College, London
Published in 1890 by Philip Schaff, New York: Christian Literature Publishing Co





Chapter XVIII.--The Apostle John and the Apocalypse.
1. It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. [713] 2. Iren�us, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, [714] speaks as follows concerning him: [715] 3. "If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian." 4. To such a degree, indeed, did the teaching of our faith flourish at that time that even those writers who were far from our religion did not hesitate to mention in their histories the persecution and the martyrdoms which took place during it. [716] 5. And they, indeed, accurately indicated the time. For they recorded that in the fifteenth year of Domitian [717] Flavia Domitilla, daughter of a sister of Flavius Clement, who at that time was one of the consuls of Rome, [718] was exiled with many others to the island of Pontia in consequence of testimony borne to Christ.


the number was about a birth....... a period in time ........... not a name

 

[winner08]

show me scripture where it says the ungodly will not be saved. I can bet you wont find them words in scripture.

Darren

 

[Quahom1]

show me scripture where it says the ungodly will not be saved. I can bet you wont find them words in scripture.

Darren

Got a better one for ya. Show me where it says, they will be saved...

Oh, and welcome to Interfaith, Darren

 

[mee]

show me scripture where it says the ungodly will not be saved. I can bet you wont find them words in scripture.

Darren

how about these , of cause it is not refering to a litral fire, but everlasting destruction .

in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 2 thessalonians1 ;8;9

"Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, . . . but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."2 PETER 3:9.





For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way
romans 1;18


But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.
2 peter 3;7



"Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him."—Jude 14, 15.


Those coming to their end will be ungodly.
No harm will come to innocents, unlike what often happens in human wars, where civilian casualties outnumber military ones.
The Great Judge guarantees us that his day will be a destruction of the ungodly.

 

[Quahom1]

how about these , of cause it is not refering to a litral fire, but everlasting destruction .

in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 2 thessalonians1 ;8;9

"Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, . . . but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."2 PETER 3:9.





For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way
romans 1;18


But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.
2 peter 3;7



"Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him."—Jude 14, 15.


Those coming to their end will be ungodly.
No harm will come to innocents, unlike what often happens in human wars, where civilian casualties outnumber military ones.
The Great Judge guarantees us that his day will be a destruction of the ungodly.

Let Darren look it up, mee. Doesn't do any good with the bible closed in front of him. He's got to open it up and look for himself. You're not doing him any favors...

 

[mee]

Let Darren look it up, mee. Doesn't do any good with the bible closed in front of him. He's got to open it up and look for himself. You're not doing him any favors...

very true its good for others to look it up then they will know what the bible REALLY teaches.

the bible is no good to any of us if it is sat on a bookshelf never having been looked at . or up in the attic to gather dust.


WHAT is sharper than any two-edged sword?

God’s Word, the Bible,

"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and their marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart."—Heb. 4:12.


yes the bible is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart it has great power