early christian writings

Wow, that's a long list of books! I think I like Origen, although I don't remember exactly why. Maybe because I was once a Unitarian... and technically unitarian as in monotheist... or maybe Origen was a universalist I'm thinking about...
 
I don't know for sure if Origen was a unitarian...but he was influenced by Philo Judeaus of Alexandria.

The interesting thing about Philo is that he used the term Logos in much the same way that the author of the Gospel of John did ...

See

The Logos and Its Function in the Writings of Philo of Alexandria

Philo was influenced by Plato and blended many concepts with Judaism which also influenced Origen.

Baha'u'llah in the Lawh-i-Hikmat pays tribute to those He called the divine philosophers.

Baha'u'llah extolls Socrates:

After him came Socrates who was indeed wise, accomplished and righteous. He practised self-denial, repressed his appetites for selfish desires and turned away from material pleasures. He withdrew to the mountains where he dwelt in a cave. He dissuaded men from worshipping idols and taught them the way of God, the Lord of Mercy, until the ignorant rose up against him. They arrested him and put him to death in prison. Thus relateth to thee this swift-moving Pen.

What a penetrating vision into philosophy this eminent man had! He is the most distinguished of all philosophers and was highly versed in wisdom. We testify that he is one of the heroes in this field and an outstanding champion dedicated unto it. He had a profound knowledge of such sciences as were current amongst men as well as of those which were veiled from their minds.

Methinks he drank one draught when the Most Great Ocean overflowed with gleaming and life-giving waters. He it is who perceived a unique, a tempered, and a pervasive nature in things, bearing the closest likeness to the human spirit, and he discovered this nature to be distinct from the substance of things in their refined form. He hath a special pronouncement on this weighty theme. Wert thou to ask from the worldly wise of this generation about this exposition, thou wouldst witness their incapacity to grasp it. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth but most people comprehend not.
 
Hi arthra —

arthra said:
I don't know for sure if Origen was a unitarian...
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No, he wasn't Unitarian, his Trinitarian thinking was couched in Platonic terms, the doctrine far from complete, and open to misinterpretation.

Origen was one of the first systematic theologians, his major works "On First Principles" being a refutation of gnosticism, and "Contra Celcus" being a response to Celcus, also a Platonic philosopher, who was very critical of Christianity in assuming it had no philosophical foundation whatsoever.

He 'wrote' copiously, or rather, he dictated, and his scribes copied down his words. There are records of him dictating six separate documents simultaneously, dictating to one scribe, then moving to the next while the first finished writing what he had said, then the third, and so on, then back to the first!

Thomas
 
Yep Thomas I agree .. as i recall though he had some run ins with the local religious establshment in Alexandria:

"About 230, Origen entered on the fateful journey which was to compel him to give up his work at Alexandria and embittered the next years of his life. Sent to Greece on some ecclesiastical mission, he paid a visit to Caesarea, where he was heartily welcomed and was ordained a priest, that no further cause for criticism might be given Demetrius, who had strongly disapproved his preaching before ordination while at Caesarea. But Demetrius, taking this well-meant act as an infringement of his rights, was furious, for not only was Origen under his jurisdiction, but, if Eastern sources may be believed, Demetrius had been the first to introduce episcopal ordination in Egypt. The metropolitan accordingly convened a synod of bishops and presbyters which banished Origen from Alexandria, while a second synod declared his ordination invalid."

So all was not rosy in those days...

- Art:)
 
On an interesting side note.... we wouldn't know about the ancient Greek philosophers if it wasn't for Muslims translating their works into Arabic and preserving them. (I heard this somewhere, can anyone back me up?) What I heard was that the Europeans, after adopting the blessed religion of Christianity, destroyed many pre-Christian works, especially anything that may have appeared to be competition, like philosophy and science. But I think it took centuries for them to do that, because Muslims were then able to take and preserve those works during what was to be called the dark ages. I guess it wasn't until the dark ages that many pre-Christian works began to be destroyed... (and at the time my ancestors weren't Christian yet... they were way up north ;) )
 
wil said:
And how about algebra!!
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And soap! And paper! And books! :)

If the Muslims hadn't gone to China, Westerners wouldn't have had books in the modern sense of the word... books with papers bound together instead of scrolls.

Muhammad said something about seeking the truth, even in China. I don't remember the exact words.

Marco Polo also brought a lot back from China... and some of the things we get from China are forks and combs, fireworks and paper money, pasta... pasta! I'm sure there are other things I'm forgetting.
 
My favorite early Christian Writings are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I think I like Matthew the most of the four because of the Sermon on the Mount.. chapters five, six, and seven, if I remember correctly. And I think my favorite version is the New Revised Standard Version... I think the latest translations are the best... more scholarship, more accuracy, I think.
 
Dah-veeth said:
On an interesting side note....
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Not all of them ... but yes. In fact the Renaissance was triggered by trade with the Arabs. Moslem culture was in many respects way in advance of Europe. The Andalucian city of Cordoba was perhaps the largest city in the world in the 10th century. It boasted public street lighting, hospitals, schools ... when mainland Europe was wallowing in the 'dark ages' of primitive feudalism.

Dah-veeth said:
(I heard this somewhere, can anyone back me up?) What I heard was that the Europeans, after adopting the blessed religion of Christianity, destroyed many pre-Christian works, especially anything that may have appeared to be competition, like philosophy and science.
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This is a common misconception, and the truth is somewhat simpler, and more complex!

In short, writing materials were scarce and expensive, and the scribes tended to be in the great monastic houses. What was copied was what was determined valuable, and that which wasn't simply rotted away — much of what is lost of Greek philosophy was lost long before the Christian appeared on the scene. Remember we have nothing of the early Greek philosophers, all we have of Socrates is via Plato ... and the monks loved Plato ... so it wasn't that stuff was destroyed, but rather what was seen as that the more important stuff was copied. Neither philosophy nor science was seen as being in competition, quite the reverse!

With the collapse and fragmentation of the Roman Empire, East and West grew apart, and eventually into schism. The Greek East retained its Platonic roots, Aristotelianism lasted a little longer in the West (Augustine was aware of Aristotle), but the artery was severed, and Latin became the common tongue.

There was little time, effort or money spent in the West on matters philosophical during the early middle ages, especially among feudal lords fighting for ascendancy. Only the monasteries continued the tradition of copying documents. This was when Eire emerged as 'the land of saints and scholars' ... they kept up the tradition of learning Latin and Greek, and the Irish scholars (Eriugena, for instance) were called in to translate Greek texts.

What the Muslims brought specifically was Aristotle, who was ignored in the Greek East and so had not made the transition West. St Thomas Aquinas learnt Aristotelian method from the great Moslem philosophers, whom he referred to as 'The Philosopher' (Avicenna) whilst Aristotle was 'The Master' and this underpinned his Summa Theologica and Summa Contra Gentiles.

His method is still an exemplar of philosophical argument even today ...

The idea that Christianity is against science and philosophy is erroneous, as in fact the monasteries kept science and philosophy alive, and were the main centres of dissemination. Philosophy was one of the main subjects of the Universities.

There is however evidence to show that literacy in Europe actually declined as a result of the Reformation, and the Reformers, in doing away with the monasteries, stripped their countries of the great libraries and centres of learning.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
In short, writing materials were scarce and expensive, and the scribes tended to be in the great monastic houses. What was copied was what was determined valuable, and that which wasn't simply rotted away — much of what is lost of Greek philosophy was lost long before the Christian appeared on the scene.
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Makes sense, and I should have guessed that... scribes were few and paper doesn't last forever. Things have to be copied over and over again to last centuries... Thanks for the history lesson! :)
 
Thomas said:
In short, writing materials were scarce and expensive, and the scribes tended to be in the great monastic houses. What was copied was what was determined valuable, and that which wasn't simply rotted away — much of what is lost of Greek philosophy was lost long before the Christian appeared on the scene.
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Ah, yes: the key word was "palimpsest."

Peace,

Bruce
 
Makes sense, and I should have guessed that... scribes were few and paper doesn't last forever. Things have to be copied over and over again to last centuries... Thanks for the history lesson!
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We are the founding scribes of all future electronically stored knowledge. In our lifetimes information is going from temporary mediums like paper to mediums of relatively infinite cheapness, portability, and permanence: things like static memory, holographs, and molecular quanta. 100 years from now, everything our generation writes and believes may be the filter through which *all* future generations judge the cumulative knowledge that was once kept on paper. If its not on Gutenberg.org, they may wonder if it ever really existed. They will argue, "What did Thomas and Dah-veeth think? Did they ever quote from that? Well, then it was probably not a real document." Paper documents and signatures will likely be chosen for their ease of recycling -- not their permanence. Prepare for post-mortem fame, friends.
 
erasing memory and what can be done...

It may be overly optimistic as a few glitches and maybe a big solar flare will erase a lot of that memory... Consider that what still may be left will be what was carved on stone or on clay tablets in mesopotamia which have still survived...

Baha'is have some records of our Writings that are preserved in various places on microfiche in case there is some untoward disaster to the original docs... but hopefully there will be enough preserved in vacuum and archival science for future generations.

- Art:)
 
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