Do these commands.....

[path_of_one]

It is about people, not space.

Have to agree, Q. Yeah, in the States the cities are more impersonal, but only in certain areas (mostly white middle class and above). You go to some of the poor neighborhoods, and often you'll still see a neighborly attitude. Go to the ethnic enclaves, and you see it even more. It just depends on the culture of the neighborhood and so forth. Yes, space can impact it (well, more like the built environment than population) but it isn't the problem.

I found that just riding on a commuter train causes people to forge relationships and look after each other more. People let others know when they drop/leave something. They swap information and ideas. They pull out pictures of the kids or the latest vacation. People just need to be in a "safe" space, however that is defined and met, so that they can relax enough to share and care.

I think we're on the verge of a revolution. More and more people are changing what they see success to be, what they want out of life. I think we're nearing the end of a "me" culture. Now, whether that will happen as a majority movement before something forces it... that's another question. We're getting pretty darn close to just plain running out of a lot of important stuff. We may well end up forced back to that rural family farm lifestyle. Unfortunately, there is practically no way this will happen without a whole lot of problems and probably a fair number of deaths. Most of the sociologists and anthropologists I know are holding their breath at the big natural experiment, and at the same time, pretty worried about it.

Something's gotta give...

 

[Quahom1]

Quahom1,That's sounds great, only I'm not sure. Its hard to maintain objectivity in a sparring situation when I'm talking about issues that are emotional for me. I've read some of your posts though, because I try to read all of the posts in threads when I'm posting in them. I think debates between opposing groups never resolve issues, or they wouldn't need judges in courts. The best debates are like games of chess between old friends, and they're really just mental exercise and for exploring in depth things they already agree about. Even in that I'm a newbie. We could argue about unimportant things, just for fun.

If one starts with "This is what I think/believe/feel", then it becomes a debate/discussion with no ultimate goal of convincing one side to come to the other. When the discussion begins with "You are wrong, the bible says...and there is no option for interpretation or discussion" (or the equivelant), then it becomes a battle. I like chess very much. I don't like battle fields at all. But since you've read my posts, you are aware I'm good in both theaters of operation...

 

[Quahom1]

Have to agree, Q. Yeah, in the States the cities are more impersonal, but only in certain areas (mostly white middle class and above). You go to some of the poor neighborhoods, and often you'll still see a neighborly attitude. Go to the ethnic enclaves, and you see it even more. It just depends on the culture of the neighborhood and so forth. Yes, space can impact it (well, more like the built environment than population) but it isn't the problem.

I found that just riding on a commuter train causes people to forge relationships and look after each other more. People let others know when they drop/leave something. They swap information and ideas. They pull out pictures of the kids or the latest vacation. People just need to be in a "safe" space, however that is defined and met, so that they can relax enough to share and care.

I think we're on the verge of a revolution. More and more people are changing what they see success to be, what they want out of life. I think we're nearing the end of a "me" culture. Now, whether that will happen as a majority movement before something forces it... that's another question. We're getting pretty darn close to just plain running out of a lot of important stuff. We may well end up forced back to that rural family farm lifestyle. Unfortunately, there is practically no way this will happen without a whole lot of problems and probably a fair number of deaths. Most of the sociologists and anthropologists I know are holding their breath at the big natural experiment, and at the same time, pretty worried about it.

Something's gotta give...

Tell 'em to start holding potluck Fridays more often...

 

[Dream]

are you most interested in some sort of pristine Judeo-Christian neo-Israelitism with extra emphasis on the foundational Hebrew mythology?

I've always taken Christianity very seriously. All of my family are Christians in various denominations, and mesmerism thrives in some of those denominations. Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by neo-Israelitism, but if there isn't a pristine Judeo-Christian historical stance based upon the Hebrew religion, then Christianity is a social club with parlor tricks.

Whatever happens, my strategy is to remind fellow Christians of their roots. A widespread return to those roots would be a powerful form of introspection, religion-wide. I'm present in this forum and in other places researching Judaism, Christianity, and testing ideas on guinea pigs.

 

[seattlegal]

Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible.

That's interesting, coming from someone who chose to use the moniker "Dream."

 

[Quahom1]

I've always taken Christianity very seriously. All of my family are Christians in various denominations, and mesmerism thrives in some of those denominations. Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by neo-Israelitism, but if there isn't a pristine Judeo-Christian historical stance based upon the Hebrew religion, then Christianity is a social club with parlor tricks.

Whatever happens, my strategy is to remind fellow Christians of their roots. A widespread return to those roots would be a powerful form of introspection, religion-wide. I'm present in this forum and in other places researching Judaism, Christianity, and testing ideas on guinea pigs.

Christian churches may be social clubs with parlor tricks. But Christianity is not. Christianity can ultimately be summed up in John 3:16-17. All one has to do is truly accept, then watch the world for them change...

Judeasm is a faith that has fallen short of the mark. Theirs is still a travaile who's end is yet to be met. In other words, the favored son has yet to realize his full potential before the Lord God. But the "prodigal" came home 2000 years ago. Guinea pigs? No my friend. Me thinks you could learn a few lessons by all the good folk here at CR, instead.

v/r

Joshua

 

[Quahom1]

That's interesting, coming from someone who chose to use the moniker "Dream."

Ouch! (lol)

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I've always taken Christianity very seriously. All of my family are Christians in various denominations, and mesmerism thrives in some of those denominations. Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by neo-Israelitism, but if there isn't a pristine Judeo-Christian historical stance based upon the Hebrew religion, then Christianity is a social club with parlor tricks.

Whatever happens, my strategy is to remind fellow Christians of their roots. A widespread return to those roots would be a powerful form of introspection, religion-wide. I'm present in this forum and in other places researching Judaism, Christianity, and testing ideas on guinea pigs.

Fascinating. I had thought mesmerism was a late nineteenth early twentieth century phenomenon. What sort of mesmeristic activities? Which denominations?

It's OK if you don't want to reveal your denominational affiliation. It would make the dialog easier, but I understand the negatives. I have no affiliation whatsoever.

Chris

 

[Dream]

Of course I'm learning things here. Speaking of which, I was trying to find some scripture about missing the mark which took me to Ezek 9:6, but it was about something different. Then I skimmed through some other things, like Ezekiel 37 and Romans 11.

Then the nations will know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore."

Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

 

[Dream]

China_Cat, its terribly true. Skim a book on hypnosis, and then go sit through a high-energy sermon in any major US city or Canada. Observe that all of the tools of the hypnotist are present. Its nothing but voodoo in many cases. Charismatic, non-denominational, Pentecostal, and many other denominations are very open to Mesmer's disciples. At some of these churches to be a minister all you have to do is act like you know what you're doing.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

OK, I see what you mean. But the manipulation of group dynamics is universal in religion. I mean, that's what church is for, which is why I don't attend.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

China_Cat, its terribly true. Skim a book on hypnosis, and then go sit through a high-energy sermon in any major US city or Canada. Observe that all of the tools of the hypnotist are present. Its nothing but voodoo in many cases. Charismatic, non-denominational, Pentecostal, and many other denominations are very open to Mesmer's disciples. At some of these churches to be a minister all you have to do is act like you know what you're doing.

Dream, I have forced people to drink water (lots of it), while they were under my "power" and I was over 100 feet away, and they never knew I was there. I'll never do that again. And you know as well as I do that the quickest way to break hypnotism is to call "BULL ****" in the middle of the whole thing.

That is called being alert and aware and not afraid to call a spade a spade. And this has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity, so what is your point?

 

[Quahom1]

OK, I see what you mean. But the manipulation of group dynamics is universal in religion. I mean, that's what church is for, which is why I don't attend.

Chris

Oh please Chris. You know better than this. And Dream is a joke, with his crap that has no bearing on Christianity. This has gone on long enough...

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well now wait a minute Josh. Watch a couple of hours of televangelism. It's sheer manipulation. Check out a Pentecostal church service. It's controlled hysteria. I don't know what you all do over at the Celtic Catholic parish, but Catholic mass or mainline Protestant liturgy of the sort one would experience at their local Lutheran or Episcopal church exists is in an entirely different, and much more sedate universe.

Chris

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I'll bet our friend Dream is somewhere between foursquare and WWCOG with a heavy dose of generic Calvinism. Hmmm...some sort of off label dominionist. What could that be? Not your typical movementarian, but little tells here and there.

Chris

 

[Dream]

The church in its origin is a community support organization taking care of old women without families, orphans, etc. Its like the Red Cross, Salvation Army, Social Security, school, hospital and nursing home all rolled into one. There are criteria to keep moochers from consuming the community funds. Bishops and the elders take care of the funds and make sure everyone's needs, both spiritual and physical are being taken care of. Church is not intended as a manipulative device at all.

Quahom, I have not read enough. I didn't know you exercised super-physical powers. I do not have a lot of experience with such things, but I'm glad you aren't using your 'Power' to knock over my books or something. I don't know much about your view of Christianity, but I'll try to read up.

 

[Dream]

I've always taken Christianity very seriously. All of my family are Christians in various denominations, and mesmerism thrives in some of those denominations. Mesmerism is my hated enemy, so my interest is to destroy its practice everywhere as much as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by neo-Israelitism, but if there isn't a pristine Judeo-Christian historical stance based upon the Hebrew religion, then Christianity is a social club with parlor tricks.

Hmmmm. Now that was a self-righteous quote.

I know now that my goal to "destroy the practice of mesmerism everywhere as much as possible" is entirely impossible, even on an individual level. Beside the fact that its beyond the height of my power, it was actually a small-minded thing to say. There may be opportunities, and I may get the chance to blow away some fog; but I think it will only an indirect result of a change in my total living and thinking -- not a goal or direct action on my part. It should be an inductive process, the work of God. Am I seeing clearly myself? The fog between us both may blind me as easily as you. As SG said earlier: 'Transformation' which I take to mean that the key is self transformation. As Quahom1 said "The Commandments have not changed. Our perceptions of them have."

 

[Quahom1]

Hmmmm. Now that was a self-righteous quote.

Since I started visiting and posting here, I've learned that my goal to "destroy the practice of mesmerism everywhere as much as possible" is entirely impossible, even on an individual level. There may be opportunities, and we may get the chance to blow away some fog; but I think it can only an indirect result of our total living and thinking -- not a goal.

I'm not certain where this mesmerism you talk about, is coming from. But I know for fact that standard christianity does not use this practice as way of "connecting" with God.

Like to know what denominations you are referring to...

 

[Dream]

To myself. How can I say that a congregation is mesmerized? It may strongly appear to me that a congregation is mesmerized, but I'm simply not in a position to see the truth about it. My illusion is thinking that I can understand their situation better than them. I didn't make them or myself.

 

[mee]

Jesus last words to his followers say


GO therefore and make disciples(or learners) of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

matthew 28;19-20

and they did just so



but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth." ACTS 1;8


provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard, and which was preached in all creation that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister.
COLLOSIANS 1;23


For no man can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 CORINTHIANS 3;11


and the followers of Jesus are out there still


And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. MATTHEW 24;14