Do these commands.....

mee said:
Jesus last words to his followers say


GO therefore and make disciples(or learners) of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

matthew 28;19-20

and they did just so



but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth." ACTS 1;8


provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard, and which was preached in all creation that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister.
COLLOSIANS 1;23


For no man can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 CORINTHIANS 3;11


and the followers of Jesus are out there still:)


And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. MATTHEW 24;14
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Jesus' last words were recorded as these:

"Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." Matthew 28:20.

Then he ascended before the 11, with absolute Love for them.
 
Quahom1 said:
Jesus' last words were recorded as these:

"Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." Matthew 28:20.

Then he ascended before the 11, with absolute Love for them.
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yes we really are in the time of the end.
soon this world system as we know it will hit the dust.

Even better, Jesus promised that in the last days of this system of things, he would gather his faithful disciples into a clearly identifiable Christian congregation that he would use to accomplish his will. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47)

He is right now using that congregation to gather together "a great crowd" of men, women, and children "out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues," and he is uniting them under his headship into "one flock" under "one shepherd."—Revelation 7:9, 14-17; John 10:16; Ephesians 4:11-16.


yes there are many learners in that great crowd ,being taught the ways of Jesus.

:)And Jesus is with them :)
 
mee said:
yes we really are in the time of the end.
soon this world system as we know it will hit the dust.

Even better, Jesus promised that in the last days of this system of things, he would gather his faithful disciples into a clearly identifiable Christian congregation that he would use to accomplish his will. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47)

He is right now using that congregation to gather together "a great crowd" of men, women, and children "out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues," and he is uniting them under his headship into "one flock" under "one shepherd."—Revelation 7:9, 14-17; John 10:16; Ephesians 4:11-16.


yes there are many learners in that great crowd ,being taught the ways of Jesus.

:)And Jesus is with them :)
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Damn, I knew it was a waste of time...
 
mee said:
mee knows only what the bible really teaches that is enough for mee .:)
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Too bad, because the Bible also says to learn what life has to teach. Seems you missed that boat...

you know the part..."wise as serpents, innocent as doves?..."
 
Quahom1 said:
Too bad, because the Bible also says to learn what life has to teach. Seems you missed that boat...

you know the part..."wise as serpents, innocent as doves?..."
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What did Jesus have in mind, then, when he encouraged his followers to be "cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves"?—Matthew 10:16.


Jesus was giving instructions for preaching and teaching

Today, people react to the good news in much the same way that they did in the first century.

When faced with persecution, true Christians need to combine the shrewdness of the serpent with the purity of the dove.

Christians never employ deceit or dishonesty but are uncorrupted, genuine, and honest in declaring the Kingdom message to others.

"Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men."Matt. 10:16, 17,


Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves.
Luke 10:3.


 
mee said:
What did Jesus have in mind, then, when he encouraged his followers to be "cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves"?—Matthew 10:16.


Jesus was giving instructions for preaching and teaching

Today, people react to the good news in much the same way that they did in the first century.

When faced with persecution, true Christians need to combine the shrewdness of the serpent with the purity of the dove.

Christians never employ deceit or dishonesty but are uncorrupted, genuine, and honest in declaring the Kingdom message to others.

"Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men."Matt. 10:16, 17,


Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves.
Luke 10:3.
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Jesus was giving instruction to us, to live in such a way that we are not taken for fools, but also that we don't contribute to the negative ways of the world, nor do we become as guilty as those that do cause harm.
 
Quahom1 said:
Jesus was giving instruction to us, to live in such a way that we are not taken for fools, but also that we don't contribute to the negative ways of the world, nor do we become as guilty as those that do cause harm.
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true, christians are different to the world and its ways , it would not look good to talk about peace and then not be peaceful :) he was sending them out on the preaching . and they would meet alsorts of wolves



A SHEEP among wolves has little power of its own to protect itself against being devoured.

A sheep, therefore, must rely upon its shepherd to protect it against wolves. It wants to serve the good purposes of its shepherd and not be devoured by ravenous wolves.

So it obeys its shepherd’s voice.
 
I can't help but ponder if Jesus had been in the Andes speaking to the local people and using a similar animal- the llama- as the woolly metaphor of choice.

LOL How would it be different to say "be a llama?" Anyone who knows llama behavior knows you can put a llama in with the sheep and they will defend themselves and the sheep against wolves...

Guess I'm in an odd mood today. I just get curious how the imagery might come across when translated into other areas and their local fauna... To be honest, I often wonder about the sheep imagery. I don't know enough about sheep behavior and different varieties of sheep. Are they really that helpless? Are they that stupid?

I wonder because some domesticated varieties of cattle, like Angus and Beefmaster, are pretty stupid and so defenseless. But others, like Longhorns, are cunning, quick, and will defend against predators. Are all sheep so dumb that they are completely unable to defend themselves? And, if so, what does that metaphor say about us? How to square it with being wise as serpents?

Defense is not simply a matter of violence. One can defend oneself without violence by being intelligent and quick.

ETA: more about the sheep metaphor. Sheep don't obey the shepherd's voice. That's why shepherds have herding dogs, to intimidate the sheep into going where they are supposed to go. Watch sheep herding trials- the shepherd directs the dog, and the dog directs the sheep. So I'm still a bit lost in the metaphor when I really think about it. In the spiritual model, if Christ is the shepherd, who are the dogs? And must they be intimidating to get cooperation? Are sheep trainable?

On some level, the metaphor is just not making total sense to me...
 
I have heard of that, too, but we are actually not commanded to be sheep although we are sometimes described as sheep. There is a passage where Jesus sends some disciples to preach in some cities where he says he is sending them out like sheep among wolves, but he only commands them to be both clever and innocent, neither of which are sheepish characteristics. Sheep are dumb and weak, but not innocent. The original twelve disciples were first set of disciples Jesus sent out to preach both in Mathew 10:1, and Luke 9:1.
Matthew 10:16 said:
Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
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This was followed by another group of 70 disciples sent out.(Luke 10:1-17) This second group preached the same thing as the first, and in verse 17 they return rejoicing after finishing their preaching and talking about the 'Devils'. If I read the entire account from 1 to 17, they were sent out with no money and faced opposition from the local leadership. In my opinion, these were the wolves Jesus spoke of because of Matthew 10:17-19. The devils were either diseases, psychological conditions, or else some kind of possession. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say the wolves were included in there with the devils, but I don't have an opinion about that.
Matthew 10:17-19 said:
But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
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They were sent out as sheep among wolves, however they did not die. They were sent as sheep to the lost sheep of Israel, but to the wolves they were cunning as serpents and innocent as doves. When Jesus told them he was sending them out as sheep among wolves, it would have brought several mournful Psalms to their minds. No doubt they assumed that they were going to their deaths, but the seventy came back rejoicing that even devils submitted to them.

Those disciples placed themselves into God's hands, and had no provisions or accommodations for their journey (like sheep don't). The fact that 70 were sent out and came back rejoicing is a symbolic suggestion that the prayer offered in Psalm 44 is powerful and will always be answered if offered with the right attitude. Perhaps the disciples recited that prayer many times throughout their mission. It reminds me of the story CS Lewis wrote in which there was a magical horn, called Susan's Horn, which brought help whenever there was dire need.

Psalm 44 said:
21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.
23 Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.
24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and forgettest our affliction and our oppression?
25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.
26 Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.
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[quote="Psalm 119:176]I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.[/quote]
 
path_of_one said:
I don't know enough about sheep behavior and different varieties of sheep. Are they really that helpless? Are they that stupid?

quote]
they are not that stupid because they listen to the shepherds voice


Sheep allow themselves to be led, and they faithfully follow their shepherd.



Under unfaithful shepherds or leaders, the Israelites as God’s sheep suffered greatly.

By contrast, Jesus’ sheep, both the "little flock" and the "other sheep," who follow his lead, are well cared for. (Lu 12:32; Joh 10:4, 14, 16; Re 7:16, 17)



Jesus compared those doing good toward the least of his brothers to sheep, whereas those refusing to do so he likened to goats.—Mt 25:31-45.
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Dream said:
but we are actually not commanded to be sheep although we are sometimes described as sheep. quote]
Jesus said his sheep would listen to his voice ,so Jesus spoke of his followers as sheep

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
JOHN 10;27
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path_of_one said:
So perhaps we were never meant to be as sheep are, but rather sheep were a metaphor for defenselessness?
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In the Scriptures, "sheep" often denote the defenseless, innocent, and, at times, abused people of Jehovah. (2Sa 24:17; Ps 44:11, 22; 95:7; 119:176; Mt 10:6, 16; Joh 21:16, 17; Ro 8:36)
 
But what I'm saying, mee, is that to say that sheep listen to the shepherd's voice is to totally ignore that sheep do not actually do this. This is why there are sheep dogs, and why shepherds throw rocks at their sheep to turn the flock.

Acting like it is all nice-nice and that the sheep listen is ignoring how sheep actually behave. I've been out in the field with shepherds and watched them tend flocks. There is a reason they have dogs...

This is why I'm pondering what the metaphor means. Because for anyone who actually works sheep, it seems inept. Sheep are far less likely to follow you at your call then, say, a dog or a horse.
 
In sermons I've heard, there was a distinction made between two types of shepherds in the ancient world. One type of shepherd lives with his sheep. Since he lives with them they grow accustomed to his voice and know it. He can actually calm the sheep with his voice. So by that explanation, Jesus is claiming to be a good spiritual shepherd. I always took for granted that this explanation was true, so I don't really know if it really works with sheep and whether shepherds did this. It sounds feasible to a city boy like me.

Jeremiah 23, Zechariah 11 mention two kinds of leadership as being good or bad shepherds over Israel, the 'Flock'.

Path_of_one said:
sheep do not actually do this. This is why there are sheep dogs
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Thanks for the info
 
path_of_one said:
So perhaps we were never meant to be as sheep are, but rather sheep were a metaphor for defenselessness?
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Without the Holy Spirit we are pretty much like sheep--not very smart and quite vulnerable. The Holy Spirit works with us to overcome this, even to the point of telling us what to say in difficult circumstances as the scripture that Dream posted points out. (Therefore, if we resist the Holy Spirit, we become vulnerable to sin like sheep who have strayed are vulnerable to predators.)

Regarding the shepherd's dogs, perhaps they could be viewed as the Holy Spirit working through our conscience, either accusing us or excusing us, as expressed in Romans 2, especially verse 15. :)
 
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