Enlightenment

starshipenterprise...

enlightenment as a concept is very different from enlightenment as an actuality...

what we think of as enlightenment is often not enlightenment at all, but something else...

it is popular to view enlightenment as a big event, like switching on a light- one flick, and wham! it's very bright all of a sudden, and yes, while it is true that for some people enlightenment occurs just like that, oftentimes enlightenment is a process, a gradual unfurling, not a discovering, but an uncovering...

an almost enlightened being can become unenlightened- if enlightenment is just a concept to grasp, or a state to attain, then yes, a person can regress backwards, slip up, allow some small yet deadly part of themselves to have reign, but a true enlightened being can never lose his light...

adopting a concept or chanting a slogan or dressing up in a robe does not make a person enlightened... saying a person is enlightened does not mean they are enlightened... simply believing is not enough- a child believes in Father Christmas... it does not make Father Christmas real...

what is enlightenment? conventionally, it could be described as coming to realisation, it could be considered to come to understanding, discovering insight or wisdom, yet is this really enlightenment?

And yet... there is another kind of enlightenment, not based on intelligence and good behaviour, a kind of enlightenment that is spoken of quietly in all religions, young and old, east and west... that enlightenment uncovers other things- the ability to know the minds of others, the ability to know past and future time, the ability to heal and intercede, the ability to know things which go beyond simple logic and reasoning...

this kind of enlightenment gives us prophets and saints, and shamans and witches, and gurus...

so, what is enlightenment for a buddhist? Is there one? Is there several?

I would say for the average buddhist, their goal is not enlightenment... but, even if it was, there would be not just one grand enlightenment, but several small ones.... such as...waking up to the self and the nature of the self, waking up to thought and the nature of thought, ridding themselves of the poisons and afflictions, being decent, ethical, having an awareness of time and space and understanding their place in the great grand scheme of things... all these things bring about a kind of enlightenment, and while that might be fine and dandy, it is not a dramatic, sudden thing, but a gradual process of polishing the mirror of the mind until it gleams, like it did in the beginning, before the dust of the world settled upon it...
 
I would like to thank everyone for their replies. Sorry if I don't get around to responding to them all.

Francis king said:
it is popular to view enlightenment as a big event, like switching on a light- one flick, and wham! it's very bright all of a sudden, and yes, while it is true that for some people enlightenment occurs just like that, oftentimes enlightenment is a process, a gradual unfurling, not a discovering, but an uncovering...
Click to expand...

It seems there is some misunderstanding between east and west. I always thought of enlightenment this way. A light in your head suddenly comes on and *poof* enlightenment! It seems any kind of realization could be called "enlightenment".

Vajradhara said:
Fundamentals of Buddhism: Rebirth


excerpt here:

Finally, I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self. There is the continuity of cause and effect, but not permanence. I want to end with this point because we will be considering the example of the seed and the sprout, and the example of the flame in an oil lamp next week when we discuss dependent origination. And with the help of the teaching of dependent origination, we will understand better how dependent origination makes moral responsibility and notself compatible.
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I found this very interesting. Is rebirth, then, just a metaphor for how our actions affect future generations; worded in a way so that it appeals to the masses? I have always been interested in Buddhism, but considered reincarnation to be bs. It seems I'm getting a fresh new view on Buddhist concepts, and that they aren't what they appear to be at first glance.

I have also glanced at some other threads on this topic, such as :http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/what-is-enlightenment-rewritten-edited-1313.html

I haven't had too much time for Cr lately, but I'll look into it as soon as I can!

btw: I hope to take a class on Buddhist philosophy next fall, so hopefully that should clear some things up :)

metta, (did I get that right?, lol)

SE
 
StarshipEnterprise said:
I always thought of enlightenment this way. A light in your head suddenly comes on and *poof* enlightenment! It seems any kind of realization could be called "enlightenment".
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is sudden. Perhaps it is gradual. Perhaps there is nothing to "achieve" as we already have it; but need to realise it.

Gotta love this title :p :

Wanting Enlightenment Is a Big Mistake: Teachings of Zen Master Seung Sahn (978-1-59030-340-5) - Wanting Enlightenment Is a Big Mistake


I have always been interested in Buddhism, but considered reincarnation to be bs.
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I think the Buddha did too, as he could not find a "soul" to re-incarnate.

Enjoy the course! :)

s.
 
Snoopy said:
Perhaps it is sudden. Perhaps it is gradual. Perhaps there is nothing to "achieve" as we already have it; but need to realise it.
Click to expand...
Sometimes like this?:
EWEDAMAN.gif


Gotta love this title :p :

Wanting Enlightenment Is a Big Mistake: Teachings of Zen Master Seung Sahn (978-1-59030-340-5) - Wanting Enlightenment Is a Big Mistake
Click to expand...

I like that title! :D
 
That foot thing may be quite enlightening;

Representing the fruitless fools of mankind; thinking they are balanced, but fail the meets and bound of nature eventually crushing them and finally stomped on by the foot of the total of humanity.



:)
 
StarshipEnterprise said:
Doesn't the concept of enlightenment contradict non-duality? Either you are enlightened or you are not. Sounds pretty dualistic to me. It makes more sense to me to think of enlightenment as a spectrum. Some are more enlightened than others, but there is no clear dividing line. Does this hold any merit?

Once you are enlightened, can you ever become un-enlightened?

If the answer is no, what if the enlightened person is falls victim to a car accident and suffers severe brain damage?

Maybe enlightenment doesn't make sense if you take it out of the context of reincarnation and Buddhist cosmology?

Am I utterly ignorant about the concept of enlightenment?

Please help!
Click to expand...
Dali Lama says once you are enlightened, everyone you see you see as enlightened. Not dualistic is it?
 
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