Chaos and other big discoveries

[Tao_Equus]

Cyberpi,

Stochastic f or pertaining to a process involving a randomly determined sequence of observations each of which is considered as a sample of one element from a probability distribution.

As this word is new to me I am forced to the dictionary and reading the above it seems to me that it is an artificial imposition, pertinent only because an observation(s) is made. So I am not really seeing the point of importance and why this word is your new vogue word. Sure in cyber art the introduction of stochastic variation on sets would produce more life like chaotic forms. Otherwise I see no relevance. So, my question is : are you using the word as its your flavour of the month or are you going somewhere with it?

The mandelbrot and fractals are not chaotic. They are not random. They are not stochastic. They are not disordered. They are complex perhaps, yet they are ordered and deterministic. In fact they are used to characterize and to remove that order from data to compact it and make better use of the bandwidth in communications.

I agree with every word you said on the post the above paragraph was taken from but as it was you that made it , there is one word notably absent. Infinite. Sets are apparently infinite. The equation suggests, to my unschooled mind at least, the infinite. What's your take on that?


tao

 

[seattlegal]

It is just like trying to calculate the exact value of an irrational number. Within the mandelbrot the finer the detail examined the more information there is in the coordinate and thus the lengthier the calculation. The diversity is in the number of bits in the coordinate.

Ahh, so that's why you get moiré patterns (aliasing) on photographs that have a lot of repeating patterns in it when you use a lower resolution?

 

[cyberpi]

Stochastic f or pertaining to a process involving a randomly determined sequence of observations each of which is considered as a sample of one element from a probability distribution.

As this word is new to me I am forced to the dictionary and reading the above it seems to me that it is an artificial imposition, pertinent only because an observation(s) is made. So I am not really seeing the point of importance and why this word is your new vogue word. Sure in cyber art the introduction of stochastic variation on sets would produce more life like chaotic forms. Otherwise I see no relevance. So, my question is : are you using the word as its your flavour of the month or are you going somewhere with it?

As a claimed student of science and evolution I would have thought the word 'stochastic' was in your vocabulary. I was using the word to describe what the M-set and fractals are not.

I agree with every word you said on the post the above paragraph was taken from but as it was you that made it , there is one word notably absent. Infinite. Sets are apparently infinite. The equation suggests, to my unschooled mind at least, the infinite. What's your take on that?

If you have infinite matter in an infinite space along with the infinite time and the infinite energy required to perform the infinite calculations, along with an infinite mind to see the infinite detail, then I suppose you can apparently see an infinite set. Good luck in your effort.

 

[Tao_Equus]

As a claimed student of science and evolution I would have thought the word 'stochastic' was in your vocabulary. I was using the word to describe what the M-set and fractals are not.

My only claim is that of general ignorance. True I have done a 1 year "introduction to Science" course through the Open University but that as it suggests is a broad look at many disciplines. I understood that you were describing what fractals were not, and was genuinely curious as to whether you were going somewhere with it, thats all. You do have a tendency to use certain words repeatedly and I had noted "stochastic" appearing with increasing regularity. Thats not an issue though and I thank you for teaching me a new word

If you have infinite matter in an infinite space along with the infinite time and the infinite energy required to perform the infinite calculations, along with an infinite mind to see the infinite detail, then I suppose you can apparently see an infinite set. Good luck in your effort.

Ohhh the effort will not be mine, I am well aware of my own finite potential. But in and infinite universe..........ponders.........oh dear maybe God does exist after all boy am I in trouble!!


tao

 

[path_of_one]

oh dear maybe God does exist after all

boy am I in trouble!!

Or perhaps not...

 

[cyberpi]

Ahh, so that's why you get moiré patterns (aliasing) on photographs that have a lot of repeating patterns in it when you use a lower resolution?

Well yes the math of aliasing is similar to the mandelbrot. In the frequency domain those repeating patterns represent a strong signal that gets aliased by the lower sampling resolution. The math of the mandelbrot would be similar if you sampled a picture over and over many times to obtain aliasing upon aliasing upon aliasing. Take a picture, resample digital, add back in higher resolution detail, resample digital, add back in higher resolution detail, resample digital, etc... to obtain moiré patterns upon moiré patterns... artifacts upon artifacts. The mandelbrot set could be understood as similar to the selection of photos which never turn white or black after many samplings, but always remain with a picture that is semi-distorted. The complexity of which pictures remain distorted is a function of the resolution and information in the originating pictures. With the actual mandelbrot set it is the resolution and information in the seed number.

 

[seattlegal]

Well yes the math of aliasing is similar to the mandelbrot. In the frequency domain those repeating patterns represent a strong signal that gets aliased by the lower sampling resolution. The math of the mandelbrot would be similar if you sampled a picture over and over many times to obtain aliasing upon aliasing upon aliasing. Take a picture, resample digital, add back in higher resolution detail, resample digital, add back in higher resolution detail, resample digital, etc... to obtain moiré patterns upon moiré patterns... artifacts upon artifacts. The mandelbrot set could be understood as similar to the selection of photos which never turn white or black after many samplings, but always remain with a picture that is semi-distorted. The complexity of which pictures remain distorted is a function of the resolution and information in the originating pictures. With the actual mandelbrot set it is the resolution and information in the seed number.

Interesting...

 

[cyberpi]

Tao, I will have to frame this:

oh dear maybe God does exist after all

 

[Bishadi]

chaos is entropic and life abuses entropy; we move to impose upon the environment. Life abuses entropy!

If the three prime items of existence are all OF; mass, energy within time.

Then the trinity of existence is within. all mass, all energy, all time: the total; ONE..... that script that combined these mathematically could literally be considered 'the name of God'

So off to reasoning;

if all measured 'parts' of the universe must be within x,y and z measured in time, then all existence is a part of the total entity of 'all of it'.

Meaning; if all camed from a single spark (i.e.. a big bang sort of beginning) then all space, mass/energy and time is unequivocally entangled to itself.

(see yin and yang)

where the cycles of 'when one extreme reaches its peak, it births the seed of its opposite' is simple the cycle of 'change' described into words.

So the sun combines mass until a threshold is reached and emits light (nuclear reactions) that thereby entangles more mass by exposure.

as light (energy) causes momentum to mass; this outbound in shared as well upon increased interraction this entangling; more mass is exposed to its source; gravity represents itself; mass entangled by energy.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus
It was like I was in every atom in the universe simultaneously, knowing its form, its history and its future. I describe it as living energy and it was. But I got no sense of conciousness, well at least not as we can describe it.

so if all energy is 'light' and all existence is entangled by energy in time; then this 'phenomenon' you present is literally 'a spooky action at a distance'.

and einstein and schroadinger were perplexed by this real occurrance but who knew then what they were tapping on was the very same phenomena that defines gravity itself.....

light is the energy of all life between mass; in time