I'd say this proves my point.
Chris
Which is?
I'd say this proves my point.
Chris
As usual, atheists are unable to defend their completely illogical beliefs and have to resort to invective as a defense never realizing that ad hominem comments are logical fallacies and provide even more proof of the illogic of the atheist belief system.
i think that you are, perhaps, projecting some of your own views upon others which do not share them in the first place. the term atheist indicates a lack of belief in deities, nothing more and nothing less. there is no belief system attached to the term though it is certainly possible to have a philosophical system which is atheist in orientation the terms are not equivalent.
most atheists like to proclaim that they lack a belief in deities. atheists are humans, like are theists, and prone to the same fallacies and faulty thinking as any other. the only thing that makes one an atheist is a lack of belief in deity.
at this point i have to presume that this is farce.
i'm pretty sure that you're not sure what the term atheist means. it means there is no belief in deity one way or the other and thus we search not for that which is nonexistent.
OMG!! Netti has a disciple cutting and pasting from his words How very predictable.
Organized atheism? Organized for self-control or organized with the aim to influence/control others? How about Evangelical Atheism?
I've noticed how Dawkinism closely resembles a religion--where the belief in God is replaced with the belief of 'No God.'
atheist is a term which simply indicates a lack of belief in deity. heck, as there are different flavors of theist (christian, muslim, hindu etc) there are different flavors of atheist, some atheists don't believe in any deity, some believe there are no creator deities and some believe that the deities of other religions don't exist. there are atheists that positively assert the nonexistence of deity (strong atheist) whilst others maintain there is no intersubjective evidence of deity and withold belief until such time (weak atheist) and probably a whole lot more that i don't know.
~v
I find the whole Dawkins entourage thing a little strange. I mean, good for him, he's got groupies, but it just seems odd. I'm sure he enjoys it, though. I don't have much use for organized atheism. That's why I'm loathe to use the label. I do think that it functions somewhat like a religion at the (sort of) support group level. Kinda like how AA has a religious feel in a way. Maybe it's a substitute for the sense of identity one gets from the social aspect of organized religion. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can do without the "ism" part.
Chris
I like to hear Dawkins speak and view him as a comedian, His main argument being the same old evolution VS. creation. Yawn. His books are not special. I will miss Carlin because he was real trooper that, told it like it is and if you were offended, mute it and do not listen. I found him to be so serious and honest in his approach that you could not help but feel amused and delighted.
Which is?
omprem said:You are quite mistaken.
perhaps, i've been mistaken about a great many things in my life thus far and it wouldn't be unusual to be mistaken about a great many more such consideration, however, doesn't cause me to have much worry.
You have forgotten to factor in the reasons why atheists 'lack a belief in deities'. They believe that sense impressions represent some sort of reality.
i know many atheists and am one myself yet the reason that you are providing is not my reason nor the reason of those that i dialog with that call themselves atheist. of course it is quite possible that there are atheists that are such for the very reason you suggest.
Consequently they believe in the supremacy of empiricism and its handmaidens reason, logic, language, space and time.
pretty much all beings rely upon reason, language and logic and spacetime requires no belief.
They mistakenly believe themselves to be discrete beings.
interestingly i've found the opposite to be true in that most atheists have a variety of views regarding the existence of self and their arising in a quantum universe.
Part of their belief system is a disbelief in paranormal activity, in miracles, in the validity of non-linear learning styles, in the ability to acquire information in any way other than through empiricism. They tend to believe that consciousness is a biochemical process in the brain. They believe that religions postulate an individuated God. In addition, they demonstrate a lack of curiousity and an attachment to several logical fallacies, namely, over-generalization, argumentum ad nauseum, argumentum ad hominem, argumentum ad verecundiam.
such logical fallacies are prone to all beings irrespective of their religious orientation or lack thereof. in fact ones belief in deities seems to have no particular bearing on ones engagement in logical fallacies. the only thing that atheists have in common is a lack of belief in deities they may have widely disparate views on everything else.
Denial and ridicule is the stock in trade of atheists and others who cannot defend their views.
i choose to view your post as farce for otherwise it would be quite in breech of the Code of Conduct which you agreed to when you joined the forum. giving you the benefit of the doubt seems to be a fine way to go about it.
Your own statement with its mention of 'nonexistent' clearly shows that atheism is not just a lack of belief in God but rather an active disbelief in God. Again, God is not individuated and therefore will not be known through an empirical search.
you've confused my individual view with those of other beings which you've managed to do consistently through this thread. i do not understand why you find it so difficult to understand that the term atheist means lack of belief in deities and that a being which has that lack of belief may hold all manner of other beliefs which are not held in common by other atheists.
the simple fact of the matter is that atheists aren't like what you are portraying and you're not really keen to accept this. you've come to your conclusions and even were an atheist to explain that you've misunderstood their views you wouldn't believe them. i'm unclear what possible value such a view could have.
metta,
~v
Swedes have been found to have low prevalence rates for "belief in God": about 45%.
Which is that you don't know what the f uck your talking about.
Have a nice day!
Chris
i know many atheists and am one myself yet the reason that you are providing is not my reason nor the reason of those that i dialog with that call themselves atheist. of course it is quite possible that there are atheists that are such for the very reason you suggest.
pretty much all beings rely upon reason, language and logic and spacetime requires no belief.
interestingly i've found the opposite to be true in that most atheists have a variety of views regarding the existence of self and their arising in a quantum universe.
such logical fallacies are prone to all beings irrespective of their religious orientation or lack thereof.
in fact ones belief in deities seems to have no particular bearing on ones engagement in logical fallacies.
the only thing that atheists have in common is a lack of belief in deities they may have widely disparate views on everything else.
i choose to view your post as farce for otherwise it would be quite in breech of the Code of Conduct which you agreed to when you joined the forum. giving you the benefit of the doubt seems to be a fine way to go about it.
you've confused my individual view with those of other beings which you've managed to do consistently through this thread. i do not understand why you find it so difficult to understand that the term atheist means lack of belief in deities and that a being which has that lack of belief may hold all manner of other beliefs which are not held in common by other atheists.
the simple fact of the matter is that atheists aren't like what you are portraying and you're not really keen to accept this. you've come to your conclusions and even were an atheist to explain that you've misunderstood their views you wouldn't believe them.
i'm unclear what possible value such a view could have.
Recognizing the world you live in is not a denial of reality but the awareness of if. What good is shapeless sophistry in it? What is a man without his senses? He is crazy.....the mistaken view that sense impression is reality.
and I will show how that belief rests on the mistaken view that sense impression is reality.
I suggest that you tell us why you are an atheist
The plea of self-evidence is only convincing to those who are afraid or unable to examine their belief. You have just proved my contention that you and all atheists rely on sense impression as reality. In fact, sense impression is illusion. For a start, consider that the senses have narrow thresholds and are prone to failure and than any machinery designed to augment the senses suffers from the same limits.
This statement of yours is the very lazy logical fallacy of tu quoque in which you agree that atheism is riddled with logical fallacies but seek to divert attention from that fact by claiming that so do other religions. You provide no evidence that other religions do so. Nor do you seem to appreciate that being 'prone to logical errors' does not mean that one actually makes logical errors as the atheists do.
There is no religion that postulates individuated gods.
Plus religion is not a matter of belief but of direct experience of the Divine. Additionally, religion uses supra-rational, supra-logical means of accessing the Divine so the notion of logical fallacies does not apply. You just made three errors in one sentence.
The core basis of making those decisions including the one about a lack of belief in deities is common. And in error.
Pointing out the logical fallacies of atheists, which includes the fallacies of denial and ridicule, is fair game. Your implied threat is yet another logical fallacy. Oh, yes, I should inform you that I have NEVER responded to threats in the way that the threatener hoped.
It is interesting to note that not just you but others in this group use similar threats and illogic (and not just toward me) when they run out of reasonable responses. It is quite childish really.
Wrong. Atheism means many things in addition to a lack of belief in gods.
The truth will set you free. Recognizing the lack of reason and logic in atheism (despite its claim to be depend on reason and logic) will allow you and other atheists to leave this dead end and regain a connection with your true nature.