If Jesus is God...

quakeyjase said:
why didn't he just say "I am God"?

:confused:
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He did.


John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, `I am the Son of God.'" John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.


Taken alone, statements such as "I and the Father are one." and "The Father is in me, and I am in the Father." could mean simply that Jesus agrees with God. But in the overall context of the Bible this cannot be:
John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
 
The Hebrew Scriptures are consistently clear in showing that there is but one Almighty God, the Creator of all things and the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. (Ge 17:1; Isa 45:18; Ps 83:18)


For that reason Moses could say to the nation of Israel: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force." (De 6:4, 5)

The Christian Greek Scriptures do not contradict this teaching that had been accepted and believed by God’s servants for thousands of years, but instead they support it. (Mr 12:29; Ro 3:29, 30; 1Co 8:6; Eph 4:4-6; 1Ti 2:5)

Jesus Christ himself said, "The Father is greater than I am" and referred to the Father as his God, "the only true God." (Joh 14:28; 17:3; 20:17; Mr 15:34; Re 1:1; 3:12)


On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father. (Mt 4:9, 10; 20:23; Lu 22:41, 42; Joh 5:19; 8:42; 13:16)

Even after Jesus’ ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.—1Co 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1Pe 1:3; 1Jo 2:1; 4:9, 10.






TheReal Jesus


AFTER learning from his apostles what people thought about him, Jesus asked them: "You, though, who do you say I am?" The Gospel of Matthew records the apostle Peter’s answer: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:15, 16)


Others were of the same opinion.
Nathanael, who later became one of the apostles, told Jesus: ​

"Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel." (John 1:49)
Jesus himself spoke of the importance of his role: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) ​

On various occasions, he referred to himself as "the Son of God." (John 5:24, 25; 11:4)
And he backed up this claim by miraculous works, even raising the dead. ​


yes Jesus is one in unity and purpose with his father JEHOVAH ​

and he said that he and the father are one , not to mean that he was God, but it was to mean that they were in unity of purpose . ​








​

 
Christians love to quote the words of Jesus: "I and my father are one" (John 10:30) to prove Jesus is God. However, this verse is usually never quoted in its proper context. To get context read the entire passage. Start with the next verse:

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:31-33)

Notice very carefully what is happening. The Jews think that Jesus is claiming to be God when he said "I and my father are one", so this is blasphemy and therefore they wanted to stone him to death. Now let us see how Jesus responds to this accusation that he is pretending to be God.

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods?" (John 10:34)

So Jesus justifies himself by quoting from the book of Psalms: "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." (Psalm 82:6-7)

This clearly shows that Jesus wasn't literally claiming to be One with God, or His literal son, He was using this metaphorically, because the words "god" and "son of God" are used throughout the Bible, yet no Christian takes them literally, there is only one God! Here are some examples:

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)

-Here God says that Moses is like a god to pharaoh. Obviously it doesn't literally mean Moses is God.

This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son (Exodus 4:22)

Here, God calls the entire nation of Israel as His firstborn son. Obviously this is not literal either.

Adam, the son of God (Luke 3:38)

Here the author of the gospel of luke says that Adam is the "son of God".

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. (Matthew 5:9)

And these are the words of Jesus where he said the peacemakers are the sons of God.

So it is very clear that "son of god" or even "god" is used metaphorically throughout the Bible. Why do Christians inconsistently interpret the Bible, saying everyone else is a son of God figuratively, but when Jesus is called son of God it has to be interpreted literally?!
 
I prayed to god asking for guidance on the matter... lol I then closed my eyes and brushed my fingers through the bible lol.... Crazy huh? Anyway I got this feeling.. And I stopped, the page that came up was Acts 17. And I don't want bore you with how I find this fascinating but part of the page I was on read the following:

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Acts 17:30-31
---
In the past God over looked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he shall judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead...
---

YHWH appointed and raised jesus from the dead.
 
Oh, you're just making that up, Alex! I'm going to look it up, myself.....
 
Abdillah said:
Christians love to quote the words of Jesus: "I and my father are one" (John 10:30) to prove Jesus is God. However, this verse is usually never quoted in its proper context. To get context read the entire passage. Start with the next verse:

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:31-33)...
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Yes Abdillah, they were about to stone Jesus because they said "...you, a mere man, claim to be God." Where did they get that idea, unless Jesus gave it to them?
 
Abdillah said:
Why do Christians inconsistently interpret the Bible, saying everyone else is a son of God figuratively, but when Jesus is called son of God it has to be interpreted literally?!
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We don't misinterpret; we have the words of the prophets and the words of the Father that all point to Christ as Lord God and Saviour, unlike the quran which does not hold these type of scriptures, you would have to look elsewhere for these scriptures that all point to Jesus Christ as the messiah.

The Bible in numerous places calls Jesus the Son of God. But, it does not mean that Jesus is the literal offspring of God.

The Muslims need to as ask what does that term mean, in its historic and biblical context. Instead of imposing upon the biblical term a meaning that is foreign to it, the Muslim should learn what the Bible means by the term and think of it in the context as revealed in the Scriptures where it is used. To not do that would be the same as me taking a term out of the Qur'an, remove it from its Qur'anic context, and applying another meaning to it and then saying what the Qur'an teaches is false. The term “Son of God” is used in different senses in the Bible. But, never does it mean that God has a wife and produces offspring.


The term “son of God” is used in two main ways in the Old Testament. Neither way denotes any physical relation to God. Rather, the references deal with those who are under divine obedience to the call of God. It is used of Israel as a nation through the Exodus. Hosea 11:1 says, “When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.”1 It is also used in reference to angels. Job 1:6 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.” Also, in Job 38:7 it says, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" These are in reference to angels who are created beings and in no way implies literal dependency from God.


The Term "Son of God" occurs 47 times in the King James New Testament. In reference to Jesus, it is a title as the heavenly, eternal Son who is equal to God the Father (John 5:18-24). It is Jesus who fully reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27). He is the exact representation of the Father (Heb. 1:1-3), He possesses all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18), and Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5).


The Muslim is taught from the Qur'an and therefore cannot accept the fact that Jesus is divine. To the Muslim, that is shirk, blasphemy of the worst kind. But believing it doesn't make it so. To the Christian, and according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who alone saves us from our sins. We cannot earn our way to heaven, perform enough good works to please God, or ever be "sincere enough" in repentance to somehow obtain forgiveness from God. Instead, Christianity is a faith of God's great love and sacrifice for His creation. Jesus, the Son of God, is the divine one who fulfilled prophecies, walked on water, healed the sick, and rose from the dead. Only the Son of God can do these things.
 
Yes Abdillah, they were about to stone Jesus because they said "...you, a mere man, claim to be God." Where did they get that idea, unless Jesus gave it to them?
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They got the idea because they (just like Christians today) misintepreted the words of Jesus, which is why Jesus had to clarify to them what he really meant by quoting Psalm 82.

I swear on my mothers life...
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You should not swear by anything other than God Himself.
 
Jesus is not god and is not divine. He is a human being, he came out of a woman's womb, he had to eat, drink, sleep and go to the bathroom like any normal human. If you say he is god, than you are reducing God to a human being with bodily functions and this is a great insult to the Holiness of God. Jesus said: "By myself I can do nothing" (John 5:30), what kind of God can't do anything by himself? Jesus said "Why do you call me good, only God alone is good." (Mark 10:18), and the person who was calling him good stopped calling him good. All this clearly shows that Jesus himself did not consider himself to be divine, and neither did his companions and early followers. And there is no prophecy in the scriptures which says the messiah will be divine. This is the reason Jews don't believe in Jesus, because Christians have presented him as divine, and Jews know the messiah is a great righteous person, but he is not divine.

There is only One God, not two or three. Jesus cannot breathe without Allah's permission, every heartbeat of Jesus requires pre-authorization from Allah. All praise, devotion, glory and credit belong to Allah alone. Jesus is Allah's humble slave who must do whatever Allah tells him. Worship the one true God, not a human being. Human worship originated from the pagans and has nothing to do with the great faith of Abraham.
 
Quahom1 said:
Yes Abdillah, they were about to stone Jesus because they said "...you, a mere man, claim to be God." Where did they get that idea, unless Jesus gave it to them?
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The angel Gabriel told Mary:
Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.​
It seems many people called him the Son of God, including the demons whom he cast out of people.
I find his exchange with Satan on the mountain to be the most telling:
Matt 4:1-11
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,


‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.​
 
Alex P said:
I prayed to god asking for guidance on the matter... lol I then closed my eyes and brushed my fingers through the bible lol.... Crazy huh? Anyway I got this feeling.. And I stopped, the page that came up was Acts 17. And I don't want bore you with how I find this fascinating but part of the page I was on read the following:

---
Acts 17:30-31
---
In the past God over looked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he shall judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead...
---

YHWH appointed and raised jesus from the dead.
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Indeed, Jesus had a dual nature, that of God and that of man. The man died (physically), but when risen again three days latter, the body transfigured into and incorporial vessel (that's why no one could touch him in the beginning, and he "glowed"). (You can find that part in the Gospels).

v/r

Q
 
I sometimes get the feeling it is like when Paul landed upon the isle of Malta and while gathering timbers for the fire he was struck by a viper... Yet when removing the viper into the fire he had no ill effects.... The islanders... Saw him as a god.... The day after when he was informed of the estate of Publius where the head of the famiuly was very ill and sick with fever... Paul prayed (to the real god) and placed his hands upon him and healed him of his ills.... (praise be;)) Other islanders from all around came to be cured and gathered... Paul indeed showed divine powers... But they were not his powers... He was simply the vessle... Yet it seems a little like the story we see with jesus I personally feel...
 
Alex P said:
I sometimes get the feeling it is like when Paul landed upon the isle of Malta and while gathering timbers for the fire he was struck by a viper... Yet when removing the viper into the fire he had no ill effects.... The islanders... Saw him as a god.... The day after when he was informed of the estate of Publius where the head of the famiuly was very ill and sick with fever... Paul prayed (to the real god) and placed his hands upon him and healed him of his ills.... (praise be;)) Other islanders from all around came to be cured and gathered... Paul indeed showed divine powers... But they were not his powers... He was simply the vessle... Yet it seems a little like the story we see with jesus I personally feel...
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Indeed, you are correct. Jesus put away his divinity to walk as a man (there was no other way he could do what he had to do here). So he had to depend upon the divine state he no longer carried, to help him accomplish his mission on earth.

He, humbled himself for the sake of mankind.

v/r

Q
 
Alex P said:
I only meant about him being confused as god for doing the will of god.

John 16:31 "You believe at last!" Jesus answered to his disciples.......
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What confusion? He knew exactly who he was, and so did those that hunted him down. Two thousand years later, they still can't make him disappear. Interesting...
 
One way I've heard this described that I found helpful is to consider that Jesus knew his vocation...that he was sent by God to be the Messiah, and he knew where that would eventually lead. I'm not sure he knew he would end up crucified, but he knew God's love, he 'remembered' his vocation to show what the love of God is, not the power of the sword but a love that gives up all, and he knew that God would be victorious.

Anyway, I think what is significant is that his disciples and those around him recognized him as the Son of God, rather than Jesus preaching on a street corner "I am God incarnate, and so by my authority you should listen to me."

Instead, he showed God's love and the people responded, for better and for worse.
 
lunamoth said:
One way I've heard this described that I found helpful is to consider that Jesus knew his vocation...that he was sent by God to be the Messiah, and he knew where that would eventually lead. I'm not sure he knew he would end up crucified, but he knew God's love, he 'remembered' his vocation to show what the love of God is, not the power of the sword but a love that gives up all, and he knew that God would be victorious.

Anyway, I think what is significant is that his disciples and those around him recognized him as the Son of God, rather than Jesus preaching on a street corner "I am God incarnate, and so by my authority you should listen to me."

Instead, he showed God's love and the people responded, for better and for worse.
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Indeed, he had to have man recognize him for what he is, by their own revelation. However, Jesus knew (he astounded the priests and elders with his knowldedge at the age of 12, nearly gave his mother a heart attack in the process, then submitted to the will of his parents until his age of manhood), who he was. He "taught" scripture and interpreted it in ways that only the blessed before could. It was as if he wrote them himself, a long time before...;)
 
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