Can God be insulted?

[TheLightWithin]

Perhaps God is above such things.
Whom do we ask?

 

[Autumn]

Perhaps God is above such things.
Whom do we ask?

One can have an experience. But it is not always possible to explain it. And if you try to explain it, there is a possibility the other one can not understand it.

 

[Thomas]

I think the offence is more against our true nature.

 

[wil]

This falls into my thought of why would I want to worship a G!d that needs or demands my worship?

Would be interested in a G!d so petty that anything Her creation did she would find insulting?

Me thinks I first had this problem in elementary school Sunday school learning about the flood...

 

[Thomas]

Me thinks I first had this problem in elementary school Sunday school learning about the flood...

OK ... and did you look for answers to it?

You're not alone in having a crappy Sunday school education – my Catholic secondary school education was 'problematic' to say the least!

Depends on how we approach the problem ...

 

[wil]

OK ... and did you look for answers to it?

Lol....nah...I found this site and more confusion...lol.

 

[TheLightWithin]

OK ... and did you look for answers to it?

What kind of answers would a child in catechism, before the internet, have had access to?
I'm not saying there weren't any, but what would you suggest?
Science books? New Age spirituality for a refreshing view?
Depending on the community those would make some Sunday School teachers or parents flip their lids.

 

[Thomas]

What kind of answers would a child in catechism, before the internet, have had access to?

Well, there's the rub ... parents, teachers, peers ...

I'm not saying there weren't any, but what would you suggest?

I can only say if one's unhappy with the answers, take up the search for oneself ... and I'm still learning!

(And a blind ally or two along the way ... and missed opportunities too, I fear.)

Science books? New Age spirituality for a refreshing view?

Science, yes. New Age? Nah (what would you expect me to say?) Boutique Religions of the New Age are reflections of a consumer mindset.

Depending on the community those would make some Sunday School teachers or parents flip their lids.

Yep, there's no denying that.

I caused a few lids to be flipped in my day ... and had my own lid flipped more than once.

I suppose I am never quite satisfied with an answer ...

 

[talib-al-kalim]

A point was raised on another thread about whether God might be insulted by a particular perception.

Do as a point of discussion in itself - can God be insulted?

Does anyone here believe they can say and do anything that would cause God to be insulted?

Or is that impossible?

OR quite possible and frequently practiced, yet we've merely grown accustomed to it?

One for discussion.

We have a humanoid image of God, which helps us to pray, to understand the teachings that would lead us into a life in accordance with God's creation and the right action in our society.
But God, the principal, the principle, the final One holding all, is not human at all.
If we assume that God may be insulted, we apply the humanoid imagine of God to direct our thoughts. That's not problematic, even helpful, but it is a myth or a parable.
So, the answer for our religious practice and faith is a yes, although it may be untrue as seen under a philosophical understanding of truth.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Science, yes. New Age? Nah (what would you expect me to say?) Boutique Religions of the New Age are reflections of a consumer mindset.

I grew up with ideas that I guess would be classified under New Age for lack of a better term. It's sort of a hodgepodge.
What was talked about? Ghosts, astrology, horoscopes, numerology, psychics, my grandmother had a Ouija board at one time, my aunt might have been into more far out stuff than that, my mom used to get tapes from this person Jonathan Parker | Guided Meditation Retreats & Self Help Programs though in those days it was either the Institute of Human Development or Gateways Institute or something (previous incarnations of the same)

I can say I learned a good deal, and a "worldview" for lack of a better term that is most definitely in contrast to Christian or Jewish or Mormon teachings.

So as far as what I or anyone could expect -- expect? you to say - well I don't know if expect is quite the right word, but as to what I might think it to be possible for you to say: you COULD say it is a source of information, one of many. But it has a lot to do with how much you know about that market and/or that knowledge base, what your biases are, etc.

At the very least, the consumer market for non-Christian spiritual information is pretty deep, the curiosity of people for more knowledge about "what lies beyond" is casual for some and insatiable for others.

So yeah, I think if someone is dissatisfied with what they are taught at Sunday school this arena is a source of contrast if nothing else. As always you get a bigger picture reading widely. And it would surely flip lids!

Since I wasn't raised in that kind of environment (I was kind of on the edges of a Methodist youth group as a teen but other than that no) I didn't have as many chances to flip lids. I guess the questions I asked at the Methodist bible study may have unsettled some. If I had bought too deeply into the regular churchianity it would have flipped my mom and grandpa's lids for sure. (maybe grandma too)

This has me thinking about how important freedom of religion and freedom of the press are, and respect for private property (new age book stores being able to sell their wares despite what fanatics might think. I hope we don't lose this in my country. This might sound too political so I will end my rambling thoughts here.

 

[Thomas]

I grew up with ideas that I guess would be classified under New Age for lack of a better term. It's sort of a hodgepodge.

I threw myself into it whole-heartedly. I was in what we today would call a cult for a decade.

Tarot. Astrology. Hermeticism. Gurdjieff. Auras. Astral Travel ... my 'aura wash & brush-up' used to be a thing to behold, apparently.

Curiously, we I studied Reiki, and we started doing exercises, it was a case of deja-vu.

My sisters have seen 'ghosts'. I haven't, but I can sense presences. Can't see auras, but I can feel 'em. When I used to lecture, I often worked with a seer as back-up. I was told one time, "every time the colours in the room changed, you mentioned it."

I did an open-evening question time once. At the end, speaking to people, one person said, "To be honest, I couldn't follow what you were saying a lot of the time, it went over my head."
"OK," I said. "I hope I didn't bore you."
"No, it was fascinating. Sometimes, when you were speaking, it was you. Sometimes I saw a very young boy. Then other times, I saw a really old man. What was that about?"

And there were things I came face to face with, I cannot fathom nor adequately explain ... or explain away.

+++

My constant references to David Bentley Hart is because I happen to believe, as he insists, we have moved a million miles away from those first Christian years. Christendom is a terrible indictment of what we did with the Gospel.

What the Church should do is seek to ignite that enchantment, that wonder, that awe and Mystery that was lived and breathed then.

It was lived and breathed when I was in the cult. I have an understanding, a sense of Early Christianity based on that ... a resonance across time.

+++

New Age writers bang on about 'living in the now' – but that's nigh-on impossible when our lives are safe and sane and predictable. If you want to live in the now you need a shock to jolt you out of comfortabilities. That what koans do. That's what Scripture can do.

As soon as we settle ... we sink.

+++

And I am rambling ...

At the very least, the consumer market for non-Christian spiritual information is pretty deep, the curiosity of people for more knowledge about "what lies beyond" is casual for some and insatiable for others.

My issue with so much "non religious spirituality" is it's simply humanism, and there's nothing wrong with that, but too often it's humanism with a dose of 'whoo-hoo' pseudo-spirituality, to appeal to a broader consumer market.

As I understand it, way more Americans believe in angels than believe in Jesus.

Then I would ask, do they believe in the powers, principalities, thrones, dominions, etc., that come from the same place?

I doubt it.

This has me thinking about how important freedom of religion and freedom of the press are, and respect for private property (new age book stores being able to sell their wares despite what fanatics might think. I hope we don't lose this in my country. This might sound too political so I will end my rambling thoughts here.

In the UK we have Watkins Books – "Established over 130 years ago, we are one of the world’s oldest and leading independent bookshops specialising in Esoterica."
There was a time when I was a regular visitor ... I've still got a stack of books I bought there.

 

[Thomas]

Sorry all ... way off topic ...

 

[TheLightWithin]

As I understand it, way more Americans believe in angels than believe in Jesus.

Is this in some fashion ungood?

Even if you had a country filled purely with members of the various Abrahamic faiths, you could have this.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Sorry all ... way off topic ...

Maybe not. After all I have outright heard hard core fundamentalists who would claim that New Age religions or something like that are in some fashion "insulting" to God. And I have heard people in New Age or New Thought say the same about fundamentalists.

This brings it right back around to the topic, what counts as an insult, to whom is it directed and who feels it?

I hypothesize that it is humans who are insulted by other humans disagreeing with their theory (religious position) and that God is rather nobler and above all that. But that's just me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I hypothesize that it is humans who are insulted by other humans disagreeing with their theory (religious position) and that God is rather nobler and above all that. But that's just me.

The way I see it, is in terms of society and morality.
What we say and do, does not just affect us, but others as well.

G-d is not a person (like ourselves) who is "insulted" by our speech, but He has told us not to participate
in blasphemy for our own benefit. G-d is not in need from His creation .. it is we who are in need.

It is destructive to have murderers and adulterers amongst our population .. it is similarly destructive
to have people who disrespect authority amongst our population.
There needs to be a balance between individual freedoms, and those who are intent on destroying
society through immorality.

 

[Thomas]

Is this in some fashion ungood?

No, not my intent.

 

[Thomas]

We offend against our own true natures ...

As for God, I'm sure it's all 'water off a duck's back', as the saying goes ... why else did God make ducks?

 

[talib-al-kalim]

.. it is similarly destructive
to have people who disrespect authority amongst our population.

.. depends on whether the "authority" is respectful as well. We have to respect rules that are founded on consent or at least an absolute majority of the people, and respect God.
But I refuse to obey people who would force me to act against my values, and ulema who claim to be able to know the Will of God. As you said,

There needs to be a balance between individual freedoms, and those who are intent on destroy

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I refuse to obey people who would force me to act against my values..

Well, yes ..
..if you were being coerced to go fight a war in which you were not in agreement with, for example.

..but I believe it is our duty to respect others, and obey laws and rulers.
Anarchy is undesirable. Peace can only be obtained by mutual respect.