Compassion toward self

Hi netti,

Thanks for this. My initial thought is I’m not sure about the mixing of dharma and politics.


Netti-Netti said:
As it turns out, some things can't be totally subjectivized.
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I was not looking to; quite the opposite perhaps.


The fact is, the world is cruel and this cruelty is to a large degree institutionalized.
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I would contend that the fact is: the world is. The world is cruel is an opinion (IMO!). Everyone’s notions of what is and is not cruel vary, it seems to me. We all perpetrate cruelty, perhaps unintentionally, in the eyes of others.
Some people say “nature is cruel.” To me, this is, er, clearly rubbish. Nature is.
There are plenty of people who eat meat who don’t think that they are involved in a cruelty. To me (in my ignorant deluded mind)…

On the relative level there clearly is suffering and so compassion is of course needed wherever we can apply it. But the absolute reality is that there is no suffering. This paradox is the nature of reality. The true Buddhist view is no view (as clearly enunciated by Nāgārjuna).


s.
 
Netti-Netti said:
From a Buddhist Glossary:
Metta, in Buddhist Doctrine is the feeling one must first have towards the self; not in a narcissistic sense but in a sense of being content with who and what one is and assured that every effort has been made to exercise love and compassion towards all fellow beings. Then, and only then, can one spread the feeling towards all other beings in the universe.

Buddhism Depot: Buddhist Glossary

​
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I'm curious about this in relation to Jesus and Simone Weil. Jesus said

Luke 14

25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
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"We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him." Simone Weil
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Would you say that people expressing such an apparently negative attitude are capable of compassion towards self much less anyone else?
 
Namaste snoopy,

thank you for the post.

it is difficult to claim that the Madhyamika view is the "true" Buddhist view though it certainly is the one which is upheld by a great majority of the practice lineages. other lineages, however, would advocate the Chittamata view or Vaibhasika whilst still other lineages uphold the Sautantrika view.

it is, perhaps, more likely that the philosophical view which a being upholds has more to do with their own capacity than as an indication of the penultimate view.

metta,

~v
 
Snoopy said:
Hi netti,

Thanks for this. My initial thought is I’m not sure about the mixing of dharma and politics.
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Hi Snoopy,

I don't know about politics, Snoopy. The Buddha specifically said to stay away from politics because it leads to strife and mental unrest.

On the other hand, the social awareness and aspiration to improve the word and to promote social justice around us would seem to be inevitable byproducts of Buddhist principles of compassion. These things are all part of "the deal," so to speak:
How is wisdom integrated with liberative technique a liberation? Wisdom integrated with liberative technique consists of being motivated by the great compassion and thus of concentration on cultivation of the auspicious signs and marks, on the adornment of society, and on the work of development of living beings....
​
~Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra

This material world is our spiritual environment. And some Buddhists would say it: we purify ourselves by purifying our environment. We adorn ourselves by adorning the world around us. We become most truly ourselves by facilitating the well being of the world around us.
 
Vajradhara said:
it is difficult to claim that the Madhyamika view is the "true" Buddhist view
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I did think that you had enunciated this same no view previously, but no matter, I'm sure you're right in your more overall assessment. It seems to be the channel that I'm going along. :)

s.
 
Netti-Netti said:
Hi Snoopy,

I don't know about politics, Snoopy. The Buddha specifically said to stay away from politics because it leads to strife and mental unrest.

On the other hand, the social awareness and aspiration to improve the word and to promote social justice around us would seem to be inevitable byproducts of Buddhist principles of compassion. These things are all part of "the deal," so to speak:
How is wisdom integrated with liberative technique a liberation? Wisdom integrated with liberative technique consists of being motivated by the great compassion and thus of concentration on cultivation of the auspicious signs and marks, on the adornment of society, and on the work of development of living beings....
​
~Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra

This material world is our spiritual environment. And some Buddhists would say it: we purify ourselves by purifying our environment. We adorn ourselves by adorning the world around us. We become most truly ourselves by facilitating the well being of the world around us.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's probably impossible to refrain from muddying oneself in politics without engagement in the market place.

s.
 
Snoopy said:
I did think that you had enunciated this same no view previously, but no matter, I'm sure you're right in your more overall assessment. It seems to be the channel that I'm going along. :)

s.
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Namaste Snoopy,

please do not misunderstand i, too, adhere to the overall Madhyamika view. within Madhyamika there are sub-schools, the Prasangkia and Svantantrika, of which the Prasangika is the view upheld by my particular school of Buddhist practice.

as these are, the philosophical views, given to us under the same auspices as the Dharma it becomes difficult to proclaim a "true" this or that if we bear in mind the salient points of the Buddhist teaching of Upaya and reflect on our own progression along the path.

in some cases i note with some small chagrin that my view sometimes flits between several classes of philosophical object depending on the context and audience of the conversation.

accordingly it seems that my view is such that the philosophical view that one currently holds is "true" for them at the point in time when it is being held as it more closely matches their capacities and development at that point. all phenomena and noumena change and i see Buddhist philosophical views as a progressive, interrelated system which, in the end, must also be put down once we reach the Other Shore.

metta,

~v
 
Netti-Netti said:
Briefly: by identifying with the Essential Self that includes spiritual power and is not just a basis for judging one's imperfections.
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How can identifying with the Essential Self be achieved?

If self-acceptance is grounded in the Essential Self, then there are no limits on personal power except practical ones, and sometimes even those can be transcended.
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How this can be experienced?
 
Vajradhara said:
please do not misunderstand i, too, adhere to the overall Madhyamika view. within Madhyamika there are sub-schools, the Prasangkia and Svantantrika, of which the Prasangika is the view upheld by my particular school of Buddhist practice.
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At the risk of hijacking this thread...

What is your school, vaj? And what is your opinion of shentongpa view?

Z
 
I thought I'd get back to the orginal topic .... :)

Bhavana in Pali means "development." Metta Bhavana = the practice of cultivating loving-kindness, which is an aspect of the pimary virtue of Compassion. Metta Bhavana is an old and common Buddhist meditation practice. For some Buddhists, it's their primary practice.

Metta meditation helps plan for virtue by preparing the heart. It has three aspects :

* Visualizing your benefit in terms of freedom from afflictions

* Reflecting on your potential for compassionate action

* Mantra - Some would say the words "compassion" or "loving-kindness" and "gratitude" are good mantras. My feeling is that they can become abstract. My mantra is based on something I found in a novel by Thomas Wolfe. Your theme may vary. Any mantra is fine if it helps you connect with the feeling and bring positive qualities into the heart.
Inwardly: Radiating good will, compassion, and appreciation to yourself means to do no evil, to take pity on yourself by abandoning evil, and to be appreciative of the aims of virtue and morality.
​
Equanimity toward yourself is a component (SG):
To develop equanimity toward yourself means to be unruffled when the occasion calls for it. For instance, when you are ill and have done all you can to treat the illness, you should then limit your attention to the goodness in the heart.
​

The extended formula, in Pali and in translation, is as follows:

Aham sukhito homi - May I be happy
Niddukkho homi - May I be free from stress and pain
Avero homi - May I be free from animosity
Abyapajjho homi - May I free from oppression
Anigho homi - May I be free from trouble
Sukhi attanam pariharami - May I look after myself with ease.
​
Source: The Craft of the Heart


It's not a coincidence that the Metta text starts out with a focus on loving kindness toward self: "Once you feel complete good will toward yourself, you should share these feelings, spreading them to all others in general."
 
Zenda71 said:
At the risk of hijacking this thread...

What is your school, vaj? And what is your opinion of shentongpa view?

Z
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Namaste Zenda,

lovely to hear from you again.

within the formal schools i adhere to the Nyingma-pa lineage of practice though in my daily practice i take a Rime approach.

Shentong is opposed to Rangtong which are, both, applications of the Madhyamika philosophical position in their exposition of Shunyata. as a proponent of a Rangtong view it is my opinion that Shentongpas miss the subtle explanation of Shunayata proposed by Rangtongpas. the normative Shentong position would, in my estimation, be an amalgam of the Yogachara-Madhyamika position, which is not uncommon. perhaps the most salient point in the discussion is that both views are expedient means which arise from a different circumstance.

the Rangtong view is one which arises easily through a philosophical understanding of the Dharma whereas a Sentong view is one which arises easily through the experience of meditation. each view seems to be useful during different stages of a beings practice.

metta,

~vajra
 
Vajradhara said:
Namaste Zenda,

lovely to hear from you again.

within the formal schools i adhere to the Nyingma-pa lineage of practice though in my daily practice i take a Rime approach.

Shentong is opposed to Rangtong which are, both, applications of the Madhyamika philosophical position in their exposition of Shunyata. as a proponent of a Rangtong view it is my opinion that Shentongpas miss the subtle explanation of Shunayata proposed by Rangtongpas. the normative Shentong position would, in my estimation, be an amalgam of the Yogachara-Madhyamika position, which is not uncommon. perhaps the most salient point in the discussion is that both views are expedient means which arise from a different circumstance.

the Rangtong view is one which arises easily through a philosophical understanding of the Dharma whereas a Sentong view is one which arises easily through the experience of meditation. each view seems to be useful during different stages of a beings practice.

metta,

~vajra
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Thanks for replying. Lovely to hear from you too.

I am a novice when it comes to these sorts of philosophical discussions but am trying to learn, so this is interesting and helpful. If you have time, would you send me a PM and let me know what texts you have used to study Madyamika? I have just started (again) to try to read the teachings I have and I'm afraid I'm too thick to understand it. I am hoping that studying it from different approaches might help so I can compare and contrast the approaches... Experience is of course another matter.

Many thanks!
Z
 
I found some other suggestions for Metta Bhavana. For some reason it doesn't say to turn your computer off !!

The description suggests focusing on the basic meaning and intended purpose of the Bhavana practice. Bring into focus that:
love as the opposite of hatred, resentment, malevolence, impatience, pride and arrogance, and as a profound feeling of good will, sympathy and kindness promoting the happiness and well-being of others.

Now visualize your own face in a happy and radiant mood. Every time you see your face in the mirror, see yourself in a happy mood and put yourself in this mood during meditation. A person in a happy mood cannot become angry or harbor negative thoughts and feelings. Having visualized yourself in a happy frame of mind, now charge yourself with the thought; "May I be free from hostility, free from affliction, free from distress; may I live happily." As you suffuse yourself in this way with the positive thought-force of love, you become like a filled vessel, its contents ready to overflow in all directions.
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www.bps.lk/wheels_library/wheels_pdf/wh_365_366.pdf

The beginning of loving kindness toward others is wanting wellbeing for oneself. This is not a selfish thing. One is free to be compassionate toward others once one knows how to be compassionate toward oneself.

An important first step is letting go of perfectionism. The notion that you should be perfect is an attachment and an affliction. We become free of this attachment by dropping the false idea of needing to be perfect.

Perhaps perfectionism it is a false idea of needing to be in control. That being the case, it will be helpful to give up the idea of needing to be totally in control at all times.

If need be, turn off your computer, the radio, the TV. Just be by yourself and enjoy being good to yourself.
 
metta, in pali, sanskrit- maitri... translates as, basically, friendliness- of a friend, or from a friend.. although sometimes it is referred to as compassion, but ur right- karuna is a better word for compassion...
 
Francis king said:
metta, in pali, sanskrit- maitri... translates as, basically, friendliness- of a friend, or from a friend.. although sometimes it is referred to as compassion, but ur right- karuna is a better word for compassion...
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I'd be interested in your thoughts on Karuna Bhavana.
 
maitra- belonging to or given by a friend, friendly, well disposed, kind, belonging or relating to Mitra (a God)

maitreya- benevolent

maitrya- friendship

bhavana-

bhavan, (m) man, living being, creature...
 
the four immeasurables, or "boundless minds" or "brahma vihara- abodes, or seats or chariots (dependent on context) of Brahma,

they are- maitri bhavana- upeksha- pramudita-karuna- the only one I haven't spelt, is karuna, compassion...
 
what do I think about karuna...?

here's a joke... the four immeasurables are really- brahma vihara- so, should compassion be karuna, or should we see it as...

kara- a(a)na, becoming... karuna... kara- causing, making, causing, making, producing, plus ana...breath...

after all, breath is useful when "ucyate namah Brahmah", non?

lol...

what do I think about these four immeasurables (catur-apramanaya) full stop?

I will tell you a story...

A buddhist monk is walking through the forest, and below him, he sees a tigress and her cubs. He realises the tigress is injured, sick, almost dead, and the cubs too young to fedn for themselves. He is so filled with compassion he jumps down and offers himself to the tigress, for food, she eats him, its' game over.

This story is given to buddhists as an example of how great compassion is...

In truth, I would prefer my enlightened beings to be a bit more sensible.

He should think... mmm... villiage nearby... small children... tiger food... if tiger dies, and cubs die, better for villiage... all things wither, and decay, and end, so, sleep well, tigers. And off he would pop, to benefit people instead.

Today, I would hope the monk would say, aww, tiger cubs, wrap them in my robe, take them to sanctuary.

Regardless... these four immeasurable minds, or abodes of brahma, call them what you will, are considered to be ideal mental states for a buddhist, for a human being.

Unfortunately, while you can train yourself to think like this, and it takes around 18 months of constant self examination and observation of interactions with others, examining own thoughts, etc, etc, you cannot fake it.

Personally, I think these caturapramanaya come after the sunyata, not before. I do not consider a person enlightened because they are full of joy and want to help everyone and think everyone's great and everythings great, because I live in the real world, and it's not always great, and not everyone's a friendly soul, and not everyone's full of joy- and there's reason for that.

Ignoring reality is not the mark of a great sage. Should we be compassionate and try to empathise while they are herding us onto trains to be taken away to be gassed? Should we encourage a battered wife to feel equanimity for her abuser? Are we all that deluded we are so easily brainwashed?

For, unfortunately, that is what a lot of this is... an excuse to be exploited by ppl who want to turn your head and make you think the way they do. Can't be angry, no, can't dislike ppl who are scum, no, can't allow our little ego's to protest, can't show dislike, must always be happy...

How real is that?
 
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