Proof of God

[Resigned]

Oh. I wasn't arguing against that. Your kids could still have a terrific upbringing.

Of course they could. That begs the question then, “why does anyone need to instill the fear of burning flesh and eternal torment in children”?

Let me pose a question addressing the bigger picture. Of course, fear is a powerful motivator and the instillation of fear certainly exists in the belief system of the proffered Judeo-Christian realm of an afterlife. Other than happenstance, why do you believe that particular tale vs. another? I think I know why. - Keep in mind, that it is only a matter of time, parentage and happenstance that places us here discussing these issues.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago, and a long legged Greek beauty with flowing dark hair… record scratch sound effect!!!… whoa… sorry… got lost in the moment… if we were discussing these various issues a few thousand years ago, we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

 

[farhan]

House etc, is hardly a comparison, mate.

It depends on your point of view. House & God arnt exactly comparable. But parents transfer all their transferable prizest possessions to their kids. Concept of God, if lies in the list of these possessions will get transfered too. If not, then it wont.

Often too late by then, though. They have been indoctrinated

They can be indoctrinated either way. "My religion isnt worth of transfering" is in itself an indoctrination.

and (in the case of cirumcision), physically violated.

I dont think circumcision isnt that important issue.

 

[enlightenment]

I dont think circumcision isnt that important issue.

Why not?

If I formed a religion which speedily gathered many members, do you think the law would permit me to remove part of a baby's body, on the grounds of it being some ancient religous practice?

 

[farhan]

Why not?

If I formed a religion which speedily gathered many members, do you think the law would permit me to remove part of a baby's body, on the grounds of it being some ancient religous practice?

I guess because it isn't that important for me. Many people get it removed when adult for medical reasons. I don't see a big deal with that. Just like umbilical cord. It isnt that important, unlike the finger.

 

[enlightenment]

I guess because it isn't that important for me. Many people get it removed when adult for medical reasons. I don't see a big deal with that. Just like umbilical cord. It isnt that important, unlike the finger.

Medical reasons are different.

I speak of the motivator being based on a religous ritual.

Okay, swap finger for appendix.

If I started a religion which favoured the surgical removal of the appendix of any born child, would you support my freedom (sic), to have this done to my child?

 

[farhan]

Appendix is different. Its a full scale surgery, with anasthesia.

But if you can walk on water, or make a path in the sea, I might give it a second thought

 

[enlightenment]

I can ignite my farts.

Does that count?

 

[farhan]

It would have, if I wasent able to do it .

The fart igniting prophet ...hmmm

 

[enlightenment]

It would have, if I wasent able to do it .

The fart igniting prophet ...hmmm

Hey, my new religion is only a 'baby' right now.

Give me a few centuries!

 

[c0de]

Of course they could. That begs the question then, “why does anyone need to instill the fear of burning flesh and eternal torment in children”?

What "eternal punishment" are you referring to?
Hell is not eternal. And secondly, the system of
rewards and punishment is used by EVERY parent
to deal with his child. And in this case we're not
talking about stealing cookies from the cookie jar,
we are talking about murder, rape, etc.

Please try to take things in their proper context.

Let me pose a question addressing the bigger picture. Of course, fear is a powerful motivator and the instillation of fear certainly exists in the belief system of the proffered Judeo-Christian realm of an afterlife. Other than happenstance, why do you believe that particular tale vs. another? I think I know why. - Keep in mind, that it is only a matter of time, parentage and happenstance that places us here discussing these issues.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago, and a long legged Greek beauty with flowing dark hair… record scratch sound effect!!!… whoa… sorry… got lost in the moment… if we were discussing these various issues a few thousand years ago, we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

Correct! This is why God has not limited Heaven/Paradise for a select
group of Jews, Muslims and Christians. You think that all those Greeks
who lived in ancient times would be thrown in hell just because they
did not have the opportunity to read the Torah/Bible/Quran?
I don't know who believes that, but that is a very incorrect view.

Every individual human being will be judged according to his own
time, place & circumstances. In the Quran, God has said that heaven/paradise
is not limited to just Muslims. But anyone who has within his life, believed
in One God, and the idea that one day, he will be judged for his sins. That
is the only criteria, along with the doing of good works.

Honestly, I do not know how this proccess will happen, but I have faith,
that it would be fair.

 

[Dream]

Of course they could. That begs the question then, “why does anyone need to instill the fear of burning flesh and eternal torment in children”?
241

Are you talking to me? I've never believed in instilling fear of burning flesh and eternal damnation. I just don't think you can successfully eliminate religion by pretending not to be religious. (I also said this in post 229 responding to enlightenment).

...Of course, fear is a powerful motivator and the instillation of fear certainly exists in the belief system of the proffered Judeo-Christian realm of an afterlife.....why do you believe that particular tale vs. another?....it is only a matter of time, parentage and happenstance that places us here discussing these issues...... We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

241

Interesting....Although at this moment I am Christian by birth and culture rather than belief, I am getting your topic.

I think what enables and causes the instillation of these fears is family -- not religion. Religions sometimes latch on or make use of family neurosis. Family and religion are so tightly twisted together that they are practically the same snake. Get rid of family and personal neurosis, and you will get rid of the fear and irrationality. Unless you do that it won't matter if you erase all religions and make everyone forget they existed. Your supposed non-religion will become your child's religion, as surely as little boys make guns and swords from sticks in the yard.

So, why not permit kids to be kids, then if they want to follow a religion at some point in the future, then fine, that would be fair enough?
238

Are you talking to me? Go right ahead and do it for your own children. As you say it is your new religion, & your children with either thrive or not depending on how well you can prepare them for life. I did not object to your experiment.