are jesus and god equal?

[mee]

your quotes are taken out of context of the bible as a whole to strip jesus christ of his divinity as god, when jesus was on earth he emptied himself of his heavenly glory he had with god as god, that is why he says during his time as man and god on earth that god the father in heaven was greater than he on earth. make no mistake that only god forgives, that is why christ forgave sins, only god is salvation, that is why jesus saves, only god is alpha an omega, that is why christ is the first and the last, only god is i am, that is why jesus said i am he.

yes Jesus emptied himself and became as a man
To first-century Christians in Philippi, Paul addressed this exhortation: "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.
How grateful we are for the glimpses the Bible provides of Jesus’ prehuman existence! They surely strengthen our resolve to imitate his example of loyal service, especially now that he reigns as King of God’s Messianic Kingdom. Let us hail the "Prince of Peace," Christ Jesus, our Governor and Ruler "whose origin is from early times"!—Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2. he certainly emptied himself .
Jesus as the Word "emptied himself" of his heavenly glory,
When the Word "became flesh" he was no longer a spirit creature.
Indeed, he had to be a man in the real sense to fulfill this scripture: "We behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor." If Jesus had been a God-Man, he could not have been really "lower than angels." Nor is it reasonable to think that the great Sovereign of the universe, of whom it is written that "at no time has anyone beheld God," would take up human form and be "lower than angels."—Heb. 2:9; 1 John 4:12

 

[mee]

your quotes are taken out of context of the bible as a whole to strip jesus christ of his divinity as god, when jesus was on earth he emptied himself of his heavenly glory he had with god as god, that is why he says during his time as man and god on earth that god the father in heaven was greater than he on earth. make no mistake that only god forgives, that is why christ forgave sins, only god is salvation, that is why jesus saves, only god is alpha an omega, that is why christ is the first and the last, only god is i am, that is why jesus said i am he.

yes the whole of the bible harmonizes throughout, Jesus really was Gods son.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

yes the whole of the bible harmonizes throughout, Jesus really was Gods son.

yes and also he was the word and the word was with god and the word was god. anything that says otherwise is disharmony and false.

 

[mee]

yes and also he was the word and the word was with god and the word was god. anything that says otherwise is disharmony and false.

"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17. everything that the father Jehovah says is the truth .with no disharmony and falsehood attached

 

[BlaznFattyz]

YHWH God said: (I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4)("Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.")
Jesus Christ said: ("Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.") ("Revelation 1:18 Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.")

Thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16
The great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10
While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18
And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6
And Thomas answered and said unto [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Psalms 93:1-2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah...out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

Bless the LORD...who healeth all thy diseases. Psalms 103:2
[Jesus] healed all that were sick. Matthew 8:16

[T]he Father hath life in himself; John 5:26
so hath [God] given to the Son to have life in himself;
In [Jesus] was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4

[T]he Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; John 5:21
[T]he Son quickeneth whom he will. John 5:21

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:1
Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3
"[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

YHWH and Jesus are the first and the last, the Almighty.
YHWH and Jesus are redeemers.
YHWH and Jesus do not change
YHWH and Jesus are from everlasting
YHWH and Jesus are worshipped
YHWH and Jesus are glorified
YHWH and Jesus heal
YHWH and Jesus are life
YHWH and Jesus raise the dead
YHWH and Jesus are I am
YHWH and Jesus are incorruptible and holy
YHWH and Jesus forgive sins
YHWH and Jesus are the one true living God.

 

[mee]

YHWH God said: (I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4)("Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.")
quote]
This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. ........... Isaiah 44;6 yes there is no almighty God like Jehovah.

Who has been active and has done [this], calling out the generations from the start?​

"I, Jehovah, the First One; and with the last ones I am the same.
Isaiah 41:4
(Acts 17:26) And he made out of one [man] every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of [men],

(Isaiah 43:10) "YOU are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.

(Isaiah 48:12) "Listen to me, O Jacob, and you Israel my called one. I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last.
​

(Revelation 1:8) "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

 

[mee]

Jesus Christ said: "Revelation 1:18 Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.")
quote]

(John 5:21) For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to.​

(John 6:40) For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day."​

(Revelation 2:8) "And to the angel of the congregation in Smyr´na write: These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’ who became dead and came to life [again],
Jesus had died. But God did not leave him in Hades. On the third day Jehovah personally raised him to spirit life and conferred immortality upon him. Not only that, but God gave him "the keys of death and of Hades" to use in releasing others from mankind’s common grave and from the effects of Adamic sin. Because of being in possession of those keys, Jesus is able to raise his faithful followers from the dead. When he does so, he confers upon the spirit-anointed members of his congregation the precious gift of immortal heavenly life, just as his Father did for him.—Rom. 6:5; Phil. 3:20, 21.yes Jesus was the first to be raised by his father Jehovah , and he will be the last , because from now on Jehovah has given Jesus the keys to do the raising to life .yes Jesus has been given great aurthority Daniel 7;13-14

 

[mee]

Thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16
The great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14
.

For you are our Father; although Abraham himself may not have known us and Israel himself may not recognize us, you, O Jehovah, are our Father. Our Repurchaser of long ago is your name. isaiah 63;16
(Deuteronomy 32:6) Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way, O people stupid and not wise? Is he not your Father who has produced you, He who made you and proceeded to give you stability?...........yes in times past many forgot the true God and so it is today many forget the father Jehovah.
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken: "Sons I have brought up and raised, but they themselves have revolted against me Isaiah 1; 2
while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave himself for us that he might deliver us from every sort of lawlessness and cleanse for himself a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works.titus 13;14

Of​

the Great God and of [the] Savior of Us, Christ Jesus"
Tit 2:13—Gr., το​

υ μεγάλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων Χριστου ᾿Ιησου​

(tou me·ga´lou The·ou´ kai so·te´ros he·mon´ Khri·stou´ I·e·sou´)

 

[mee]

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

oquote]

For I am Jehovah; I have not changed. And YOU are sons of Jacob; YOU have not come to YOUR finish. 7 From the days of YOUR forefathers YOU have turned aside from my regulations and have not kept [them]. Return to me, and I will return to YOU," Jehovah of armies has said.
And YOU have said: "In what way shall we return?"​

8

"Will earthling man rob God? But YOU are robbing me."​

And YOU have said: "In what way have we robbed you?"​

"In the tenth parts and in the contributions. 9 With the curse YOU are cursing [me], and me YOU are robbing—the nation in its entirety. 10 Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect," Jehovah of armies has said, "whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want...........yes Jehovah blesses those who bless him, and return to him.he does not change.

Remember those who are taking the lead among YOU, who have spoken the word of God to YOU, and as YOU contemplate how [their] conduct turns out imitate [their] faith.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.​

Do not be carried away with various and strange teachings;hebrews 13;7-9 listen to Jesus and what he taught and then it will please our heavenly father Jehovah
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."

​

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Jesus and God share the same name YHWH and the same holy spirit, because jesus is gods son, and god has proclaimed him as the one god with himself. One example of this is seen in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus raised himself, the spirit raised him, and god the father raised him. because what one does, the others do, because they are one.

“The same spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)

"Now God hath raised up the Lord and will raise us up also by his power." (1 Cor.:6:14)
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."(Romans 10:9)

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body." (John 2:19-21)
"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."(John 10:17-18)

The return back to God which you speak, in truth is back to the one true living god, Elohim through Christ Jesus. Elohim which is the father, son, and holy spirit--all one God taking part in creation, resurrection of Christ, and salvation of man. The personal God that interacts with his people, whom he created with his hands, who he watches over and dwells with by his spirit when they call his name, who lied down his life and took it up again, and who will judge all for not believing that it is he who freed them from pharoah, he who had come in the flesh to save them from sin and death, it is the word of god--Jesus Christ the Lord.

 

[cyberpi]

make no mistake that only god forgives, that is why christ forgave sins, only god is salvation, that is why jesus saves, only god is alpha an omega, that is why christ is the first and the last, only god is i am, that is why jesus said i am he.

Wow that stands out... Man no longer has the power to forgive? What religion is that from? If someone forgives you of a sin, you are FORGIVEN. Removed from the record. Gone baby. Not to be used against you. Expunged... deleted. Sin no more. Kiss that person as if he/she were your... not to mention their own. Magical words. Why carry a ton of weight? If you have sinned, drop everything and do anything to win those words, "I forgive you".

Matthew 9:6 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Why stomp on the roses? I submit that Christianity without man's power to forgive is like the last supper without Christ.

 

[pattimax]

Why stomp on the roses? I submit that Christianity without man's power to forgive is like the last supper without Christ.

Your submission is noted.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Matthew 9:6 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

The son of man was jesus christ and he forgave sins, only god could forgive sins; therefore, jesus is god manifested in the flesh as the saviour.
Jesus forgiving sins to all the people present knew that only god could do such a thing. there were not just words said with the appearance of sins being forgiven. there were in fact forgiven and to prove his power and authority to those that could not spiritually see he was god, he physically showed his power and authority in the healing of the lame. the trespasses against your fellow man are earthly, but the trespasses in your heart against god are spiritual. man can only try to forgive the first, god can forgive both, and only through the spirit of christ can you be born again.

 

[cyberpi]

The son of man was jesus christ and he forgave sins, only god could forgive sins; therefore, jesus is god manifested in the flesh as the saviour.
Jesus forgiving sins to all the people present knew that only god could do such a thing. there were not just words said with the appearance of sins being forgiven. there were in fact forgiven and to prove his power and authority to those that could not spiritually see he was god, he physically showed his power and authority in the healing of the lame. the trespasses against your fellow man are earthly, but the trespasses in your heart against god are spiritual. man can only try to forgive the first, god can forgive both, and only through the spirit of christ can you be born again.

I'm not sure which part are you denying: that you were also born from fleshly parents known as Man, or that Jesus presented a way or life for followers to follow. Consider these verses:

Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

I realize that you might not see yourself as a child of the Father, perhaps rendering these verses seemingly irrelevant, but did Jesus who you claim is the Father forgive sins without those individuals forgiving others? Despite his own words? If you believe Jesus was 'the' Son in flesh, and is your Father today, then wouldn't his words be True?

The following verses seem to expand and modify what forgiving others means. For example, it is not just empty words... loving is a way of forgiving:

Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Also while forgiving a repentence is unconditional, forgiving the sin is not without requirement:

Luke 17:3-4 ... "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back you you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

I would state it this way, "Forgive others as you would have them forgive you." Or, "Confess and repent to others as you would have others confess and repent to you." For me, both seem to fit well the definition of Love... "Love others as you would have them Love you". Are Jesus or God the only ones with the power to Love?

 

[JosephM]

The son of man was jesus christ and he forgave sins, only god could forgive sins; therefore, jesus is god manifested in the flesh as the saviour.
Jesus forgiving sins to all the people present knew that only god could do such a thing. there were not just words said with the appearance of sins being forgiven. there were in fact forgiven and to prove his power and authority to those that could not spiritually see he was god, he physically showed his power and authority in the healing of the lame. the trespasses against your fellow man are earthly, but the trespasses in your heart against god are spiritual. man can only try to forgive the first, god can forgive both, and only through the spirit of christ can you be born again.

BF,

Your asumption that only God can forgive sins is without Biblical merit unless you can show otherwise. And futhermore following that reasoning then whoever forgives sins is God. That would make Jesus's disciples God?
John 20:21-23
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. [22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Peace,
JM

 

[pattimax]

BF,

Your asumption that only God can forgive sins is without Biblical merit unless you can show otherwise. And futhermore following that reasoning then whoever forgives sins is God. That would make Jesus's disciples God?
John 20:21-23
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. [22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Peace,
JM

Hello JM,
Isn't God's forgiveness what Christianity is all about?
Ephesians 4:32
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

(I think it started with Him.)
sincerely, pattimax

 

[BlaznFattyz]

"Forgive others as you would have them forgive you." Or, "Confess and repent to others as you would have others confess and repent to you." "Love others as you would have them Love you". Are Jesus or God the only ones with the power to Love?

how can god forgive you if you do not forgive others? so of course we forgive and love others because it is right and because we ask the same of god. the main difference is the forgiveness of sins by god through christ jesus is eternal salvation, and that is something man cannot do on his own.

 

[mee]

Jesus and God share the same name YHWH and the same holy spirit, because jesus is gods son, and god has proclaimed him as the one god with himself. One example of this is seen in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus raised himself, the spirit raised him, and god the father raised him. because what one does, the others do, because they are one.

“The same spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)

"Now God hath raised up the Lord and will raise us up also by his power." (1 Cor.:6:14)
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."(Romans 10:9)

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body." (John 2:19-21)
"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."(John 10:17-18)

The return back to God which you speak, in truth is back to the one true living god, Elohim through Christ Jesus. Elohim which is the father, son, and holy spirit--all one God taking part in creation, resurrection of Christ, and salvation of man. The personal God that interacts with his people, whom he created with his hands, who he watches over and dwells with by his spirit when they call his name, who lied down his life and took it up again, and who will judge all for not believing that it is he who freed them from pharoah, he who had come in the flesh to save them from sin and death, it is the word of god--Jesus Christ the Lord.

But God both raised up the Lord and will raise us up out of [death] through his power.1 corinthians 6;4 yes Jehovah God raised Jesus from the dead, and the power that Jesus has been given to raise others comes from Jehovah .

(Acts 2:24) But God resurrected him (Jesus)by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it.​

(Romans 6:4) Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life.​

(Ephesians 1:20) with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,..............yes Jehovah raised his son Jesus from the dead.
(Acts 3:15) whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.
(Psalm 16:10) For you will not leave my soul in She´ol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.
(Romans 4:24) but also for the sake of us to whom it is destined to be counted, because we believe on him(Jehovah) who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
(1 Corinthians 6:14) But God both raised up the Lord and will raise us up out of [death] through his power.
(Colossians 2:12) for YOU were buried with him in [his] baptism, and by relationship with him YOU were also raised up together through [YOUR] faith in the operation of God, who raised him up from the dead
(Hebrews 13:20) Now may the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant, our Lord Jesus,................... yes there is no mistake about it ,Jehovah raised his son Jesus from the dead there is none like the Almighty Psalm 83;18
(Ephesians 1:20) with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,

 

[BlaznFattyz]

“The same spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)

seems pretty clear cut that the holy spirit of god raised christ, the same spirit that is also known as the spirit of christ also known as the comforter. who are you arguing with?

 

[Silas]

If Jesus isnt equal to God then He's in a lot of Trouble for changing God's laws. Jesus said:

"You have heard it said that you must not murder," but I say unto you..."

Hmm? Who is Jesus to jutapose God's commandments with His own sayings? Thats a brave dude, huh?