What is the problem with Islam?

"The young man boards the bus as it leaves the terminal. He wears an overcoat. Beneath his overcoat, he is wearing a bomb. His pockets are filled with nails, ball bearings and rat poison." That is the first four sentences of the book, End Of Faith by Sam Harris written, I believe, in 2004. Why do we so immediately know this young man's religion? There is the problem with Islam. Dogma!

Yes there are thugs and then there are fanatics that are dogma driven. Oh sure we can talk about many religions with asinine dogma and certainly no Abrahamic Religion escapes scrutiny. However, in the interest of brevity and to stay within the confines of the thread, I will limit my remarks.

Nuff said...
 
Yo Wil. Have no clue. You reckon it had anything to do with money, power or politics?Don't agree with that policy or the politics of that atrocious act.
 
paul said:
I had seen a slightly different translation before, that went something like they killed him not,but was made to appear so to them.

It actually says in one of the gospels, he gave up his life, it was not taken from him.

As to what christians understand, he knew it was coming, was willing, he wasn't overpowered and crucified as if they took his life against his will, but layed his life down willingly.

As I understand Christianity was established at the time of Mohammed, if he had something different to say on this subject to what Christianity taught, how come he didn't? Or did he address it more
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I would say the idea that Jesus (PBUH) was replaced by another person who was made to look like him is the most popular. (it is the most direct). The Quran discusses Jesus (PBUH) in detail. Mouhammed (PBUH) did not need to. The Quran discusses the idea of trinity, the crucifixion event, Jesus' (PBUH) Messiahship, and some of the miracles of Jesus (PBUH). I can't say that he didn't explain more, there are Hadiths that say he saw Jesus (PBUH) in Paradise and that Jesus (PBUH) will return to establish the Messianic age following a great war. But I do not know of any other Hadiths where he discussed Jesus directly (as it pertained to the Biblical Texts.
 
paul said:
So what does it say about the crucifixtion and the Christian beliefs?
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I think we are getting away from the point of this thread, but since you asked:

The Quran discusses things the Churches were already arguing about. Such as a trinity. It says specifically:
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. 4:171
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In this it also establishes that we are referring to the same Jesus (PBUH) by being the Son of Mary (PBUHer). It also addresses one of the divisions of Christianity, which is the Trinity.

The next verse clarifies his virgin birth as a fact and not the metaphysical meaning some Christians have claimed (not a widely held belief, but still one of them)
And remember when the angels said, "O Mary, God sends you the good news of a Command of His: his name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He will be highly honored in this world and in the Next World and he will be among those favored by God. He will speak to the people alike when in the cradle and when grown up, and he will be among the righteous." Hearing this, Mary said, "How, O Lord, shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me?" "Thus shall it be,"44 was the answer. God creates whatever He wills. When He decrees a thing, He only says, "Be" and it is. (Continuing their message, the angels added,) "And God will teach him the Book and wisdom, and give him the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel, and appoint him as His Messenger to the children of Israel." [FONT=verdana,arial]Quran 3:45-49 [/FONT]
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This came from IslamiCity.com - Jesus in the Quran which has a fairly lengthy explanation of Jesus in the Quran.

If this does not agree with you please come back with more questions. I don't feel as if I could give it as much justice or time as these people did.
 
EdgyDolmen said:
"The young man boards the bus as it leaves the terminal. He wears an overcoat. Beneath his overcoat, he is wearing a bomb. His pockets are filled with nails, ball bearings and rat poison." That is the first four sentences of the book, End Of Faith by Sam Harris written, I believe, in 2004. Why do we so immediately know this young man's religion? There is the problem with Islam. Dogma!

Yes there are thugs and then there are fanatics that are dogma driven. Oh sure we can talk about many religions with asinine dogma and certainly no Abrahamic Religion escapes scrutiny. However, in the interest of brevity and to stay within the confines of the thread, I will limit my remarks.

Nuff said...
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You are nowhere near the confines of the thread, go and start another one where you aren't bothering people.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
You are nowhere near the confines of the thread, go and start another one where you aren't bothering people.
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ACOT, I completely missed that post. Although he is being rude in the way he is leading the question, I started this thread really to alleviate these issues by discussion.

Edgy, Although I'd prefer you to be a little more respectful, I'll give you as much time as possible to ask a question or bring a point about dogma of Islam that is bad in your opinion. From your statement you seem to be basing religious views off of media accounts. I do not adhere to Media Islam, nor does 99% of other Muslims. If you have an issue with people, we can discuss people, in another thread please. If you think Islam as a religion is bad/wrong/etc. please put it in the form of a question or statement on exactly what you find wrong. Try not to post a link to an anti-Islam site as all I will put into it is to post a response from another site. It doesn't help because you won't read it. I prefer if you find 1-2 related things, and ask them. you may give as much reference to Quran or Hadith as you want to prove your point that we are bad/evil/murderers, but let's keep it to religion and not middle east politics and social issues. I am almost certain you hold many misconceptions. but who knows maybe you know something I don't about my religion.
 
EdgyDolmen said:
Yo Wil. Have no clue. You reckon it had anything to do with money, power or politics?Don't agree with that policy or the politics of that atrocious act.
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LOL....and you think the fact that our oil companies siphon money out from their ground, our bombs drop on their heads, our troops 'liberate' their land has ANYTHING to do with the troubled youth and turmoil in these countries and makes us easy targets??

too funny edgy

it is money, power and politics that breeds this hate that they and you hold.
 
Wil - what post are you reading. U quote mine but seem to be reading something else. I hold no hate for anyone. I made clear that there is enough fault to go around. I also made clear that I completely disagree with bombing innocent people - period.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
ACOT, I completely missed that post. Although he is being rude in the way he is leading the question, I started this thread really to alleviate these issues by discussion.
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My mistake, I thought people was suppose to come with questions.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
My mistake, I thought people was suppose to come with questions.
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they are, but I will accept statements what are wrapped around an idea that people find is a belief of Islam. The only thing is I cannot find what he has a problem with as Dogma is too broad of a statement. The only answer I could give him is, "no it isn't"
 
EdgyDolmen said:
Wil - what post are you reading. U quote mine but seem to be reading something else. I hold no hate for anyone. I made clear that there is enough fault to go around. I also made clear that I completely disagree with bombing innocent people - period.
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So do any real Muslims, that is why I asked what issue is it with Islam you hold contention with. I can give reasons I think people do things not prescribed in Islam, but I cannot defend a non-islamic act with Islamic faith. The problem I see with your original comment is you put it up as a jab, a quick prod to put a bit of contention against Muslims out there. Whereas these type statements seem to you to be nothing but example of issues, it is not a religious issue. If you think something in the religion pronounces this, we can discuss what those are as I am sure there is nothing in the Quran which if read with other data of the Quran could lead anyone to these acts.
 
BJN - I seem to have misplaced a post. I suppose it is lost in space. Anyway, as for my original post, I wasn't rude I was blunt and that is just what you asked for. I have apparently misunderstood this thread so I do apologize. I will bow out. If I continue to reply I will just get further out of bounds. I will catch you on another thread.
 
once again, If you have a perceived problem with the Islamic Religion, I encourage you or anyone to ask. If you want an explanation as to how something is justified/or if it is, ask. I don't mind bluntness, but put it in the form of a question or statement that is clear what you are looking at being the problem. Saying Islam in general for instance is too broad as I'm sure there are many things in Islam even Atheists agree with.
 
wil said:
Someone displaying their privates??

Seriously, it doesn't make sense that a woman walk x paces behind you for protection...it is clearly for dominance.... I am the one that leads.

I tend to walk my friends away from trouble not toward it...
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I'm from the culture where women used to walk behind men [my mum used to walk behind my dad] and I can guess why; it's not to do with dominance but to do with a form of Islamic culture; traditional muslim men and women are very modest; they feel shy even walking side by side of each other; it feels as if husband wants to enjoy the female company walking beside him; also some cultures are very sobordinate where the women mostly obeys the husband and there is not that mutual relationship where husband and wife are more 'friends' than a dependant obedient wife and the 'head of house'

and I think it has to do with men being able to walk a bit faster too; traditional muslim women mostly stayed in the house without much excersise [apart from housework] so they'd naturally would walk slower and the husband finds himself walking a bit faster so naturally leaves the wife behind a few steps!

this culture is of the past though and is dying out; the second and 3rd generations of muslims dont do this
 
Yay, someone else answering some questions.

Further explanation would conclude similar to Ahmad's answer. 1st off there's more that 10 commandments. One of the ones not on Moses's (PBUH) tablet that is mentioned in the Torah is to face Jerusalem to pray. But of what consequence it the day or direction? Is God not important every day, and is in every direction. What was special about Saturday more than Friday? Nothing really, just tradition. Tradition changed. So the direction of prayer was changed to focus on the Kabaa in Mecca, and the day for communion and teaching was switched to Friday. Most countries that I am aware of still largely maintain Saturday as a weekend day and a day off work. However (and someone correct me if I am wrong) Friday is not a day of no work as Sabbath was. It is encouraged for people to work Fridays, then meet for Jummah at the Masjid for Salaat and group teaching.
 
fschmidt said:
So is Friday a day of complete rest for Muslims?


Yes, which day of the week one keeps the sabbath is just tradition and basically irrelevant.


Why was this changed? The idea of the sabbath as a day of complete rest is strongly emphasized in the Old Testament.
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And If you accept Jesus (PBUH) as a prophet (or more... whatever), he pointed out that work doesn't discount the objective of the Sabbath. Meaning the communion part of the Sabbath remained, but the complete rest did not. With this assumption (I will admit it is purely an assumption as Jesus (PBUH) never clearly said that it is ok to work on Sabbath for this or that reason), I find a reasonable explanation to be that the "Command" to remember and maintain the Sabbath was originally misunderstood to include the resting which is one of the things Jesus (PBUH) was sent to correct.
 
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