What is the problem with Islam?

[BigJoeNobody]

Your assumption matches modern Christian thinking but conflicts with traditional Christian thinking. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are somewhat ambiguous on this, but generally support a less strict Sabbath. The Christians who most studied the Bible were the Puritans and they kept a very strict Sabbath.

Since I don't accept Jesus as a prophet, I don't think it is appropriate for me to judge what he said. But I would like to refer you to a Christian who has put considerable thought into the matter:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CM51SY/
http://www.eternallifeministries.org/awp_sabbath.htm

If I get time I will try to read through it. But I have to say that the highlighted part is your opinion. I'm sure Jahovah's Witnesses and Catholics, and well all groups would claim the same in their level of study. And each have various views on it as you have stated. As stated this is an assumption. I cannot attain any original texts of Jesus' (PBUH) teachings, nor talk to him myself (sit down Christians , this is a joke inside these parenthesis).

In the end, regardless of if the tradition changed, or the commandment was restructured, has no bearing. Complete rest is a fallicy, as even eating and breathing are forms of work if one is anal enough about definitions.

 

[wil]

I think it has to do with men being able to walk a bit faster too

You do realize you have to walk the same speed whether you are ten paces behind or side by side yes?

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I am not anal, and I don't think God is either. But I will wait until you have read the book I suggested before continuing with this topic.

This could be a while. ATM I don't have much time for reading extra books. I will try to remember it as time permits.

You do realize you have to walk the same speed whether you are ten paces behind or side by side yes?

I think the point of this is it is traditional, from an example, that has now been forced by a government, and now trying to explain why when it was never proclaimed as law by Allah, nor his Apostle (PBUH). It is a practice that went back to Jews, why it started, I really don't know. Or the logic behind it if there is some. We can only give possibilities unless it is directly diagnosed and prescribed and explained by Allah or his apostles (PBUTA). Same argument with no pork. It is prescribes as no. We can speculate for reasons, but in the end we don't know. The difference is the 10 paces behind or wherever isn't part of the Quran. Therefore we have no way of knowing IF it is supposed to be that way or not. With Pork we know that it is stated NO. The fact that people eat it in Christianity makes me wonder if Pork is the modern "apple tree" of Adam and Eve. <---- Question will be posted in Christianity forum

Either way I do not require my wife to walk behind me. And personally I see this as an invention in the religion (prohibited in Islam to add or take away), and this problem is getting worse and worse in countries where terrorism abounds (such as Saudi, Iraq, Syria, Iran (Shia in general), etc.). These additions are making divisions in the Ummah which is also prohibited in the Quran.

 

[farhan]

This could be a while. ATM I don't have much time for reading extra books. I will try to remember it as time permits.


I think the point of this is it is traditional, from an example, that has now been forced by a government, and now trying to explain why when it was never proclaimed as law by Allah, nor his Apostle (PBUH). It is a practice that went back to Jews, why it started, I really don't know. Or the logic behind it if there is some. We can only give possibilities unless it is directly diagnosed and prescribed and explained by Allah or his apostles (PBUTA). Same argument with no pork. It is prescribes as no. We can speculate for reasons, but in the end we don't know. The difference is the 10 paces behind or wherever isn't part of the Quran. Therefore we have no way of knowing IF it is supposed to be that way or not. With Pork we know that it is stated NO. The fact that people eat it in Christianity makes me wonder if Pork is the modern "apple tree" of Adam and Eve. <---- Question will be posted in Christianity forum

Either way I do not require my wife to walk behind me. And personally I see this as an invention in the religion (prohibited in Islam to add or take away), and this problem is getting worse and worse in countries where terrorism abounds (such as Saudi, Iraq, Syria, Iran (Shia in general), etc.). These additions are making divisions in the Ummah which is also prohibited in the Quran.

I havent seen any prophetic tradition saying this ten steps behind thing. If its a human tradition, then there is a place for it, you have all the right to choose to follow or not follow it. Just like drinking pepsi. Yes men are "Islamically" supposed to take care of their women, so if situation calls, two paces thing might be useful. But ten paces is more like leaving her behind, not good.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I havent seen any prophetic tradition saying this ten steps behind thing. If its a human tradition, then there is a place for it, you have all the right to choose to follow or not follow it. Just like drinking pepsi. Yes men are "Islamically" supposed to take care of their women, so if situation calls, two paces thing might be useful. But ten paces is more like leaving her behind, not good.

I agree, but saying it is religiously required is where I have issues. It is the law in some countries and they claim the law comes from Shariah, which it most clearly does not.

 

[farhan]

So is Friday a day of complete rest for Muslims?


Yes, which day of the week one keeps the sabbath is just tradition and basically irrelevant.


Why was this changed? The idea of the sabbath as a day of complete rest is strongly emphasized in the Old Testament.

Sabbath basically is leaving the world behind for sometime, and become purely focussed on God. I dont know what are the worship regimen in Judaism, but in Islam, we have 5 times a day of prayer and fasting in the 9th lunar month, both are kind of mini sabbath, first one everyday.

Why exactly was saturday changed with friday? I dont think any body has any idea. Because prophet muhammad said so. Just like why saturday? because Moses said so.

Most of the christian tradition was made after Jesus, not by him. So for muslims it not of much religious importance.

 

[Ahmad232]

So is Friday a day of complete rest for Muslims?


Yes, which day of the week one keeps the sabbath is just tradition and basically irrelevant.


Why was this changed? The idea of the sabbath as a day of complete rest is strongly emphasized in the Old Testament.

Friday is a day of great blessing; it is a minor Eid celebration day and muslims do take the day off in Muslim countries; it is not meant to be a day of rest [although you can make it one, i.e, there is no fault if one works on that day] but just a day of heightened blessing

 

[Muslimwoman]

There are passages that say a woman should walk behind a Mahram.

Salam alaikum brother

Could you please provide the passages you believe say this's owe may discuss or edit your post to say there are no passages to say this, as anyone without knowledge reading this thread will be led to believe there are passages of Quran stating women should walk behind men. Thank you

 

[Muslimwoman]

May I also point out that here in the Middle East Saturday isn't a weekend day, it's a normal working day. People here tend to work 6 days a week, with Friday off.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

Salam alaikum brother

Could you please provide the passages you believe say this's owe may discuss or edit your post to say there are no passages to say this, as anyone without knowledge reading this thread will be led to believe there are passages of Quran stating women should walk behind men. Thank you

Wa Allahikum Salaam sister

I should have specified, this is from Hadith. Although it seems as though in further research that these Hadith (I'm english speaking so I can only get what is given to me) are referring to permissability and not a requirement. There are many more discussing a woman walking beside and even in front of her Mahram. I apoligize for anything that is incorrect, I am but 1 convert and don't get a lot of support here, so I do what I can. I welcome correction and further input.

May I also point out that here in the Middle East Saturday isn't a weekend day, it's a normal working day. People here tend to work 6 days a week, with Friday off.

Where, might I ask, do you live? My friends from Turkey, Jordan and Saudi all seemed to be off Saturday. Friday, varied, with Jummah being off, but rest of day at work.

 

[Maitreya]

Personally I believe in Oneness, truth, pure love and prosperity for all, however, I would find it interesting if you, calling yourselves Muslims (just as the IS-soldiers do), could answer the following questions:

1. Did Muhammad marry a 6-year old and, to put it mildly, made her into a woman at the age of 9? And if he did, is it right for Muslims today to do the same? And was it Allah who told him to do so? How can he be so sure it was Allah?

2. Is a woman without burqa/vail a whore and can she be raped by any Muslim man? If yes, then is a man without a burqa/vail also a whore? How did Allah mean this?

3. If a Muslim man dies in battle then how many grapes (or was it virgins?) does he get in heaven according to scripture? Does Allah want war?

4. Did Muhammad, before he went to heaven (on a white flying horse?), land in Jerusalem? If he and his flying horse did, how do we know that he actually did that? Were there witnesses? Or did Allah say it to someone else than Muhammad?

5. Did Muhammad state that nobody could make fun of him in satirical cartoons? Why is it a provocation that should lead to death to make satire of Muhammad? If Allah is almighty why does he not kill the blasphemers himself?

6. If you as a Muslim change belief, for example to believe in The Flying Spaghetti-monster, or in me, then is it true that you, according to the Koran should be killed? And if yes, then why do you believe it is written in that way? And would it not be a big risk for me (Imam Mahdi) to appear if it was so? If only 2% did not believe me then what would these 2% do to me then do you think?

7. I know many ex. Muslims who changed belief. I consider them both intelligent and very human. What do you consider them to be?

8. If the Muslim world looses big-time, like a nuke-war with Israel, do you believe that I (Imam Mahdi) will climb out of a well in Iran to teach you all the New Koran?

 

[Muslimwoman]

I'm a convert too (gosh almost 11 years now). I know there are Hadith speaking about women not walking in the middle of the road, so they aren't bustling around with men but that's far removed from walking behind your mahram.

I live in Egypt at the moment but spent the last year living in Saudi Arabia

 

[Muslimwoman]

Personally I believe in Oneness, truth, pure love and prosperity for all, however, I would find it interesting if you, calling yourselves Muslims (just as the IS-soldiers do), could answer the following questions:

Salam Maitreya

As you believe in truth, pure love and prosperity for all perhaps dropping the snarky "calling yourselves" and "just as IS do" comments, it may help discussion.

1. Did Muhammad marry a 6-year old and, to put it mildly, made her into a woman at the age of 9? And if he did, is it right for Muslims today to do the same? And was it Allah who told him to do so? How can he be so sure it was Allah?

The age of Aisha at the time of marriage is highly debatable and we have no completely reliable source to state her age. Her young age comes from Hadith but we also have Hadith and historical records, particularly regarding her sisters age, which would suggest she would have been in her late teens when she married. Is it acceptable for Muslims to do this today, no it isn't, we don't live in a tribal system that requires cementing of tribal ties and the Prophet (pbuh) married more than 4 women so we know he was an exception when it came to marriage.

2. Is a woman without burqa/vail a whore and can she be raped by any Muslim man? If yes, then is a man without a burqa/vail also a whore? How did Allah mean this?

There is nothing in Islam which would allow the rape of a woman. Your question about men and burqa is about ridicule so I won't bother answering that that part

3. If a Muslim man dies in battle then how many grapes (or was it virgins?) does he get in heaven according to scripture? Does Allah want war?

There is nothing in Quran about how many virgins he would get, there is a highly suspect Hadith about the number of virgins but most Muslims pay little heed to it

4. Did Muhammad, before he went to heaven (on a white flying horse?), land in Jerusalem? If he and his flying horse did, how do we know that he actually did that? Were there witnesses? Or did Allah say it to someone else than Muhammad?

Rephrase your question to something polite and I will answer.

5. Did Muhammad state that nobody could make fun of him in satirical cartoons? Why is it a provocation that should lead to death to make satire of Muhammad? If Allah is almighty why does he not kill the blasphemers himself?

No he didn't

6. If you as a Muslim change belief, for example to believe in The Flying Spaghetti-monster, or in me, then is it true that you, according to the Koran should be killed? And if yes, then why do you believe it is written in that way? And would it not be a big risk for me (Imam Mahdi) to appear if it was so? If only 2% did not believe me then what would these 2% do to me then do you think?

No there is nothing in Quran about killing those who change belief, the Quran makes it very clear that people are free to believe or not and even the Prophet was told he could only give the message but could not make people believe

7. I know many ex. Muslims who changed belief. I consider them both intelligent and very human. What do you consider them to be?

Misguided

8. If the Muslim world looses big-time, like a nuke-war with Israel, do you believe that I (Imam Mahdi) will climb out of a well in Iran to teach you all the New Koran?

No

 

[BigJoeNobody]

1. Exact age of marriage/ consummation vary in records. she was presented as an option early in her life, but he refused. Later He was presented with the option again and asked her (yes we know she was young by modern standards) and their marriage was consummated after er pubescent period started. (as in after the first period was over, and some sources say it was after a few). In essence it is illegal to have intercourse with a girl who is under the age of puberty. A practice uncommon worldwide up until that point. Women were given rights with the Quran, and regardless of modern nuances, a 9 year old girl was an adult in many cultures and if she has started puberty is capable of both intercourse and carying a child safely. So it would possibly be true.

2. No. Having sex for money is what makes a woman a whore. Allah never said that she is a whore. nor did he require nor even suggest a burka or veil.

3. Dieing in battle is a little obscure. Dieing as a true martyr, you will be rewarded with Jannah. In Jannah (aka heaven) people will be rewarded with a new creation made to resemble "perfect" companions for physical pleasure. The number is non-important, but some hadith put it at 72 for martyrs.

4. He did ascend to heaven. I am not so knowledgeable about the details, but from what I've been told, there were witnesses that he ascended.

5. No. It's not. If someone is supposed to die, for whatever reason, Allah has given men the knowledge of how and why. He need not intervene.

6. No. Allah will judge me for leaving the faith, and "kill" me by sending me to hell... There is no commandment that one must kill the apostates. As for what the 2% do, is not for me to say.

7. Misguided, Astray, disbelievers... pretty simple question.

8. No, why would I believe that? Moreso, how is Israel to make so many Muslims "loose big-time".

I hope this answers your questions. I'm sure I would have a few for you, but I can't figure out what you are claiming to follow/be.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

I'm a convert too (gosh almost 11 years now). I know there are Hadith speaking about women not walking in the middle of the road, so they aren't bustling around with men but that's far removed from walking behind your mahram.

I live in Egypt at the moment but spent the last year living in Saudi Arabia

Alhambdulillah,

I am a bit younger a Muslim (i guess officially a little over 2 yrs?), but I studied the why's and what's a lot before converting (as I'm sure you did as well). One of my Best friends is Egyptian, he is there now I believe (he was supposed to retrieve his wife and kids after going to Hajj... unless he forgot )

There are thousands of Hadith as you know, and many are weak in nature. It is completely possible that even though my sources claim to only use the most authentic Hadiths, that some weak ones get through. I shall look into it.

also you seem to have submitted an answer before I finished mine...

 

[Muslimwoman]

MashAllah, it's good to 'meet' you brother. Hopefully we can help each other and learn from each other as we go

For some reason the forum doesn't like working on my iPad so my sentences keep cutting off. Will try to check things before I post in future.

 

[Maitreya]

Salam Maitreya

As you believe in truth, pure love and prosperity for all perhaps dropping the snarky "calling yourselves" and "just as IS do" comments, it may help discussion.

The age of Aisha at the time of marriage is highly debatable and we have no completely reliable source to state her age. Her young age comes from Hadith but we also have Hadith and historical records, particularly regarding her sisters age, which would suggest she would have been in her late teens when she married. Is it acceptable for Muslims to do this today, no it isn't, we don't live in a tribal system that requires cementing of tribal ties and the Prophet (pbuh) married more than 4 women so we know he was an exception when it came to marriage.

There is nothing in Islam which would allow the rape of a woman. Your question about men and burqa is about ridicule so I won't bother answering that that part

There is nothing in Quran about how many virgins he would get, there is a highly suspect Hadith about the number of virgins but most Muslims pay little heed to it

Rephrase your question to something polite and I will answer.

No he didn't

No there is nothing in Quran about killing those who change belief, the Quran makes it very clear that people are free to believe or not and even the Prophet was told he could only give the message but could not make people believe

Misguided

No

I am sorry if my questions to find truth seem impolite. They are not meant to be. The truth can however be very annoying if you are not motivated to see it. However truth does not hurt. Only resistance. So embrace the truth with a smile!
My positive attitude comes from meditation, not from ridicule. ;-)

So. ask yourself:

Why would it help discussion to avoid the truth?

Do you not call yourself "Muslim"?

Is it not true that IS calls themselves "Muslim"?

Do not both you and IS believe that both you and them follow the words of Mohammad?

Clearly Aisha was an exception even if the following defender accepts she was 9 when living with Mohammad. I believe this is a better defense for Mohammad: http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_aisha.htm

You write:"There is nothing in Islam which would allow the rape of a woman." and maybe so you have been told, as a muslim woman? So I go to a source I believe is accurate in the matter: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam

Why should not a man wear a burqa and why is that a silly question? Many muslims are wearing something burqa-like, just like Arrafat did also often wrapping it over their mouths, just like IS. To me it looks like a burqa. I do not know what it is called. Do you know?

The other person answered the virgin number issue with 72. So I guess that some (maybe not very intelligent) actually go to battle believing in having 72 virgins (or mabe grapes?) in heaven if they die and hopefully brings a good vitality with them. Would Allah put the pieces back together in heaven again and will they function again? I mean with 72 virgins you would hope to be able to satisfy them, would't you? And since you are a woman... Do women get 72 virgin men in heaven too if they die as martyrs? What do you believe?

So you say that Mohammad did not state that nobody could make fun of him in satirical cartoons. So then comes the question automatically: Why then did the extremists kill the ones who did make the cartoons if they were not committing a crime to any law or any scripture or even any crime against Mohammad? Mohammad might be laughing in heaven at the cartons? Why shouldn't he? Did he not have a sense of humor? ;-)

No you seem to be right. There is nothing in Quran about killing those who change belief, but it seems it can be found in the Hadiths http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Apostasy Do you think this could explain the barbarism that still go on in the name of Islam against apostates?

Ok. So you think that followers of Islam that apostate from Islam are misguided. Do you believe Imam Mahdi (Maitreya) is also misguided? What other religions did you investigate? Is there a small chance you are misguided too? if not, then why could you not be misguided?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

So I go to a source I believe is accurate in the matter: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam

Why is wikiislam a source you trust? Wouldn't the Quran be a more trustworthy source?

 

[Maitreya]

1. Exact age of marriage/ consummation vary in records. she was presented as an option early in her life, but he refused. Later He was presented with the option again and asked her (yes we know she was young by modern standards) and their marriage was consummated after er pubescent period started. (as in after the first period was over, and some sources say it was after a few). In essence it is illegal to have intercourse with a girl who is under the age of puberty. A practice uncommon worldwide up until that point. Women were given rights with the Quran, and regardless of modern nuances, a 9 year old girl was an adult in many cultures and if she has started puberty is capable of both intercourse and carying a child safely. So it would possibly be true.

2. No. Having sex for money is what makes a woman a whore. Allah never said that she is a whore. nor did he require nor even suggest a burka or veil.

3. Dieing in battle is a little obscure. Dieing as a true martyr, you will be rewarded with Jannah. In Jannah (aka heaven) people will be rewarded with a new creation made to resemble "perfect" companions for physical pleasure. The number is non-important, but some hadith put it at 72 for martyrs.

4. He did ascend to heaven. I am not so knowledgeable about the details, but from what I've been told, there were witnesses that he ascended.

5. No. It's not. If someone is supposed to die, for whatever reason, Allah has given men the knowledge of how and why. He need not intervene.

6. No. Allah will judge me for leaving the faith, and "kill" me by sending me to hell... There is no commandment that one must kill the apostates. As for what the 2% do, is not for me to say.

7. Misguided, Astray, disbelievers... pretty simple question.

8. No, why would I believe that? Moreso, how is Israel to make so many Muslims "loose big-time".

I hope this answers your questions. I'm sure I would have a few for you, but I can't figure out what you are claiming to follow/be

1. Ok. So it would possibly be true with marrying the 6 year old and making her a woman at 9, as well. Here is some defense for Mohammad: http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_aisha.htm

2. About rape in Islam: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam
About the veil: http://www.islamicfaq.org/veil/

3. He he he. "perfect" companions for physical pleasure and 72 of them. Ok where do I join? D More importantly, do you really believe it?

4. So you really believe that "he did ascend to heaven"?

5. So you believe Allah does not intervene? Then there is a small logical problem of evil in this world...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil#Logical_problem_of_evil

6. Ok. So you believe you will go to hell if you stop believing in Islam but that there says nowhere in Islam that anyone must kill the apostate? Then why do you think that apostates are being killed and why in the name of Islam and not in other religions? Could it be this reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Qur.27an ?

7. Is it possible you have been Misguided and led Astray?

8. Well, why would you believe in Imaam Mahdi? http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/mahdi1.htm. Well Israel control Washington who control Obama and they have tons of nukes, furthermore they are now arming Iran with a few of them. Will Muslims loose big-time? Well, what do you think is the plan?

I could be Imaam Mahdi, but of course you are the one who will believe that or not and only history will finally tell.

 

[farhan]

Two people invoking the same name doesnt constitute an argument. I hope you realize that. Eitherway it seems Russians are gonna bomb all these US-EU "regime change" terrorists. Ironic, since some 40 years ago this brand of proxy warriors were manufactured by the same Americans against the same russians. Seems this whole argument (or lack of it) is going to die soon.

Ayesha's age, regardless of whatever you think about it has never been an issue. Still today its common in many different cultures to get girls married in very early post-pubescent age. It might be considered a taboo in the contemporary western world (while the same people overlook out of wedlock 10 year old prgenant girls), it has never been a problem, not even for Ayesha herself and he father.

And There is nothing in Islam which would allow the rape of a woman. Believe me, I used to read that guy a decade ago, he is an idiot. Just like you, he thinks he has an argument. So improve your reading habits.

Why cant Allah put pieses back together? ANd why are you so interested in 72 grapes/virgins. I hope you know this, most muslims dont practice their religion just because of 72 virgins/grapes.

Why is anybody interested in insulting Muhammad in the first place. Dont you people have any sense of sacredness? If not, then why not insult your own people, your ancestors, your nations, and ideals (or lack of them)

Do you think anything could explain the barbarism that still goes on in the name of freedom and democracy against muslims?

What do you know about Imam mahdi anyways? It seems your meditations arnt providing you with any "insight", just delusions of grandiosity.