are jesus and god equal?

[BlaznFattyz]

Your asumption that only God can forgive sins is without Biblical merit unless you can show otherwise.

i think you are just misunderstanding me. of course we should apologize for wrong doings and forgive others. what i was saying is only through the blood of christ are we truly forgiven and reborn and made new. only christ can forgive this way.

 

[Silas]

It is not an asumption that only God can forgive sin, it is true! Sins are primarily an offense against the law giver, namely, God (note Psm. 51). I can rob you and you can forgive me if you choose, but ultimately my sins were not done to you, but God. Therefore, only God - the ultimate and highest Judge, can choose to forgive sin as the Bible states (Luke 5:21).

 

[wil]

If Jesus isnt equal to God then He's in a lot of Trouble for changing God's laws. Jesus said:

"You have heard it said that you must not murder," but I say unto you..."

Hmm? Who is Jesus to jutapose God's commandments with His own sayings? Thats a brave dude, huh?

He didn't change, he interpretted and expanded. He put a larger owness on us. Sure easy commandment. I don't murder.. But when you tell a child that he can't do something, isn't capable, or tell him his music doesn't sound good or picture doesn't look good. You've just murdered enthusiasm, willingness, or creativity. Jesus was informing us how this law did not just refer to taking a life, but identifying the true power of our thoughts and words on another person...

 

[Silas]

I agree. I was just trying to show Jesus' authority and how He is equal to God since He could jutapose God's words with His own.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

I agree. I was just trying to show Jesus' authority and how He is equal to God since He could jutapose God's words with His own.

the same spirit of christ, that spirit knows even the depths of god.

 

[JosephM]

i think you are just misunderstanding me. of course we should apologize for wrong doings and forgive others. what i was saying is only through the blood of christ are we truly forgiven and reborn and made new. only christ can forgive this way.

OK BF,
I apologize for misunderstanding. I took it you were saying that the fact that Jesus forgave sins made him equal to God. I was just pointing out that He also gave his disciples power to forgive sins by the power of the holy spirit. So just the fact that God gives power through his spirit to a man having the holy spirit and forgiving another's sins does not make the man equal with God. Jesus did not say or do these things til the Holy Spirit descended on him. Jesus himself said he did nothing of himself but only what the father showed him to do and the father did the work. If he is equal it needs more Biblical basis than that. He also gave them power to heal others and other gifts. That same power which includes even to raise the dead was given men such as Moses, Elijah and others long before Jesus was born.

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Faithfulservant]

Everytime I read someones twisting of scripture I want to say something then I keep reading and then suddenly theres something else and so on so forth... so I never say anything because there is just too much nonsense on here anymore.

So Im just going to say that only the the blood or the suffering of GOD could cover ALL the SINS of the world from that day forward...

only GOD taking the judgement of the entire race of man onto Himself one time could be enough to atone for the evil that is Man. Thats what makes Him more than us..Only GOD could be so selfless as to sacrifice Himself for people that hate Him.. We humans suck too much.

He took your judgement and my judgement our punishment which we deserve.. and suffered for us.. GOD our creator was punished for what we have done.. and will do... until the end of time. one time.. no man could ever do that.

please.. ya'll need to get real and think this whole thing through.. We are not gods..Jesus is not just a man.. We are nothing without Jesus Christ.. the Father sees Jesus in us and thats why we even have a shot at grace. He looks at us and sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ.. not the filthy beings we are..

I could never thank Jesus enough for what He did for me.. past present and future..

 

[JosephM]

Everytime I read someones twisting of scripture I want to say something then I keep reading and then suddenly theres something else and so on so forth... so I never say anything because there is just too much nonsense on here anymore.

So Im just going to say that only the the blood or the suffering of GOD could cover ALL the SINS of the world from that day forward...

I was of the impression that God was Spirit. Not flesh and blood. That which is flesh and blood is created and will perish. Source creates flesh but flesh is phenomena not source.

only GOD taking the judgement of the entire race of man onto Himself one time could be enough to atone for the evil that is Man. Thats what makes Him more than us..Only GOD could be so selfless as to sacrifice Himself for people that hate Him.. We humans suck too much.

Obviously God doesn't see it that way. Perhaps it is not wise to say that which God created sucks? I don't believe God views it that way.

He took your judgement and my judgement our punishment which we deserve.. and suffered for us.. GOD our creator was punished for what we have done.. and will do... until the end of time. one time.. no man could ever do that.

So you think God can be punished? He made us with choice knowing full well we would disobey and then punishes himself for it? Really?

please.. ya'll need to get real and think this whole thing through.. We are not gods..Jesus is not just a man.. We are nothing without Jesus Christ.. the Father sees Jesus in us and thats why we even have a shot at grace. He looks at us and sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ.. not the filthy beings we are..

I could never thank Jesus enough for what He did for me.. past present and future..

Ya know, I am really trying to think this thing through faithfulservant but much of it just sounds like Myth. We do not make Jesus as just a man and ourselves as god as you say. We just think it not robbery to consider Jesus our elder brother since we also have received the same spirit he did. You are the one that makes Jesus God and we as 'filthy beings' (your words). I see God's creation as beautiful and working in a perfect divine order. Perhaps you are much more thoughtful and a more accurate thinker and reasoner than I? I love God also and am not ashamed to say. I am thankful for the teachings of Jesus, God's son, and I am thankful for you but a lot of the things you say just don't add up for me. I do consider them. Do you consider what we say or just ignore all data contrary to what you have been taught by organized religion?


Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Seeker_of_truth]

"Is the Divine Manifestation, God? Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same."

If you stick "Jesus" where it says "Divine Manifestation" all makes sense. (IMHO)

 

[BlaznFattyz]

I took it you were saying that the fact that Jesus forgave sins made him equal to God.

i did say that, jesus forgives sins just as god forgives because they are one.

I was just pointing out that He also gave his disciples power to forgive sins by the power of the holy spirit. So just the fact that God gives power through his spirit to a man having the holy spirit and forgiving another's sins does not make the man equal with God. Jesus did not say or do these things til the Holy Spirit descended on him.

yes jesus gave them the spirit to do the great work of building the church, christ also sent the spirit into the world as it is now, just as god gives the spirit, because they are one.

Jesus himself said he did nothing of himself but only what the father showed him to do and the father did the work. If he is equal it needs more Biblical basis than that.

Look in the mirror and tell me what your reflection does. Same with the father and the christ, because they are one

He also gave them power to heal others and other gifts. That same power which includes even to raise the dead was given men such as Moses, Elijah and others long before Jesus was born.

That He you refer to that gave power is God (father, son, holy spirit) for what one does all the rest do, because they are one, the true living god. Before jesus was born on earth he was in heaven with God as God.

 

[JosephM]

"Is the Divine Manifestation, God? Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same."

If you stick "Jesus" where it says "Divine Manifestation" all makes sense. (IMHO)

Wonderfully spoken. It seems to reason quite well.

JM

 

[lunamoth]

"Is the Divine Manifestation, God? Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same."

If you stick "Jesus" where it says "Divine Manifestation" all makes sense. (IMHO)

That is a nice quote and thank you for sharing but just to not confuse people that is Baha'i theology, not Christian theology.

cheers,
luna

 

[BlaznFattyz]

they only differ in degree

this difference in degree enables god to reach out to man thru his different manifestations. there is no weaker link in the salvation of man. its all one interdependent process.

 

[pattimax]

That is a nice quote and thank you for sharing but just to not confuse people that is Baha'i theology, not Christian theology.

cheers,
luna

Thank you. I'm not familiar at all with Baha'i.

 

[Seeker_of_truth]

That is a nice quote and thank you for sharing but just to not confuse people that is Baha'i theology, not Christian theology.

cheers,
luna

Nonetheless the quote is relevant for the subject of discussion.

 

[mee]

If Jesus isnt equal to God then He's in a lot of Trouble for changing God's laws. Jesus said:

"You have heard it said that you must not murder," but I say unto you..."

Hmm? Who is Jesus to jutapose God's commandments with His own sayings? Thats a brave dude, huh?

Jesus plays a very big part in Gods purpose for the earth.
when Jesus referred to parts of the Law and added, "However, I say to you," he was not setting aside the Mosaic Law and substituting something else in its place. No, but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Jesus plays a very big part in Gods purpose for the earth.
when Jesus referred to parts of the Law and added, "However, I say to you," he was not setting aside the Mosaic Law and substituting something else in its place. No, but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it.

although jesus conformed to the law, he did not break it because he was perfect--the son of god, free from sin. he did however explain and expound upon what god truly meant with the laws and how we break them before we think we do. through christ we find it is impossible for man to adhere to the holy laws of god and we fall short; however, there is christ providing love, forgiveness, and grace for us, so we don't taste death for not keeping the laws, but find life in christ by acknowledging that you cannot do anything without him and need him to come to god--not by works that will never be good enough, but by faith in him that is true. Christ has fulfilled the law through his sacrifice, death, and resurrection, and we no longer are bound by falling short of the law and tasting death, but have salvation in the Lord. it is through that love, forgiveness, and grace that our treating of others and salvation does not spring from laws, but it springs from the spirit of christ.

 

[Cage]

He didn't change, he interpretted and expanded. He put a larger owness on us. Sure easy commandment. I don't murder.. But when you tell a child that he can't do something, isn't capable, or tell him his music doesn't sound good or picture doesn't look good. You've just murdered enthusiasm, willingness, or creativity. Jesus was informing us how this law did not just refer to taking a life, but identifying the true power of our thoughts and words on another person...

We should be more careful what we say, huh? Words have great power, and the Bible says we will be judged my everyone of them. Kinda makes one cautious about what they say to another. I think if we have compassion, and attempt to see the effect our words 'might' have on another, we could eliminate the stumbling blocks we unwittingly set in front of them, and ourselves.

Good post wil, an I agree...


Love,

 

[Silas]

Jesus plays a very big part in Gods purpose for the earth.
when Jesus referred to parts of the Law and added, "However, I say to you," he was not setting aside the Mosaic Law and substituting something else in its place. No, but he was deepening and widening its force by showing the spirit behind it.

Do you pray to Jesus? Why or why not?

 

[mee]

Do you pray to Jesus? Why or why not?

if you look to the model prayer that Jesus taught his followers it will be quite clear , sticking to the bible is the way to go.
first things first. It states: "Let your name be sanctified." (Matthew 6:9) Yes, the sanctification of Jehovah’s name should be of primary concern to us because we love him and hate to see all the reproach that has been heaped upon his name. Satan’s rebellion and his inducing the first human couple to disobey Jehovah God slandered His name by calling into question the way God was exercising his universal sovereignty. (Genesis 3:1-6) Furthermore, through the centuries, Jehovah’s name has been reproached by the shameful acts and teachings of those claiming to represent him.
Since the peace of the universe and its inhabitants depends on the sanctification of Jehovah’s name and loving submission to his sovereignty, our prayer "let your name be sanctified" is an expression of our confidence that Jehovah’s purpose will be fulfilled to his praise.—Ezekiel 38:23.
The second petition in the model prayer is: "Let your kingdom come." (Matthew 6:10) This request is closely related to the preceding one. Jehovah’s instrument for sanctifying his holy name is the Messianic Kingdom, his heavenly government, of which his Son, Jesus Christ, is the duly appointed King. (Psalm 2:1-9)
In his model prayer, Christ taught us to pray for the coming of God’s Kingdom. The fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. Is it, therefore, still appropriate for us to pray for that Kingdom to "come"? Certainly. For in Daniel’s prophecy, the Messianic Kingdom, symbolized by a stone, is on a collision course with human political governments, symbolized by an immense image. The stone will yet come against that image, striking it a blow that will reduce it to powder. Daniel’s prophecy says: "The kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."—Daniel 2:44.
We long to see God’s Kingdom come against Satan’s wicked system of things because this will mean the sanctification of Jehovah’s holy name and the removal of all opposers of divine sovereignty. We fervently pray: "Let your kingdom come," and with the apostle John, we say: "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:20) Yes, may Jesus come to sanctify Jehovah’s name and vindicate His sovereignty, so that the psalmist’s words may come true: "That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth."—Psalm 83:18.