Jesus (pbuh) - failed Prophet

Muslimwoman said:
Hi madeinrussia

That really seems to depend on who you speak to, many Christians tell me that without Jesus (pbuh) I cannot reach G-d and there seems to be differing views as to whether Jesus (pbuh) is G-d or a seperate entity.

Maybe explains my conversion?

Salaam
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If Jesus you have met, and Jesus you reject, then that is why some state what they state, about you not meeting God on a personal level. However, I suspect you never really met Jesus...'cause He is awesome.

"Foot Prints in the Sand"

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. ​

Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,
“You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most, you have not been there for me?”

The Lord replied,
“The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in the sand,
is when I carried you.”


Mary Stevenson (1936)
 
Quahom1 said:
If Jesus you have met, and Jesus you reject, then that is why some state what they state, about you not meeting God on a personal level. However, I suspect you never really met Jesus...'cause He is awesome.
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Isn't that the most amazing quote - I have it painted onto glass, I just love it.

I agree Q, I never connected to Jesus (pbuh), it was just the wrong path for me.

It is interesting to see the various beliefs regarding 'what' Jesus (pbuh) was/is and whether G-d can accept a good person if they do/do not get there through Jesus (pbuh).

I have a feeling that on the Day of Judgement we will all be standing open mouthed saying 'ooohhhh I see'.

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman said:
Isn't that the most amazing quote - I have it painted onto glass, I just love it.

I agree Q, I never connected to Jesus (pbuh), it was just the wrong path for me.

It is interesting to see the various beliefs regarding 'what' Jesus (pbuh) was/is and whether G-d can accept a good person if they do/do not get there through Jesus (pbuh).

I have a feeling that on the Day of Judgement we will all be standing open mouthed saying 'ooohhhh I see'.

Salaam
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I chose not to wait for the day of judgement, my friend...I embrace Jesus now...;)
 
Muslimwoman said:
It is interesting to see the various beliefs regarding 'what' Jesus (pbuh) was/is and whether G-d can accept a good person if they do/do not get there through Jesus (pbuh).

I have a feeling that on the Day of Judgement we will all be standing open mouthed saying 'ooohhhh I see'.

Salaam
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The Son of God will judge the living and the dead. There is no getting to the Father without going through the Son who He has appointed over all things.
 
That Christians say you can only reach G-d through Jesus (pbuh) but then different Christians appear to have differing beliefs of whether Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d or is in fact himself G-d. I find it very confusing.
 
Muslimwoman said:
That Christians say you can only reach G-d through Jesus (pbuh) but then different Christians appear to have differing beliefs of whether Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d or is in fact himself G-d. I find it very confusing.
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typical of the educated and highly intelligent, well rounded types, with no hope...who is God?

Jesus comes along and says "I am the light, the truth and the way". And the elite replies "bunk". Some say He is a "pauper's God". Some say He is no god at all...

I say, He is Lord and savior. I say He will and does give strength, guidance, comfort, protection and hope...and I am educated, highly intelligent and a well rounded type...so are you, I suspect. ;)

v/r

Q
 
Muslimwoman said:
That Christians say you can only reach G-d through Jesus (pbuh) but then different Christians appear to have differing beliefs of whether Jesus (pbuh) is the son of G-d or is in fact himself G-d. I find it very confusing.
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Okay, non-trinitarians are just going to make everything so much more confusing.

Anyone proclaiming to be Christian but saying that Jesus isn't God simply isn't Christian.

This is how it is, Jesus is God, so there is no middle man.

The father, the son, and the holy spirit, all together these are called hypostasis in Orthodoxy. This word means that the father and the son are different personas (not different people, big big difference), they still share a single ousia (or essence), it's still just God.
 
madeinrussia89 said:
The father, the son, and the holy spirit, all together these are called hypostasis in Orthodoxy. This word means that the father and the son are different personas (not different people, big big difference), they still share a single ousia (or essence), it's still just God.
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Ah-ha, now here is a statement my brain can get to grips with. So do you believe that Jesus (pbuh) coming to earth was simply G-d projecting Himself or an aspect of Himself so we could see Him?

Sorry have had the discussion so many times and my brain still can't get round the Trinity, I think there is much confusion with non-Christians because it is difficult to accept that 3 are one but then you get those that say 3 are 3 but belong to one, etc - it is all just so baffling at times. :eek:
 
Salaam MW...

No, but see... it's all SUPPOSED to be a set of mysteries that we ordinary people are not SUPPOSED to be able to fathom. Others must interpret it all for us through their roles in life. It's all about how societies have been organized to function over the centuries while being wrapped around such core beliefs. IMHO.

flow....;)
 
flowperson said:
Salaam MW...

No, but see... it's all SUPPOSED to be a set of mysteries that we ordinary people are not SUPPOSED to be able to fathom. Others must interpret it all for us through their roles in life. It's all about how societies have been organized to function over the centuries while being wrapped around such core beliefs. IMHO.

flow....;)
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while societies change, the bible does not. and contained in it is the gospel that we are saved by the workings christ on the cross and his resurrection. salvation is more important to understand, than are the reasons that social structures allow you to remain unsaved when you are already free of them or can sidestep these barriers with the knowledge that they are there, and that can read and think for yourself. i find that when people do want to do something they can find a million reasons not to.
 
Muslimwoman said:
Ah-ha, now here is a statement my brain can get to grips with. So do you believe that Jesus (pbuh) coming to earth was simply G-d projecting Himself or an aspect of Himself so we could see Him?

Sorry have had the discussion so many times and my brain still can't get round the Trinity, I think there is much confusion with non-Christians because it is difficult to accept that 3 are one but then you get those that say 3 are 3 but belong to one, etc - it is all just so baffling at times. :eek:
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whoever has seen the son has seen the father that sent him.
 
Muslimwoman said:
See what I mean?

Love the new avatar Blazn
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It's a fairly interesting conversation. Did you even read what Blazn wrote? Or did you just automatically go into condescension mode?

You said:
It is interesting to see the various beliefs regarding 'what' Jesus (pbuh) was/is and whether G-d can accept a good person if they do/do not get there through Jesus (pbuh).
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that on the Day of Judgement we will all be standing open mouthed saying 'ooohhhh I see'.
Click to expand...

He said (along with fellow Christians):
The Son of God will judge the living and the dead. There is no getting to the Father without going through the Son who He has appointed ALL THINGS.
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All pretty much covers it.

Has it ever occurred to you that some people on judgement day will be slapping their foreheads saying "This is so simple! Why, oh why didn't I get this? It was right in front of me and I didn't see?"

We don't want you to be one of the ones standing there saying "ooohhh, I see."
 
Patti...

And still it is possible, and you must admit the possibilty of it, that you and Blazn may be the ones slapping your heads and saying what you prophesy for others.

No system of belief is infallible over time. And time will tell.

flow....:rolleyes:
 
pattimax said:
We don't want you to be one of the ones standing there saying "ooohhh, I see."
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I see you are as charming as ever Patti. Yes I did read what Blazn wrote, the fact that I did not go WOW I see the light clearly upsets you but you will have to live with that.

Well your above comment was sort of my point. That you WILL be saying "ohhh, I see - you mean Jesus (pbuh) was sent to tell us to worship G-D, not worship him". And many Muslims will say "ohhhh I see, I was meant to worship Allah, not the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)".

May I ask you Patti, how many gods do you believe there are? Is it really so hard to just worship G-d without having to go 'through' anyone.
 
flowperson said:
Salaam MW...

No, but see... it's all SUPPOSED to be a set of mysteries that we ordinary people are not SUPPOSED to be able to fathom. Others must interpret it all for us through their roles in life. It's all about how societies have been organized to function over the centuries while being wrapped around such core beliefs. IMHO.

flow....;)
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Ah yes, I have yet to come across any organised religion that doesn't need to 'interpret' for me. Why doesn't someone just do the idiot's guide and send me a copy (I shouldn't say that or some idiot will :p).

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman said:
I see you are as charming as ever Patti. Yes I did read what Blazn wrote, the fact that I did not go WOW I see the light clearly upsets you but you will have to live with that.

Well your above comment was sort of my point. That you WILL be saying "ohhh, I see - you mean Jesus (pbuh) was sent to tell us to worship G-D, not worship him". And many Muslims will say "ohhhh I see, I was meant to worship Allah, not the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)".

May I ask you Patti, how many gods do you believe there are? Is it really so hard to just worship G-d without having to go 'through' anyone.
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Jesus would help you with that condescension.


You KNOW good and well what I believe, and going 'through' anyone is unnecessary. If you want to try and decipher the trinity you may. I see it in so many things, but yet there really aren't words for it. I have heard it said that truly understanding the trinity has nothing to do with words. I know that's kind of sounds flakey but when you do get it, it's rather beautiful.

Where do you get the idea that I go 'through' someone? I'm Baptist.
 
flowperson said:
Patti...

And still it is possible, and you must admit the possibilty of it, that you and Blazn may be the ones slapping your heads and saying what you prophesy for others.

No system of belief is infallible over time. And time will tell.

flow....:rolleyes:
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flow...

Belief systems do fail over time. But has it ever occurred to you that Christianity is so much more than a belief system.

And as for time telling, that may or may not be a good thing. What I mean is that time is finite. Time will end...

btw- I believe the bible prophesied that. Pattimax just a messenger.
 
Hi Patti:

Well. Ive been called a messenger also, but usually in derogatory terms. However, to my knowledge, nobody's tried to shoot me yet.

I'm sorry but I am of the opinion that Christianity is just a valid religious belief system. I say that after decades of research into it's roots and the implications of its philosophies. And I still consider myself to be a Christian, even as distorted as that name has become in the media these days. IMHO, people such as the televangelists have done great damage to the faith that I grew up to love over the past 65 years.

As with all belief systems it's tenets may be used by hierarchies for good or ill when it comes to controlling the social order and the individuals within it. It is as fallable as each person who advocates it and applys it's principles. And my opinion is that traditional forms of belief in Christianity are passing with the times. I would't call it apostasy or a falling away, but a realization by many that its traditional tenets just do not fit with many of the realities of human life these days.

My personal belief is that Jesus would be agahst at some of the interpretations that the hierarchies have made over the centuries concerning His life, works, and purpose. He was a simple man with a complex message, and IMHO, many of the people applying what He came to teach us are just not doing a very good job of it. Hence declining church attendance and secular-oriented belief systems.

I do admire your fervency and committment to what you believe, and would hope that here are many of us, aside from you and yours ,who also hold valid beliefs in Jesus, even though they aren't always literally interpreted in the light of traditional explanations of Bible knowledge.

And I have two more observations. How is Christianity more than a belief system? Please explain.

And without human beings to recognize it's passage, time has no meaning whatsoever. Are you anticipating an extermination of the human species, and do you find that to be a "good" event ?

flow....:rolleyes:
 
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