Will God Judge us When we die ?

[Marsh]

When God first created man, he created him to grow to perfection only by man's completing a share of responsibility. Man can either accomplish his responsibility, as God wants him to do, or to the contrary, he can fail to accomplish it. Accordingly, it was necessary that God give two kinds of prophecies regarding the fulfillment of His Will.

I couldn't disagree more.

When God first created man, he created him to live well-- to go forth, multiply, develop the land they were given. Where does it say that God's intent was for mankind to be perfect? You're just making that part up.

You say that you own a Bible, and that you read it, but my friend you certainly do not understand it in the least. Jesus proclaimed that the kingdom of God was at hand because it was, because the kingdom of God is Jesus himself along with all who believe. That's a kingdom: a ruler and subjects. This kingdom is coming; all of the prophecies will be fulfilled, and some of them have already been fulfilled, while others are still waiting to be fulfilled. If you've read Revelation, you'd understand this. The fact that you don't indicates that you have not read your Bible. And quite honestly, the ideas you've been most apt to discuss seem more like a party line than personal ideas; it sounds to me like we're getting your rendition of what other people have already chewed-over, rather than your own ideas based on what you yourself have read.

 

[soleil10]

I couldn't disagree more.
When God first created man, he created him to live well-- to go forth, multiply, develop the land they were given.[/quote]
I do not see here a contradiction to what I wrote. I never wrote that God did not want man to do well. All I said is that man has his part of responsibilty in order to do well.

Where does it say that God's intent was for mankind to be perfect? You're just making that part up.

Jesus himself said Matt 5:48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

This a very much know verse. Jesus does not say we shoud be like superman. Perfection means, the perfection of the heart

You say that you own a Bible, and that you read it, but my friend you certainly do not understand it in the least. Jesus proclaimed that the kingdom of God was at hand because it was, because the kingdom of God is Jesus himself along with all who believe. That's a kingdom: a ruler and subjects. This kingdom is coming

Jesus spoke wit a strong sense of urgency. He said repent, the Kinhdom of God it is at hand. This means now. He said to someone that wanted to attend a funeral:" let the dead bury the dead". There is not time.

I do not see how the facts support your beliefs.

Marsh, you clearly have a negative opinion of me before you even read what I say. That is unfortunate.

 

[Marsh]

I do not see how the facts support your beliefs.

Marsh, you clearly have a negative opinion of me before you even read what I say. That is unfortunate.

No, Soleil; I have a very negative opinion of what you say, not of you personally. And trust me, I do read what you write. And I know my Bible. And I see that what you say seems to make sense at first, but it does not stand up to what the Bible says.

Case in point: You quote Jesus as saying that we should be perfect, as our heavenly Father is perfect. Yes, he said that... on the topic of FORGIVENESS! When did God tell Adam to be perfect? He didn't. Nor did Jesus say that we are perfect, but that we should be.

See, here's the deal: I really dislike theology, because it's nothing more than a bloody waste of time and a means to divide people who should be united. You, whether you know it are not, are a theologian (i.e. You never, ever stop talking about the fall, as if the fall is the central part of Christian faith-- even more than Jesus). The purpose that I have assumed is to put your theology to the test, and to force you to defend it in order to prove if it is truth, or if it is imagination.

So far, how well do you think your theology is standing up, by the way? I don't think it's doing very well, and I know this because, once again, you've appealed to emotions instead of to reason. "Oh, Marsh doesn't agree with me because he hates me, and doesn't even listen to what I'm saying." And everyone else is supposed to put reason on hold and accept what you've said because the only reason why big bad Marsh is criticizing it is because he's a meany-- notwithstanding the fact that you aren't actually explaining your way through the criticism.

Sorry, Soleil. From now on, I promise to just let you go on talking, and not to object, and we'll all pretend that Christianity is just a big pot-luck dinner.

 

[soleil10]

No, Soleil; I have a very negative opinion of what you say, not of you personally. And trust me, I do read what you write. And I know my Bible. And I see that what you say seems to make sense at first, but it does not stand up to what the Bible says.

It is good to know. I appreciate

Case in point: You quote Jesus as saying that we should be perfect, as our heavenly Father is perfect. Yes, he said that... on the topic of FORGIVENESS! When did God tell Adam to be perfect? He didn't. Nor did Jesus say that we are perfect, but that we should be.

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and then multiply. To be fruitful means to reach individual maturity (completion). The farmer harvests and bring only what is mature to the market. A&E fell before they reach maturity. Their chidlren wer born outside of the garden afther the fall and they were tainted by the original sin.

Even after Jesus resurected ,we are still born with the original sin. Jesus reached maturity( perfection) but was killed before he could fulfilled the second blessing and multiply his Godly (sinless) seed.

We also should become fruitful and multiply children of goodness. This is why the messiah is coming back a third time.

We also should become fruitful and multiply children of goodness. This is why the Messiah is comng back a third time.

See, here's the deal: I really dislike theology, because it's nothing more than a bloody waste of time and a means to divide people who should be united. You, whether you know it are not, are a theologian (i.e. You never, ever stop talking about the fall, as if the fall is the central part of Christian faith-- even more than Jesus). The purpose that I have assumed is to put your theology to the test, and to force you to defend it in order to prove if it is truth, or if it is imagination.

I have been talking about the fall often because I responded to many comments like " God created us to fail so we can be be closer to him and be saved". I respond to the comments I get.

Unless God's plan for his creation, (including us) is clear like what happen in the garden that caused the human fall, what course God used during the old testament to prepare a foundation for Jesus' s coming and what happened when Jesus was rejected, it is difficult to understand why he is coming back.

So far, how well do you think your theology is standing up, by the way? I don't think it's doing very well, and I know this because, once again, you've appealed to emotions instead of reason.

Reason alone is not good, emotion alone is not good. You need both.
The heart is the most central point of God. His motivation to create was love. He created his children to complete His love.
The fall (here we go again) had to do with the misuse of love. Unity and perfection is centered on the heart. Perfection is really the perfection of the heart. It does not mean being superman or not making mistake. It is a place where we cannot betray God because we are one in heart.

 

[Marsh]

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and then multiply. To be fruitful means to reach individual maturity (completion). The farmer harvests and bring only what is mature to the market. A&E fell before they reach maturity. Their chidlren wer born outside of the garden afther the fall and they were tainted by the original sin.

Even after Jesus resurected ,we are still born with the original sin. Jesus reached maturity( perfection) but was killed before he could fulfilled the second blessing and multiply his Godly (sinless) seed.

We also should become fruitful and multiply children of goodness. This is why the messiah is coming back a third time.

Actually, if you read your Bible you will see that Jesus is coming back a second time in order to put an end to the kingdom that Satan will establish on Earth, and to establish the Kingdom of God. He's not coming back to get married and raise a family, dear.

This is just a thought, but instead of constantly coming back to original sin as the root of your problems, perhaps some day you may want to consider your own sins, yeah? See, Jesus gave you a purpose that has nothing to do with original sin, or a fallen state. The idea that you think you're living in a fallen state demonstrates that you have not believed in the begotten son of God, who forgives sins. And if he has forgiven your sins, they are forgiven indeed, so why dwell on them? He has freed his followers from their burdens, enabling them to in turn follow him. But you are only free if you believe you have been freed, and you can only believe that if you believe in Jesus Christ.

And though you know of Jesus, based on what you have said about mankind's purpose to make itself righteous, I don't think you believe in Jesus, Soleil. I think you are a very good person, and very well-intentioned, but I don't get the feeling that you have faith that Jesus has the authority to forgive you of your sins, which is why you feel so guilty all the time.

Am I right?

 

[17th Angel]

Sol.... When you're feeling guilty... Put on this old chestnut.... Such awesome words.... Believe in them

YouTube - Raggy Dolls

 

[soleil10]

Actually, if you read your Bible you will see that Jesus is coming back a second time in order to put an end to the kingdom that Satan will establish on Earth, and to establish the Kingdom of God. He's not coming back to get married and raise a family, dear.

Hey Marsh. The kingdom of satan is right here around us.
What is a the kingdom of God on earth ?
What does it look like ?
The Kingdom of Heaven on earth is made of Godly individuals, God centered families free from the original sin and God centered nations.
It has to start from a sinless Adam and Eve to whom the whole world will connect. Jesus came as the second Adam, the tree of life to whom we needed to be grafted.
The Kingdom of Heaven on earth is the fulfillment of the three blessings God gave to Adam and Eve in Genesis.
Be fruitful, multiply and have dominion over the earth. It has not changed.
Adam's family was the first family from whom we descend. Because these first ancestors fell, God has been looking for so long to create a sinless second Adam's family.
It is pretty simple. God's plan has never changed.

This is just a thought, but instead of constantly coming back to original sin as the root of your problems, perhaps some day you may want to consider your own sins, yeah? See, Jesus gave you a purpose that has nothing to do with original sin, or a fallen state. The idea that you think you're living in a fallen state demonstrates that you have not believed in the begotten son of God, who forgives sins. And if he has forgiven your sins, they are forgiven indeed, so why dwell on them? He has freed his followers from their burdens, enabling them to in turn follow him. But you are only free if you believe you have been freed, and you can only believe that if you believe in Jesus Christ.

Marsh, yes, if we sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness, Jesus has the power to forgive our sin. Still there is one sin that each generation is still born with, yourself and your children too. I am sure you guess what it is.
It goes from generation to generation. No one has be born without it.
If Jesus could have been married, he would have erase the root of the original sin.

And though you know of Jesus, based on what you have said about mankind's purpose to make itself righteous, I don't think you believe in Jesus, Soleil. I think you are a very good person, and very well-intentioned, but I don't get the feeling that you have faith that Jesus has the authority to forgive you of your sins, which is why you feel so guilty all the time.Am I right?

No, as I answered before, one sin still remains. I do believe in Jesus and the mission he came to fulfill. Jesus's crucifixion was the most painfull event for God beside the human fall. God lost not only Jesus precious body but the Godly seed Jesus possessed. Jesus's spirit on the cross was totally victorious and through his resurection, mankind received spiritual salvation.
Recognizing my fallen nature and working to change it is not feeling guilty and hopeless.
It is much more realist than just believing I am saved and then going on on sinning.
I am a very hopeful person.