What is the Baha'i message in simple words?

[RJM]

IMO our perceptions are limited by nature. It's as if we live in a single room contained by a greater house. From within the room, we sometimes hear or sense echoes or vibrations from beyond -- outside. The spirit dimension 'weaves' the physical timespace dimension; the house of spirit surrounds and contains and permeates the room of nature.

The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of nature, but is not turned by it.
It's Plato's cave.

As time and space are the walls of the room of nature, the house of spirit is contained by walls of love -- in the higher sense that all is One, like parts of one body: if I hurt another, it comes back on me. And beyond the dimension of Spirit -- who can begin to conceive?

 

[Longfellow]

Many religions have some kind of creed or summary of their beliefs. Christianity the various formulations of the Creed; Judaism has the Shema and various summaries, like Maimonides' 13 principles; Islam has the Shahada and summaries like the five pillars; Buddhism has a great many lists, but there are perennial favorites like the Triple Gem, the Noble Eightfold Path, the five Precepts, and so on.

Is the Baha'i Faith a religion which can be summarized in a statement or list, as a starting point for branching out into finer points of belief? If so, I'd love to have it quoted here - I think it would be a lot more recognizable to most of us non-Baha'i readers than rather general ideals like Monotheism and Peace.

That depends on which "Baha'i Faith" you're asking about. Are you asking about the community of people who are considered as members by the Baha'i Universal House of Justice, or are you asking about one of the belief systems that people call "Baha'i Faith" in Internet discussions? They can be as different from each other as any two religions.

 

[Longfellow]

Oneness of religion

This for me is the (most) problematic one?

It's problematic for me too, in some of the ways that I've seen it being interpreted and applied in online discussions.

 

[Longfellow]

But Bahais are more ambitious. They want the world to gather under the banner of Bahaollah, with a Bahai Militia to put the disssenters in line. They think that is ordained by Allah and communicated to the world by Allah's manifestation, Bahaollah. They also say that Krishna was no God, Jesus was not the son of God, Buddha was a manifestation of God, and Allah did not send any last message through Mohammad. They also say that Bahaollah was the Messiah that the Jews were waiting for, Kalki that Hindus were waiting for, Maitreya that Buddhists were waiting for, Sayoshant that Zoroastrians were waiting for, but the returning Jesus was Bab.

Some do, some don't. Different ones say different things.

 

[Longfellow]

But it is 150 years later. Reinterpretation of Baha'i scripture ceased, hard, with Shoghi Effendi. So the Baha'i community will be stuck with a 1950ies understanding of their scriptures for the next 850 years, it seems.

Not really. People can, and do, read anything they want to into the writings of Shoghi Effendi, as much as they do with any religious scriptures.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some do, some don't. Different ones say different things.

Bahais cannot have two views. That is an invitation for being declaed a 'covenant breaker'. They must follow what their 'House of Justice' says.

 

[Cino]

That depends on which "Baha'i Faith" you're asking about. Are you asking about the community of people who are considered as members by the Baha'i Universal House of Justice, or are you asking about one of the belief systems that people call "Baha'i Faith" in Internet discussions? They can be as different from each other as any two religions.

Interesting. I am under the impression that the Universal House of Justice is the go-to for the vast majority of Baha'is.

Would you go into detail?

 

[Cino]

Not really. People can, and do, read anything they want to into the writings of Shoghi Effendi, as much as they do with any religious scriptures.

Of course. I do, but I am not a Baha'i. How about those who wish to remain in good standing with the community headed by the Universal House of Justice - would they re-interpret the writings of Baha'u'llah?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Reinterpretation of Baha'i scripture ceased, hard, with Shoghi Effendi. So the Baha'i community will be stuck with a 1950ies understanding of their scriptures for the next 850 years, it seems.

No, it has not ceased. Now, their 'House of Justice' is authorized to do that. Reinterpretation is necessary when they are put in a corner, and Bahais are adapt at doing that. They can always come up with a new Bahaollah 'tablet', not all have been translated.

 

[Longfellow]

Interesting. I am under the impression that the Universal House of Justice is the go-to for the vast majority of Baha'is.

Would you go into detail?

Detail about what? Do you mean, examples of how online Baha'i belief systems, and how they're practiced and promoted, can be different from each other and from the community of the Universal House of Justice?

The vast majority of the members of the community of the House of Justice do not post in online discussions (edited), day after day, promoting and defending their personal belief systems in opposition to the beliefs of others, and calling those "the Baha'i Faith."(end edit)

(later) Do you have any reason to think that any of the people promoting and defending their personal belief systems in online discussions, in opposition to the beliefs of others, and calling those "the Baha'i Faith," without ever saying anything about what the House of Justice has been calling for Baha'is to do for more than 25 years, in all of its messages to them, several times per year, are following any advice from the House of Justice?

 

[Aupmanyav]

The vast majority of the members of the community of the House of Justice do not post in online discussions.

They don't. Members of the Bahai community (or perhaps the paid influencers, bots) do that.

 

[Longfellow]

Before you can teach me, you have to first reach me.

I love all your posts, but some more than others. This is one of my favorites.

 

[Longfellow]

I think it is the case that only certain people, the Guardians, may interpret Baha'i scripture? But that office ended with the death of Shoghi Effendi, when he did not appoint a successor, did I understand that correctly? So nowadays, any interpretation must be drawn from the writings of Shoghi Effendi, Abdul Baha, or Baha'u'llah. There is no more "continuous interpretation", so to speak, that stopped cold in 1957.

That's my understanding of it also.

 

[Cino]

Detail about what? Do you mean, examples of how online Baha'i belief systems, and how they're practiced and promoted, can be different from each other and from the community of the Universal House of Justice?

Yes, that would be interesting. So far, I have only had online contact with Baha'is. With other faiths, I can compare my experience with real-life interactions with believers.

The vast majority of the members of the community of the House of Justice do not post in online discussions (edited), day after day, promoting and defending their personal belief systems in opposition to the beliefs of others, and calling those "the Baha'i Faith."(end edit)

(later) Do you have any reason to think that any of the people promoting and defending their personal belief systems in online discussions, in opposition to the beliefs of others, and calling those "the Baha'i Faith," without ever saying anything about what the House of Justice has been calling for Baha'is to do for more than 25 years, in all of its messages to them, several times per year, are following any advice from the House of Justice?

Well, the online Baha'is I know tend to post a lot of links to official-looking websites.

 

[RJM]

I love all your posts, but some more than others. This is one of my favorites.

Thank you for all the 'likes' @Longfellow I'm flattered

 

[Longfellow]

Detail about what? Do you mean, examples of how online Baha'i belief systems, and how they're practiced and promoted, can be different from each other and from the community of the Universal House of Justice?

Yes, that would be interesting.

One example of differences between online "Baha'i" belief systems: In some online "Baha'i" belief systems, same-sex relationships and marriages are prohibited, and in some they are not. Another one: In some online "Baha'i" belief systems, it would be contrary to Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for women to be members of the Universal House of Justice, and in some it would not. Those might be two of the best known disagreements between Baha'is about Baha'i beliefs, but there are many others. Baha'is promoting and defending their beliefs online have divided into two or more camps, which erupted many years ago into such feuding that it got into some news reports. The open feuding has subsided, but they are still divided into the same camps, each with their own echo chambers and platforms.

Offline, multitudes of members of Baha'i communities all over the world, instead of arguing and debating with each other and other people about what to believe, have been learning for more than 25 years to work side by side with their neighbors to help make the community life in their neighborhood healthier, happier and more friendly for every person in the neighborhood. I haven't heard of any Baha'i faction that is fighting against that, however much they might despise the training materials.

 

[Longfellow]

Some might argue that Jesus gave the commandment, 'love thy neighbour' (cf John 13:34) but His command was specific: "That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another."

He calls this 'a new command' yet the injunction to 'love thy neighbour' is written in the Hebrew Scriptures (Leviticus 19:18), so here Jesus' command is quite specific and refers to Himself – and His self-sacrifice – as the exemplar.

I'm thinking that actually it might refer to Him washing their feet. Thinking back now to an episode of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, maybe that's what he was thinking, too.

 

[Longfellow]

(bolding mine)

... what I consider a serious misrepresentation of Buddhism in the writings of the Baha'i founders

Have the examples you've seen of that misrepresentation in the writings of the Baha'i founders been posted in this thread, or in the spin-off? If not, can you post them for me?

 

[Cino]

One example of differences between online "Baha'i" belief systems: In some online "Baha'i" belief systems, same-sex relationships and marriages are prohibited, and in some they are not. Another one: In some online "Baha'i" belief systems, it would be contrary to Baha'u'llah's prescriptions for women to be members of the Universal House of Justice, and in some it would not. Those might be two of the best known disagreements between Baha'is about Baha'i beliefs, but there are many others. Baha'is promoting and defending their beliefs online have divided into two or more camps, which erupted many years ago into such feuding that it got into some news reports. The open feuding has subsided, but they are still divided into the same camps, each with their own echo chambers and platforms.

That is interesting indeed! These two being points that I have discussed at some length here at Interfaith.org with our Baha'i members. They all (that participated in those discussions) had the conservative views on these matters, and I am assuming that these views also reflect the stance of the Universal House of Justice.

Offline, multitudes of members of Baha'i communities all over the world, instead of arguing and debating with each other and other people about what to believe, have been learning for more than 25 years to work side by side with their neighbors to help make the community life in their neighborhood healthier, happier and more friendly for every person in the neighborhood. I haven't heard of any Baha'i faction that is fighting against that, however much they might despise the training materials.

That's similar to so many other religious communities. Catholics who do great work while the players in the Catholic hierarchy display rather questionable behavior covering up scandals, for example. Muslim community work going on regardless of what medieval nonsense some individual exponents may be preaching online or in selected venues, receiving all the attention, it seems.

With the Baha'i faith, to an outsider, it seems that the hierarchy with the Universal House of Justice at the top, and the ever-repeated appeals to Unity, both portray a very disciplined, close-knit organization, which is, to me at any rate, a rather spooky prospect, I admit. And that's why I'm here, trying to find the individual persons behind the polished wall of words that is the online presence of the Baha'i community.

 

[Cino]

(bolding mine)


Have the examples you've seen of that misrepresentation in the writings of the Baha'i founders been posted in this thread, or in the spin-off? If not, can you post them for me?

For example in "Some Answered Questions", in the chapter about "Two kinds of Prophets", Abdul Baha claims that the Buddha was a monotheistic prophet.