What is the Baha'i message in simple words?

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

So the Bahai accept all listed in Quran as manifestations of God?

And all the OT prophets as well?

But there is no sanctified list?

Yes the OT prophets are seen in this light. Yes to all those listed in the Quran, which is inclusive of Jesus.

There is no official completed List, other than what we can find in the Holy Books, Baha'u'llah mentioned a couple more in the Kitab-i-iqan and thought the Writings.

Quote a couple from Kitab-i-iqan.

".. Among the Prophets was Noah....And after Noah the light of the countenance of Húd shone forth above the horizon of creation.....And after Him there appeared from the Riḍván of the Eternal, the Invisible, the holy person of Ṣáliḥ, Who again summoned the people to the river of everlasting life.....Later, the beauty of the countenance of the Friend of God (Abraham)..."

I like what is offers about Salih, as I see it is reflected in every age.

"....His admonitions, however, yielded no fruit, and His pleading proved of no avail. Several times He retired and lived in seclusion. All this, although that eternal Beauty was summoning the people to no other than the city of God. Even as it is revealed: “And unto the tribe of Thamúd We sent their brother Ṣáliḥ. ‘O my people,’ said He, ‘Worship God, ye have none other God beside Him.…’ They made reply: ‘O Ṣáliḥ, our hopes were fixed on thee until now; forbiddest thou us to worship that which our fathers worshipped? Truly we misdoubt that whereunto thou callest us as suspicious.’” This includes a quote from Qur’án - 11:61

The Indian Subcontinent has most likely had quite a few, Krishna being one, but it is said that it is up to future Historians to decide who may have been a Prophet/Manifestations in this case.

The Native American Indians will have some, the Australian Aboriginal will have had some. All nations, in one way or another, would have been guided by such a soul.

The issue we face is the evolution of humanity from his animal condition into our spiritual reality.

Regards Tony

 

[wil]

How does this manifestation work out?

the mothers egg or fathers sperm is divine?During conception? At birth? All of the above or is it Michaelangelo's G!d pointing his finger?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

How does this manifestation work out?

the mothers egg or fathers sperm is divine?During conception? At birth? All of the above or is it Michaelangelo's G!d pointing his finger?

I see this is explained by the virgin birth teaching.

Though a Manifestation of God is born into the Material World from the Mother's womb, they are already pre-existant.

This is the connection of the Spirt/Soul we are talking about and not the flesh body. The human is born of the human spirit, which is given at conception, the Messengers, though they are born human, they come from the Holy Spirit, it was already preordained.

This is where some concepts of Hindu belief and Buddha concepts are also reflected. We are in the Matrix of our spiritual capacity.

The Bible offers we must be born from the flesh into the Spirit, that is from our human condition and tendencies into the reality of the Holy Spirit. The Messengers are all born as the embodiment of a perfect human, our greatest example, the emanation of the Holy Spirit.

This is why the Bible talks about life and death, that there is more to this life and there is more than one death.

There is lots to discuss on this topic.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

Well, as I see it, Christians and Baha'is will throw scripture quotes at each other till the cows come home.

Quite – and there's the issue. Isolated scripture references, often taken out of context, can be used to support almost any position – any doctrine.

Can we think of other ways to conduct the conversation? Instead of trying to prove each other wrong, what else could we try?

I'm working up a 'in defence of the Trinity' as a basis of dialogue – an apologia, if you like.

@Tone Bristow-Stagg – I asked a while ago "... are there Baha'i theological writings on the nature of the Divine? How do the Baha'i approach the age-old question of the One-ness and simplicity of the Divine, and the multiplicity of the world? How, from the One, indivisible Essence, does creation arise?"

 

[RJM]

It’s clear to me from these discussions that the Baha’i people around here are sincere folks with a gentle faith that does no harm. I suppose my own reaction is usually to defend and correct misconceptions and ‘fake news’ about the Catholic church as I perceive it from a Catholic point of view — a casual and loose Catholic, it must be said.

IMO these discussions have been interesting and educational. I apologise for any offence I may have caused by taking an antagonistic position. I've personally become far more sympathetic now ...

 

[wil]

I think the path to a connection with the allness is based on our level of consciousness...not to say one level is higher than another... tje channel religion) you turn the dial to, it all depends on what you wanna hear. (News, sports, music) what resonates with you in the moment. Some don't need a G!d or religion....some don't understand the language of a religion....every religion requires the eyes and ears that are the key to fit in the lock to open your faucet to the allness.

Only the bahai need to think that their dude is the latest prophet...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

@Tone Bristow-Stagg – I asked a while ago "... are there Baha'i theological writings on the nature of the Divine? How do the Baha'i approach the age-old question of the One-ness and simplicity of the Divine, and the multiplicity of the world? How, from the One, indivisible Essence, does creation arise?"

The most comprehensive explanation on this question is found in the Kitab-i-iqan.

Baha'u'llah revealed the book of certitude in the response to a question from the uncle of the Bab. The uncle asked how it was possible his nephew was a Messenger of God.

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/kitab-i-iqan/

The next work to pursue is a provisional translation of the 'Tablet of the Universe' by Abdul'baha, it explains in great detail how creation came into being via the emanation of the Holy Spirit.

https://bahai-library.com/abdul-baha_lawh_aflakiyyih

If I am to answer your question from my understanding, then I could offer is and oversimplification, most likely inaccurate account as a thought.

There are also many Tablets where Baha'u'llah has explained the interaction of God with humanity.

So I quote from the Tablet of the Universe

"Praise be to God Who hath ever caused His Names and Attributes to penetrate the degrees of existence; Who hath made the effects of those Names and Attributes to shine resplendent and their signs to be firmly established in both the hidden and manifest worlds. By them He hath made the holy realities that are informed by His grace and are the recipients of His outpourings to be the sole revealers of all that pertaineth unto Him, and hath caused them to move through the firmament of perfection in arcs of descent and ascent. He hath ordained these Names and Attributes to be the first and foremost origin and cause of being in the world of creation and the source of the different grades of realities in the degrees of existence. When, through its power of attraction and propagation, the Day-Star of Names and Attributes shone upon the hidden realities in the heart of the unseen realm, they issued forth, were spread abroad, scattered about, set in order, became the recipients of the grace of God and His outpourings, and were made to be the sole manifestations of the Divine conditions and Eternal signs. Emerging from behind the veils, they appeared clothed in raiments of light, moving in the firmament of the unity of God, in orbits of sanctity and circles of glorification....."

That is the Beginning and the End, that is all the Messengers who have been and will be made manifest into the Material Matrixes throughout all creation. That is Christ, the Manifestations of the entire creation in all the world of God, to all creatures in all worlds.

The Tablet of the Universe is an amazing revelation, yet Abdul'baha was able to write that as only Abdul'baha had a full grasp of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, the Father.

I love to talk about this, but as you can see, Christ for me is all creation a perfect reflection of the attributes given of God. Yet no attributes can define the Unknowable Essence, the Attributes to me, define the Messengers who are our only knowledge and path to God.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Oh, for sure.
"And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many." (Matthew 24:4-5) "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many... But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (24:11, 13) "And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.(24:15, my emphasis)

"Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand."
(24:24-25)

I see all this in a different light Thomas.

Jesus also tells us how to determine a True Prophet. So amongst the False, there will be a Thief in the Night, that is True.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Which is what happened at Pentecost ... the Dogmas of Incarnation and Trinity are revealed by the Holy Spirit when He illuminates the meaning of the words and deeds of Christ 'he will teach you all things' ...

I see that interpretation is not going so well. There has been 3 Messages from God since Jesus. I see we need to embrace them all to get a better understanding of what may be 'All Truth'.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

I see all this in a different light Thomas.

But the followers of any false Christ figure would see it their own way, would they not?

I see that interpretation is not going so well.

For whom?

There has been 3 Messages from God since Jesus

Says who? You make that a statement of fact. The only fact is that the followers of these figures believe they were the true messengers that they claimed to be?

I see we need to embrace them all to get a better understanding of what may be 'All Truth'.

Others disagree. It's just what you yourself believe?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Says who? You make that a statement of fact. The only fact is that the followers of these figures believe they were the true messengers they claimed to be?

Muhammad and the Quran. The Bab with the Bayan and many Writings. Baha'u'llah with the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and over 100 Volumes.

They all stand alone for judgement as true or false.

Any test one can use to prove Jesus True, would be applicable to use for Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But the followers of a false Christ figure would see it their own way, would they not?

That is what Faith is all about, choices. It is the quandary we face in this life.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

For whom?

For those that follow Jesus. It is not a logical interpretation.

Just saw in the ABC news that the Anglican Church has split. Therein lays a sign that the interpretation has grave problems.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Muhammad and the Quran. The Bab with the Bayan and many Writings. Baha'u'llah with the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and over 100 Volumes.

They all stand alone for judgement as true or false.

Any test one can use to prove Jesus True, would be applicable to use for Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

That is what Faith is all about, choices. It is the quandary we face in this life.

Regards Tony

Yes. It’s what you believe. That doesn’t make it the truth — certainly not the only truth for everyone else on the planet

Anyway ...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Yes. It’s what you believe. That doesn’t make it the truth — certainly not the only truth for everyone else on the planet

Anyway ...

The Truth is the Truth, no matter what you or I beleive.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

The Truth is the Truth, no matter what you or I beleive.

Regards Tony

We live by our own truth, each one of us — God knows the soul of every living creature. The problem with religion starts with believers needing to impose their truth upon others — for their own benefit and for the good of the world, obviously.

Just be quiet inside. Let the world turn without your help.
Sorry ...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

We live by our own truth, each one of us — God knows the soul of every living creature. The problem with religion starts with believers needing to impose their truth upon others — for their own benefit and for the good of the world, obviously.

Just be quiet inside. Let the world turn without your help.
Sorry ...

Yet God guides us and that Guidance tells us to offer to others what God has given via a Messenger. So do not be sorry

That is why it is a Message, it has to be told, and most importantly has to be lived by those that share it.

A human needs an education, and a educator, we would be but an animal if we were not given this power of reason and comprehension of Good and Evil.

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

The Truth is the Truth, no matter what you or I beleive.

I believe it's possible that there may not be any absolute truth.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I believe it's possible that there may not be any absolute truth.

I see for us there is only relative truth, as we are finite beings.

But Logically there is Truth for there to be error.

Light - darkness, Heat - Cold.

This is a good meditation, as really only the Attributes exist, the remainder is lack of the Attributes.

So we can consider only Truth exists and what we contemplate, is only relevant to our capacity of understanding.

Regards Tony

 

[Cino]

But Logically there is Truth for there to be error.

In the realm of logic, sure. But to accomodate paradox - which Oneness must be able to, I think - logic is too limited a domain?

Light - darkness, Heat - Cold.

Duality, right? How to unify with Oneness?

This is a good meditation, as really only the Attributes exist, the remainder is lack of the Attributes.

Is that lack not part of Oneness?

So we can consider only Truth exists and what we contemplate, is only relevant to our capacity of understanding.

My belief is that our perception of Truth is dependent on there being perception in the first place.