Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

Dave:

Quote:


Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth

God made us with free will to do good or evil. When Adam sinned sin entered the world, and we became like God knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

God wants us to choose to love Him; He wants us to choose to do right.
There is eternal life with God one day without sin and sickness and death.
We have to choose what we want for ourselves now so that we can have that life with God through Jesus Christ.
 
Jesustruth:

Here is Martin Luther's view of free will. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?
Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
 
Jesustruth:

Originally Posted by 1689dave

Here is Martin Luther's view of free will. Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?


Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
Luther and Calvin and all sects from them teach wrong about the condition of humans.

We are spirit and flesh and not all only want to please their flesh with sin.

People are taught wrong about many scriptures.

For instance, Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
 
Wait going to finish you will see and in the end A secret of freewill will be explained !
 
Ellis Bell said :

Maybe this will help (I believe the man, L. Ray Smith, who authored this website is deceased)

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
"Free will does not actually and literally mean that one can make choices, create, change his mind, or reformulate ideas and data, etc., but that those choices and thought processes must themselves be free thoughts and free choices. "Free will" is only true if our choices are also free. But free from what? Why, free from being forced upon us against our will, or free from being caused by anyone or anything except our OWN will. And so, yes, man can think, process data, make choices, change his choices, etc. But none of these activities are free from internal or external CAUSES.
<snip>
Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even "force,' if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about."
I've had people in my life that would not do me any favors, change their minds and help me with situations. It's really odd to watch, cause it's like, what just happened?
 
@davidsheep88 Just a reminder, this is a member discussion forum. Please refrain from re-posting comments made on other forums and websites as your reply. dattaswami2 was just banned for doing so.
 
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We continue with freewill and lucifer if he had freewill but continuing on what freewill and here something very importnat if we had freewill.

If the word exist in the world there is the word in hebrew.

“Freedom of Choice;” a fundamental belief of the Jewish Religion. “Bechirah” means “choice;” “Chofshit” means “free.” The concept means that the human being is not forced to choose “good” or “evil,” but is free to choose between them. This is, of course, the most fundamental choice of all, the one which the Bible associates with the choice between “life” and “death,” for which the Bible recommends “Choose Life.” Or, as the Talmud teaches “Everything is in the hands of Heaven except the “fear of Heaven.”


The belief in free will (Hebrew: bechirah chofshit בחירה חפשית, bechirah בחירה) is in jewish thought axiomatic thought , and is closely linked with the concept of reward and punishment, based on the Torah itself: "I [God] have set before you life and death, blessing and curse: therefore choose life" (Deuteronomy 30:19).

Free will is therefore discussed at length in jewish philosophy, firstly as regards God's purpose in creation, and secondly as regards the closely related, resultant, paradox. The topic is also often discussed in connection with negative theology, divine simplicity and divine providence, as well as jewish principals of faith in general.

God does give us a choice limited but we have limited freewill.


Also the word לִבְחוֹר

livkhór is ( To choose )

together with this word

חֵרוּת

( Freedom ) another word.

Freewill did existed and in Deutronomy 30:19 God did give a choice two but still he did. And life is a good choice a great choice. Is their more of freewill in Judaism ? Yes, there is more and more to come. The best is yet to come !
 
We continue in freewill I have more information and bible verses talking about freewill in greek and hebrew. Gonna finish it all. We have the answers of freewill. The solution of freewill and great writting and rich of many people of hebrew point of view, greek, and english. There are great writters and works everyone will see freewill in this thread and will do good. Don't worry good things coming a lot of work know many things and going slow because it is big subjective and cannot be talk about simply we must live our freewill with love to find secret things in life.
 
Free will, simply put, is sometimes defined as "you could have done otherwise"
There are a faction of philosophers out there, hard determinists I think they call themselves, who insist free will is not the case, they outright think that people could not choose otherwise.
But, the whole purpose of having a brain and a nervous system is to be able to assess our environment and be flexible enough to make different choices in reaction to our environment. What would the use of that be if hard determinism were actually reality?
So I'm more in the free will camp. Insofar as behavior. I recognize we cannot altogether chose what we feel or believe, we can work to influence those things, but there's an involuntary element to that. But I don't buy that it makes actions involuntary.
Maybe the controversy has to do with the entire concept needing to be made more clear. Free will is often misconstrued as wish fulfillment, and since we don't have instant wish fulfillment people think we don't have free will or something. It's like they don't think it through.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Free will, simply put, is sometimes defined as "you could have done otherwise"
Click to expand...
..or better still:-

You could have done otherwise, if you had wanted to do otherwise.

This means that our destinies can actually be determined ( a destined future ), as
those destinies can be formed partly by the choices we wanted to make. (as opposed to 'set')
The confusion arises due to our comprehension of past and future .. the feeling that they somehow
operate in different ways.
In reality, they do not .. as Einstein has explained. :)
 
Devalue victims: People may change how they view the people affected by their actions.

When human nature resorts to violence and wishes to obtain what it wants ? To know and to control. It becames self-destructive in nature. What are animals that self destructive.

Lemmings are an example that migration is needed and if they complete thier natural cycle or do not complete it they end their life no matter what.

All this comes from the time of Babylon this nature that if we do not understand something we destroy it. Babylon in it's time was by nature the strongest civilization and the other ones were destroyed any one who challenge babylon was punish. it was said that of all the cruelest civilzation Babylon was the cruelest and even crueller than egypt and rome. Babylon in it's time will crucify people on palm trees, will kill your child, and things I will not say. because it is nature of human surviving in this world.

Natural defense of evil man had and for them it natural to kill people. Here in the modern day we limited ourselves. But egyptians and romans killing and punishment in those days was light compare to what Babylonians do to each other.

Humans have not evolve because still we speak a language mixed by then and we do not speak how God made us. What does to person that you grab him don't teach to speak english and he speaks a language and teach him esperanto and not the whole language but quarter of it ? and you put him in the middle east back in the time of the bronze age and he multiply and he had a tribe but does not know who is why he speaks another language and finds other humans who don't speak like you. And you want to know why ? Why your here who did this to you and why you speak different and the only way to make people respect your land is with violence ?

There is a movie like that !
 
People do one thing throughout history and some of us have innate ability to have and some us don't have and worst some of us don't have but live it and don't realize it ?

Do they know their purpose in life ? Is lying the most simplest things humankind do to live their life and lying is useful we don't stop no more we don't realize we can't stop lying we can't detect it no matter we do then ?

Lying is going to be the subject of freewill. Lying exist is it good when Abraham lied to save his life ? Do we need to do neccesary evil and God let's it happen ? :O

Is lying part of your life ? Do you lie to obtain yourself what you want, what part of the human behavior is needed to lie ? To be a victime does this make you uncomfortable in your life ?

First apology to you do not want to pressure you. I respect your life if you lie in a marriage and lie to your husband and to your children and for you it's a white lie. Transparent lie of course. It's not important but some you cannot lie because it is a sin ? What is the nature of good and evil when you lie to do good ? Or lie to do evil ?
 
We see people that civilzation does something and it is wrong since the beggining of men that all civilzation does is copy each other is human concept if you look at all humanity and find the root it is about Babylon. We copy and we see other do things because we think it will help us to find solutions or get to our goals. Humans copy animals and you see hieroglyphs and chinese characters in their writtings their all animals.

One word can mean a thousands things, and A thousand things means one word.

What do human do all of it's history ? They want to be like animals to have thier power they wanna be someone else because they are afraid ! The behavior of humanity and I studied a lot of pyschology is that humans don't want to be themselves because themselves is weak for human recognition. Humans can't see themselves fixing promblems they have to someone else, they want to be someone else to fix their promblem.

They copy lies and that's what humans do lies ! You don't see in any place a powerful civilization without God's it's something we talk about it. All civilization have God's and idols is what is simple. Their idols are animals because they want to have powers like them a man cannot see himself as God it makes an animal or an image and wants to be that because he thinks he's promblem is solved and worst he thinks he came from such animal like the lion, eagle, or bear. And he must go thru a phase and will be reborn like the sun God and he will comeback as goat or a bear and be like his animal figure. No.

Their is no such thing.
 
They also went to believe in this

Reincarnation is the belief that a person's soul or spirit is reborn into a new body after death. It's also known as rebirth or transmigration.

Where is reincarnation believed?
  • Hinduism: A core tenet of Hinduism, reincarnation is also known as the transmigration of souls.
  • Buddhism: A key component of Buddhism, reincarnation explains the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.
Why do people believe in animals in their mythology, why want to be someone else to fix your promblems ? People want easy or simple things it's because humans are confused and they don't know who they are ? They live lies and do we do the same today ? People want to be a car, want to be a hollywood actor , they wan and want !

They don't know who they are that's humanity wants because it wants lie and copies other because lying give you idea that you can have what you want !

What about truth does it give you what you want ? Do you have truth in your life and you have a good relationship with your husband or wife ? This are important things do you have truth that you know and your not animal or car a or another superheroe you copy in your day ?

Guess what do you have God's truth and you realize you don't want to be someone else you want to be who you are and it works ? You found yourself and you feel good you pass your tests that you have an answer in life and it works for you and you don't lie ?
 
Who are you really ? Who are you really ? Do you really know yourself and you stop being like the world ? Have you fixed the promblem that bother you when you were young ? Did you achieve the purpose of you life or you don't know it ?

I apologize to you do not wish to offend talking about freewill and all of this is part of freewill and it's part of the plan of God. We see example of humans in time that are stuck with that and we have evolve in time and now in the twenty first century. Humans have made breakthrus and more people have a purpose fulfill and live a life where everyoen can have college and complete you goal, their dream ! And can be rich or be an actor or president of their country ? Many here don't know and have not. Why ?

People spent their whole life finding the meaning of life and many have different answers. They found they wanted to a famous artist, they want to save their father from a disease, they found that the meaning of life isn't one thing people and that we are all made for different things and purpose and if a painter spent all his life to make the perfect painting he achieved what he wanted. A musician finds the song he wanted and millions of people like it and finally writter writes the perfect book and millions love it. it's a lovestory that's good and you wanted it but guess what that those are Why you are here but is it finally what God wants ?
 
Perhaps it's being rock cutter, fold mattresses, or just build machines in a factory ? You don't know why your here perhaps God sent you here to be one of those people you want or to be who you are and be happy who you are !

The bible says it he knows who you are and before he sent you he knew you. Who you were in heaven is mystery and you don't know. And now it's time that their no more lies in your life and you don't want to be an animal, you don't want to a car, you wanna be the person you were before he sent you here ?

Too much for you ? Maybe you don't want to be because so many errors you have done.

You don't want but God wants you to be that person ! Our lives are made to reach a goal in society and we lie and do what Rome does and Babylon does want to be someone else ! It's not an answer it's the nature of humanity to blame others and it's lie. It is what an eye for an eye exist and not look for love what the bible says to love thy neighbor and forgive. it's too hard and worst perhaps what we do if we don't understand what God sent us here what do we do then ? Destroy things and do what romans do or what Babylons do.


Perhaps that is why we do things and Babylon means that confusement you don't who you really you are and men and women don't know what God gives them and what he gaves in the time of Israel that we need so much. What is more important what was in heaven that he wants us to be like his servants. Their is verse in bible it says in matthew and luke and Jesus says in a prayer that we might ask God to be his will be done and not ours and his will like heaven to do on heaven. Complicated real complicated. How to start that ? How ? Their are many verses that do tell how is heaven is like what they do all day and heavens culture.

Really complicated how about you do the hard thing people how about you don't be like the world educates you in school not what tv and commercial tell you want to be and guess what be yourself but be the one you were in heaven before you came here ? What you don't know this your limit and it is the limit of all that I know that can't know and don't want to because they are afraid !
 
Be the person you were in heaven guess what ! It is part of God's plan to find yourself. People fight all their life against thier nature and animal nature. You fear and don't know and what people say no I don't have to give anything to God, the world wronged me, and finally what are you talking about ? How can I do that ? hahahahaha.

It is God's plan to do what he wants and before he sent you he had a plan for you and he told you what to do. This is where is hard and if he sent me why didn't he tell me sooner. If your offended good -_-.

It's not easy to do his plan it's not easy for anyone they don't tell us to do his plan they mess us up. They feed you garbage and make you live a lie and you learn a lie because everyone does it that's no answer this are hard things in life and some of you question yourself ?

Let me help you perhaps this will do you good.

Maybe God sent you here because he wanted you to do something for your family ? Maybe he sent when your family needed you the most. You don't know perhaps because you were borned you mom and dad love each other more and found a purpose they wanted to have a family and found out real love they decided to baptized and you baptized too! Perhaps that's why he sent you here thanks to that they were saved. All children are part of them and some of them don't know they completed that plan and he is happy.

One of those purpose is that God wanted that and that is all he doesn't struggle no more for some it is the plan of God and God promise them from heaven when they were their that was their mission. Simple God does that and many people have written their lifestory and know they were sent to do one thing or do something else and know that some supernatural force or will of universe put them for a reason. God put a child to make their family. Bible says it everything is planned by God and king Solomon says it.
 
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