Demons/Daimons

[c0de]

Hello again EC

Code,

As you seem to agree already, a true experience with a angel would not involve the same degree of speculation as a so-called experience with a demon or djinn (which would always inherently be pure speculation). But since such experiences would always be personal, how can it be completely conveyed to others? I know there's value in sharing experiences when its at the right time, but why are you so adamant about me providing an example?

Forgive me dude, a lack of sleep is making me a little slow....

I was just curious about what an absolute spiritual experience could be because people could say the same thing about a prophet's experience with angels, they could say it was maybe and what ifs, like they do. But I see your point. I do agree, experience with jins and demons are different and not necessarily qualified to reside in the spiritual category.

 

[Pathless]

It is also interesting to me to consider this question of balance from the perspective of the "Parable of the Talents:



A talent is an indication of human potential. If it encourages us to develop other talents so as to become balanced at a higher level, it serves universal purpose. However if we have one talent and build our lives around it, society loves us but eventually we lose everything from becoming so drastically out of balance. Such a talent can become a demonic obsession.

Nick, your commentary on the parable seems to me to have little relation to what the parable is talking about. The "talent" being referred to is some kind of coin, is it not? The parable is about hoarding and investing. I can kind of see how you are interpreting it, but really there is no indication from the text that the servant that buried his talent was trying to cultivate it to gain the love of society; instead, he hid it out of fear of his master, or perhaps out of laziness as the master suggests. On the other hand, the two servants who took their talents and spread them around in the world gained some extra money and the master was well-pleased with them. He gave them more responsibilities and even took the talent from the hoarder and gave it to the one with ten.

Honestly, I dislike this parable deeply. It is flawed from the beginning with its master-slave relationship. The way I read it, none of the servants are independent. All three, for whatever reason, have allowed the master to elevate himself above them. They have bought into his superiority and their own inferiority. There is no equality at all in this parable. There is a master and three servants, and each of the servants is ranked in a hierarchy: one is worth five talents, one is worth two, and one is worth one. It is not at all surprising to me that the one who has been denigrated to the level of being worth only one talent has no motivation to go to work for the master, who is really quite an aristocratic ass.

 

[arthra]

I was interested a few months ago in how many people actually believe demons existed so L posted two polls in two different forums...

One was a Christian Forum and the other was a Reliogious Forum, more interfaith.

I asked the same questions in the poll and didn't change the wording...Here were my questions and results:

I strongly believe that demons are real

1545.45%

I think there may be demons

39.09%

I doubt there are such beings as demons

412.12%

Demons don't exist

1133.33%



21
41.18%

I think there may be demons

611.76%

I doubt there are such beings as demons

1121.57%

Demons do not exist

1325.49%

Voters: 51.


Anyway about 53 to 55 % seem to believe in demons while 45 to 46% either doubt or disbelieve in demons. I compared this to some other results asked of wider populations and the results are similar.. Most people tend to believe inthe reality of demons. I suspect this has to do to religious beliefs based ostensibly on the Bible or the Qur'an.

Baha'is tend to believe "demons" are more related as a metaphor for the lower nature of man and have no independent supernaral reality.

- Art

 

[Nick_A]

Nick, your commentary on the parable seems to me to have little relation to what the parable is talking about. The "talent" being referred to is some kind of coin, is it not? The parable is about hoarding and investing. I can kind of see how you are interpreting it, but really there is no indication from the text that the servant that buried his talent was trying to cultivate it to gain the love of society; instead, he hid it out of fear of his master, or perhaps out of laziness as the master suggests. On the other hand, the two servants who took their talents and spread them around in the world gained some extra money and the master was well-pleased with them. He gave them more responsibilities and even took the talent from the hoarder and gave it to the one with ten.

Honestly, I dislike this parable deeply. It is flawed from the beginning with its master-slave relationship. The way I read it, none of the servants are independent. All three, for whatever reason, have allowed the master to elevate himself above them. They have bought into his superiority and their own inferiority. There is no equality at all in this parable. There is a master and three servants, and each of the servants is ranked in a hierarchy: one is worth five talents, one is worth two, and one is worth one. It is not at all surprising to me that the one who has been denigrated to the level of being worth only one talent has no motivation to go to work for the master, who is really quite an aristocratic ass.

This is really off topic but I just feel it necessary to at least explain superficially that I appreciate the purpose of parables probably differently then you do. You are caught up with its external meaning and societal values. I appreciate a parable as psychological so the psychological purpose is to experience the parable within our own presence.

What does money symbolize in our psychology. What is an inner value. Can a talent be considered something that has inner value for us and something that can be expanded upon. Just consider this excerpt on the nature of parables. It isn't the norm since it is classic transcendent Interfaith but still can be food for thought:

The object of all sacred writings is to convey higher meaning and higher knowledge in terms of ordinary knowledge as a startingpoint. The parables have an ordinary meaning. The object of the parable is to give a man higher meaning in terms of lower meaning in such a way that he can either think for himself if not. The parable is an instrument devised for this purpose. It can fall on man literally, or it can make him think for himself. It invites him to think for himself. A man first understands on his ordinary, matteroffact or natural level. To lift the understanding, whatever is taught must first fall on this level to some extent, to form a startingpoint. A man must get hold of what he is taught, to begin with, in a natural way. But the parable has meaning beyond its literal or natural sense. It is deliberately designed to fall first on the ordinary level of the mind and yet to work in the mind in the direction of lifting the natural level of comprehension to another level of meaning. From this point of view, a parable is a transforming instrument in regard to meaning. As we shall see later the parable is a connecting medium between a lower and a higher level in development of the understanding. The Gospels speak mainly of a possible inner evolution called "rebirth".
that it is their central idea.​

Let us begin by taking inner evolution as meaning a development of the understanding. The Gospels teach that a man living on this Earth is capable of undergoing a definite inner evolution if he comes in contact with definite teaching on this subject. For that reason, Christ said: "I am the Way and the truth, and the life" (John xiv, 6). This inner evolution is psycho logical. To become a more understanding person is a psychological development. It lies in the realm of the thoughts, the feelings, the actions, and, in short, the understanding. A man is his understanding. If you wish to see what a man is, and not what he is like, look at the level of his understanding. The Gospels speak, then, of a real psychology based on the teaching that Man on earth is capable of a definite inner evolution in understanding. ​

The parable protects us from having deeper meaning absorbed by our more shallow secular literal aspects of our personality. I can appreciate why you find the parable offensive from a secular societal perspective but I try to appreciate the parable as a description of my psychology and its tendency to appreciate imbalance rather then be willing to sacrifice these good feelings for the sense of striving to consciously partake more in objective universal human purpose.​

 

[Netti-Netti]

If you don't believe in demons, would that man you don't believe in angels either?

This passage from the Urantia Book is somewhat vague:

In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.
​

Urantia Book, Paper 53: Section 8 -- The Son Of Man On Urantia

"Comparatively impotent" could mean still some residual influence at this time.

 

[seattlegal]

If you don't believe in demons, would that man you don't believe in angels either?

This passage from the Urantia Book is somewhat vague:

In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.
​

Urantia Book, Paper 53: Section 8 -- The Son Of Man On Urantia

"Comparatively impotent" could mean still some residual influence at this time.

James 1:14-15
13 No one undergoing a trial should say, "I am being tempted by God." For God is not tempted by evil, and He Himself doesn't tempt anyone. 14 But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desires. 15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death.​

 

[Dream]

If you don't believe in demons, would that man you don't believe in angels either?

This passage from the Urantia Book is somewhat vague:

In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.
​

Urantia Book, Paper 53: Section 8 -- The Son Of Man On Urantia

"Comparatively impotent" could mean still some residual influence at this time.

Please tell me we're not getting the Urantia Book for a homework assignment. Please. Pretty please?

 

[Pathless]

Please tell me we're not getting the Urantia Book for a homework assignment. Please. Pretty please?

Dream, please write a 5 paragraph essay on Paper 50, sections 1-3.

Urantia Book, Paper 50 -- The Planetary Princes
Urantia Book, Paper 50: Section 2 -- Planetary Administration
Urantia Book, Paper 50: Section 3 -- The Prince's Corporeal Staff


Due the day after Christmas.

K? Thnnx.

 

[Dream]

...They enter the transition slumber and awaken delivered from their mortal investment and clothed with morontia forms, ready for seraphic transportation back to the system capital, where their detached Adjusters await them....

I think the above quote is the central point of those three sections, and it means, in short: "Don't let anyone put you into transition slumber, because they'll detach your Adjusters." I'm actually not very familar with the terminology, but it sounds pretty scary.