Bad translations, Misinterpations add ons. What do we really know??

TheKhan said:
I should have known this, but when I saw this in words it struck me. I kind of always assumed that God ruled over Heaven and Hell if it existed. Maybe due to buddhism. How can a fallen angel rule over anything? Thats why I always think Christians give s*tan with a small-case "s" too much credit! Why not make him into a little guy, or at least nothing beyond what the top angels are to us. Our top angels don`t have kingdoms to rule.. why should a fallen angel have his own domain?

Are Christians sure they are not surrendering power needlessly?

TK
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If you read the "history of the angels", you'll find that Lucifer (aka Satan, Bielzabub, etc...) is an Arch angel, and was second only to God. When he and 1/3rd of heaven fell in the wars, they were cast to earth. Lucifer saw man as a nemisis, while God saw man as respite. One of the Ironies of man is that he gets to choose which way to go....towards God, or towards Lucifer. Both claim to know the better way to go and such, but the bottom line is, who will care for man, in man's best interests?

Hence the battle of principalities over the air, over man. There is a battle going on over little ole us that we have no clue about, while we do stupid things to eachother down here, just like little kids that we are...
 
Quahom1 said:
.. is an Arch angel, and was second only to God. When he and 1/3rd of heaven fell in the wars, they were cast to earth...
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I kind of roughly knew the story but I didn`t know he was the top Arch angel. I thought he was around #3.

Anyways, I should have thought of this too, but if they were cast to earth wouldn`t that make our world hell?

I added a piece in my previous post at the p.s. section. I`m gonna go with the buddhist take on this, most likely forever. We are under-valuing God by these Christian concepts. And I don`t recall any of prophets saying anything like "history of the angels" (am I right??).

Who the hell said *atan was an Arch angel and previously next to God, btw?? Was it a man, who added this section again. I`m gonna check this out right this minute.


TK
 
TheKhan said:
I kind of roughly knew the story but I didn`t know he was the top Arch angel. I thought he was around #3.

Anyways, I should have thought of this too, but if they were cast to earth wouldn`t that make our world hell?

I added a piece in my previous post at the p.s. section. I`m gonna go with the buddhist take on this, most likely forever. We are under-valuing God by these Christian concepts. And I don`t recall any of prophets saying anything like "history of the angels" (am I right??).

Who the hell said *atan was an Arch angel and previously next to God, btw?? Was it a man, who added this section again. I`m gonna check this out right this minute.


TK
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Actually, the history of angels is throughout the the bible, but you have to read it to get the story...

People can ignore what is, and that is their free choice. i know what I know, and choose not to ignore.

When you find yourself pulling 500 desperate Haitians from a sail boat designed for 12, and you can't get half of them out of the water fast enough to keep them from slipping below the waves, you'll understand the war that is going on over us.

v/r

Josh
 
I`ve concluded that satan is a relic concept from Zoroastrian dualism. Anyways this might not be the right thread to express this but I`m quite upset about how Christianity documents evil as something big.

Because if we think its big it becomes big for us, if we think its small it might become small.


TK
 
Quahom1 said:
.. When you find yourself pulling 500 desperate Haitians from a sail boat designed for 12, and you can't get half of them out of the water fast enough to keep them from slipping below the waves, you'll understand the war that is going on over us...
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Blame yourself before you blame the fallen angel. my friend.

what you just stated is just from our ignorance, and bad choices.

TK
 
TheKhan said:
I`ve concluded that satan is a relic concept from Zoroastrian dualism. Anyways this might not be the right thread to express this but I`m quite upset about how Christianity documents evil as something big.

Because if we think its big it becomes big for us, if we think its small it might become small.


TK
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One of the greatest feats of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist...
 
Quahom1 said:
One of the greatest feats of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist...
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I`ve never been convinced that he doesn`t exist.. these days.
I`m just convinced that Christians give him a bigger realm in our minds.
That we have a choice not to give.

TK
 
TheKhan said:
I`ve never been convinced that he doesn`t exist.. these days.
I`m just convinced that Christians give him a bigger realm in our minds.
That we have a choice not to give.

TK
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We as humans may be stronger than the devil, but we are not smarter...that's why we need God to keep us from losing sight of the truth...
 
Quahom1 said:
One of the greatest feats of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist...
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As a general statement,

I think it was one of the greatest feats of the devil to leave his signature all over the bible.

And then people doing all kinds of wonders for him by aggregating and relaying his presence. In essence to me, every time his name is called it is a small victory for evil.

Our ultimate goal is not to know evil to identify evil, it is to somewhat become like Adam prior to the fall. And according to the book, in the extreme scenario Adam would be the oldest and first soul to be with the fallen angel, which I think we all might want to disagree.

TK
 
Quahom1 said:
One of the greatest feats of the devil is to convince us he doesn't exist...
Click to expand...

Oh, Satan exists alright, and he is indeed more powerful than human beings insofar as he was one of God's archangels, and thus (ironically) has knowledge of God that humans don't. However, what I learned about the devil in Sunday School and what I've learned about him by actually reading the Bible are two quite different stories. Examples include...

1. In Sunday School I learned that the devil rules over a place called Hell. According to the Bible, the devil rules over Earth.

2. In Sunday School I learned that people who are bad and die go to Hell to be punished in a lake of fire. According to the Bible, the lake of fire is being prepared alright, but nobody has been sent there yet.

Understanding the true nature of Satan and of Hell has absolutely revolutionized my understanding of God and of Jesus Christ. Evil is real, and Satan is real, but God remains in full control. Opportunists within the church have risen to positions of power, have instilled fear within us, and then have used that fear against us for a multitude of ends that all basically result in more power for church leadership. Anyone who says or implies that God is looking forward to the day that he will punish souls with eternal damnation is just looking for their turn to swing the stick.

Q, I certainly believe that there's a war going on, but not that kind of war. The war we should be concerned with is not between God and Satan, but between the goodness God has created us with and the evil of sin that is an inevitable part of having free will to choose between being good or evil. Those Haitians died because somewhere along the line there were ambitious people who took advantage of their power in order to glorify themselves, or to inflict hurt on others. Those people are the children of Satan, and through them Satan rules this world.
 
TheKhan said:
Thanks y`all on the ancient information.
Chaldean somehow sounds really familiar. I wonder who put the bells in churches sometimes..




Nothing. If I attacked you, Bishadi would be climbing my back so I`d refrain any further comment on this .. LOL on, LOL again.. :D You are funny guy.




I see your point. You`re against any kind of hellfire preaching, that somewhat contradicts the fundamental teachings of Christ.

A good question might be to ask, then should hellfire and the entire concept be deleted from the scriptures?? As there is a good chance that it was added later on. I think this was all intended to raise heads for those Christians who have no clue about Christianity, btw.

TK
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Actually I'm not against preaching if it were the truth. The word hell and the meaning of a place where God sent non believers was introduce when the Bible was translated into the latin version. Hell (a place of torture) was never, never taught by the prophets of the old testament. If they didn't preach and warn about enternal damnation Then there was a reason why. Also What kind of prophets would they have been if they did not warn people (espically God's chosen) about hell. If it were true. It was not. It was not taught then (O.T.) Moses,Abraham,Jacob, Eligh none taught are even meantion there was such a place. The people who can't see this is blinded either by God Himself or their so indoctrainated into their own religion that they can't or won't see it. I'm sure it's even a justafication for some to think that they are better than others. They (so called belivers) or better then the others because they go to chruch, pay their tithes, and go to confession, and are baptized, and the non believers don't. So they (belivers) go to heaven and the non believers go to hell. Pay back. It's such nonsince. Hell, there so much informantion about the truth of the word it takes a few min on the net to find it. It's well you get.
 
Marsh said:
I think you hit it right on, Winner. Even the biggest *******s of the OT didn't end up in the Hell of pop-culture; they just "slept with their fathers" like everyone else up until Jesus opened the way to Heaven. People assume that if there is a Heaven there must be a Hell, but I have read the Bible through many times and I've never seen any support for the idea that Satan rules over a place called Hell right now, and that "bad" people go there when they die. Hell is simply a big stick that religious authorities have used for centuries to keep people in line (the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom). However, a belief set without this kind of Hell is much more consistent with the teachings and person of Jesus Christ, who taught about love and forgave even the nastiest people.

And just think of the implications of how this single issue has affected and does affect Christian faith. How many people do you know who have objected to Christianity because, when you combine the concept of Hell with Jesus' claim that the path to God is through him, the conclusion is that non-Christians burn in Hell? All of the sudden that goes right out the window where it belongs, and we're left with a loving God who rescues people in this life, and in the next.
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THANK YOU MARSH, excatly right. FYI heaven is not a physical space rock somewhere in the sky where God lives and the good will go. The Bible states many many times that God lives in (us) our bodies. Our bodis are the temple of God. So if one takes the words that make up the scriptures one will see that.
But God also lives in heaven (the Realm) Not up in space somwhere. Heaven is meantion many times in the Bible, and it never say just like hell that it is a physical place. It is the realm of heaven. God live in the heavens (realm).
Yes just think if the preachers started preaching the truth about hell. It would turn the christian religion on their heads. What no hell well where will all the bad people go???? duh. they're going to the same place you are. It will just take a little longer. They will have to be judge and sentence. But after they pay their debt (by their strips) they will also be where you are.
 
Bishadi said:
that humilty requires honesty and integrity...........

if someone claims a position of fact and cannot back it up, is not humble to not knowing.....

that is the difference between the o8 and a winner

existence only operates ONE way, the winner knows this and does the homework before making claims

and then if existence only works in a single pure form, and a person can represent that into the universal language, and it be true, then be certain, that knowledge is beyond any belief, science or 'accepted knowledge'...

then to further than and know what the various theologies have mentioned, then it is easy to see how to recognize the 'good guy' the whole of humanity is awaiting...

because then each can UNDERSTAND!

it is why the knowledge 'gives life'

it is why the 'name' is the last word

as the 'name' is the frame within the universal language (math) to define existence, pure to existence.....
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I'm not sure what all that means even if it is concerning me. I admit I am not the smartest guy here or not even close. But I can say this I do and I mean I do look up scriptures to back what I say up. Most of the time I get no argument on the scriptures I use. Why? because no one can refute scriptures. No one can show me a scripture where God will not save all humans not just some. No one can show me where Jesus is not the Saviour of ALL sinners ( this includes every single human ever born) No one can show me a scripture that says that Hell is a place where God will send non believers. When Hell is hades and mean no such place as they would have one to believe. It takes alot of time and engery to look all these things up but I do because I want to make sure I have the scripture correct and that I can be sure that what I am saying is the truth (according to the scriptures) not man. or not my own opinion. Scripture, the inspierd word of God. Like I said I know I am not the smartest this is why I need scriptures to back me up.
 
TheKhan said:
I should have known this, but when I saw this in words it struck me. I kind of always assumed that God ruled over Heaven and Hell if it existed. Maybe due to buddhism. How can a fallen angel rule over anything? Thats why I always think Christians give s*tan with a small-case "s" too much credit! Why not make him into a little guy, or at least nothing beyond what the top angels are to us. Our top angels don`t have kingdoms to rule(or maybe not).. but why should a fallen angel have his own domain?

Are Christians sure they are not surrendering power needlessly?

TK

p.s. in buddhism hell is managed by a legitimate entity much like a prison. And all the demons in hell work for the top guy who is like the commissioner, so buddhist hell is gruesome but the management is clean cut. Evil is nothing but small in buddhism, by no means is it worth idolizing, which I think should be the way it is. It`s ultimately all God`s creation isn`t it?
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FYI: Satan does have a kingdom and it is here on earth. Just as when Satan tryed to temp Christ in the desert Satan said he would make Christ king over all the nations. Well satan had to be ruler of those nations in the first place in order to give the to Jesus. Jesus Himself said Satan is the ruler of this world and God said Satan will feed on the dust of the earth dust (man). So yes Satan is the ruler of this world But he only can go and do as much as God allowes him to do. Remember when Jesus expelled the demons from the people and the desciples did the same. Even the evil spirits had to listen to God.
 
I said in my reply that i needed to back my statements up with scriptures because I am not the smartest guy here.
I said God had total control over satan. That He can only do what God allows him to do. Here's some scripture to back it up.
Job 2:6 and the Lord said unto the Satan. Behold, he is in your hand, but save his life.
Matt 4:10-11 "Then Jesus said unto him get thee hence Satan. ( yes Jesus has total control over Satan)

I also said that satan was cursed and sentence to eat dust for the rest of his life.
I found this.
Gen 3:14 Because you have done this you are cursed more then all the cattle, and more then everuy best of the feild, on yuour belly you shall goand eat dust all of the days of your life.
Yes God has total control over Satan.
 
winner08 said:
Actually I'm not against preaching if it were the truth. The word hell and the meaning of a place where God sent non believers was introduce when the Bible was translated into the latin version. Hell (a place of torture) was never, never taught by the prophets of the old testament. If they didn't preach and warn about enternal damnation Then there was a reason why. Also What kind of prophets would they have been if they did not warn people (espically God's chosen) about hell. If it were true. It was not. It was not taught then (O.T.) Moses,Abraham,Jacob, Eligh none taught are even meantion there was such a place. The people who can't see this is blinded either by God Himself or their so indoctrainated into their own religion that they can't or won't see it. I'm sure it's even a justafication for some to think that they are better than others. They (so called belivers) or better then the others because they go to chruch, pay their tithes, and go to confession, and are baptized, and the non believers don't. So they (belivers) go to heaven and the non believers go to hell. Pay back. It's such nonsince. Hell, there so much informantion about the truth of the word it takes a few min on the net to find it. It's well you get.
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yada yada yada...

opinions, not based in fact. But keep searching...:)
 
Quahom1 said:
yada yada yada...

opinions, not based in fact. But keep searching...:)
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more then you ever done here. I got ,you try it. no it be to hard for you to do any research on the truth. you just like to pick.
these are facts backed by scripture. of course this does nothing for you because you dispised the word of God.
 
winner08 said:
more then you ever done here. I got ,you try it. no it be to hard for you to do any research on the truth. you just like to pick.
these are facts backed by scripture. of course this does nothing for you because you dispised the word of God.
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Good for you. Glad someone finally cornered the market on the absolute truth. It's been an on going concern of man's for the past, oh I don't know, for aeons at least.
 
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