Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

soleil10 said:
Christianity introduces God as a loving father. Islam does not. We are servants. Mohamed was a servant of God. Jesus introduces himself has a son of God.
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Islamic God is almost exactly similar to the Judaic God (The only difference being the special status of a particular tribe). Christianity on the other hand developed a new concept of "non-judgmental God" who only loves. This is something that needs to be analyzed philosophically & also historically. Since sinfulness was nailed to the cross (In the form of God's son that was man too), so was the law, since law got nailed, so there is no judgment. God (Kind of) sacrificed himself, so whats left there to judge?

But as Quran says "did God send you a proof for that?" What exactly is a loving-but-not-judging-God? Are we humans that perfect that we don't need a judge? What about the mass-murderers, rapists & looters....no judgment ? Is there any justice?

In Islam he judges, & yet his compassion/mercy is more that his justice. Humans are supposed to cleanse themselves, & for that they are rewarded. Essentially, we are all slaves/servants to him (If you don't believe me, try to escape his dominion), but then the are people from his slaves who earn the respect of becoming his friends. This is the same concept the OT labels as God's sons. Hindus call it God's bride. Trinitarian Christianity took a different trajectory of evolution, mainly after it went into Europe.
 
Faithfulservant said:
The God of the Bible is Not the god of the Q'uran

Completely different on all levels...
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Namaste FS,

Can you elaborate? What are the differences. What I'm getting at is that if I were to look at Elohim, and Jehova, and the representation of G!d in various books of the bible by the way the prophets or people portrayed G!d, it could easily be said their are various views of G!d. Interestingly enough, in the Quran we are looking at one author/prophet's understanding, instead of many.

But I'd love to see which Quranic verses on G!d you object to and how they are different than biblical scripture.

I say this because we often (not saying you) make decisions based on soundbites or what others have told us, or what we perceive based on actions instead of actually doing the research ourselves.

I am reminded of Sally, who was arguing with a woman about the mistreatment of women in Islam and how it was thru the Quran that this was allowed. Sally a Christian, challenged herself to read the Quran to prove her contentions, and when she did....well we now know her on this site as MuslimWoman....and I believe if I may, that she is still a faithful servant to G!d, she just now says Allah.
 
Farhan said:
In Islam he judges, & yet his compassion/mercy is more that his justice. Humans are supposed to cleanse themselves, & for that they are rewarded. Essentially, we are all slaves/servants to him (If you don't believe me, try to escape his dominion), but then the are people from his slaves who earn the respect of becoming his friends.
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It isn't Christianity, but that does not sound like Judaism to me either.

Citizenzen said:
So, are there TWO gods?
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It is impossible for there to be two all encompassing, perfected, independent powers that disagree. If there were, they would be different, and therefore they would have to oppose each other. Since they would be both different and opposed, one would consume the other before long -- long before us anyway. You cannot have Zeus, Osiris and Odin all in the same room except in comic books.

Whether or not they opposed each other, they would effectively be one power from our tiny perspective. Their effect upon us would be cumulative. Example of two powers: Gravity and electricity work together. Example of many powers: Every particle on earth has gravity, but to we tiny people it comes from the earth's center. Gravity has one cumulative effect, balanced. All that matters is where you are.
 
These two religions, however, insist that you can only experience that 'Gravity' from one location.
 
The term "forgiveness" appears 64 times in the Koran. In the Bible, the term appears only 15 times.

The Bible has over 31,000 verses. The Koran is much shorter, with just over only 6300 verses.

I calculated a density estimate for the forgiveness theme:

  • The Bible: .0005
  • The Koran: .01

Relative to the total number of verses, the "forgiveness" theme appears at a much higher rate in the Koran than in the Bible. Indeed, it rarely shows up in the Bible.

Based on the available evidence, can we reasonably deduce that Allah is more forgiving than the Judeo-Christian G-d? Can we deduce that Islam is the religion of forgiveness?
 
Netti-Netti said:
The term "forgiveness" appears 64 times in the Koran. In the Bible, the term appears only 15 times.

The Bible has over 31,000 verses. The Koran is much shorter, with just over only 6300 verses.

I calculated a density estimate for the forgiveness theme:

  • The Bible: .0005
  • The Koran: .01

Relative to the total number of verses, the "forgiveness" theme appears at a much higher rate in the Koran than in the Bible. Indeed, it rarely shows up in the Bible.

Based on the available evidence, can we reasonably deduce that Allah is more forgiving than the Judeo-Christian G-d? Can we deduce that Islam is the religion of forgiveness?
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{Ahem...}
There are several different words used in the bible that are translated as "forgive" in some instances, but are translated as words like "pardon" or "deliver," or "liberty" in other instances.
Blue Letter Bible - Language Tools
Strongs # Hb/Gk Word Pronunciation English Equivalent
Old Testament (Hebrew)

H3722 kaphar kä·far' atonement, purge, reconciliation, reconcile, forgive, purge away, pacify, atonement...made, merciful, cleansed, disannulled, appease, put off, pardon, pitch

H5375 nasa' nä·sä' (bare, lift, etc...) up, bear, take, bare, carry, (take, carry)..away, borne, armourbearer, forgive, accept, exalt, regard, obtained, respect

H5545 calach sä·lakh' forgive, forgiven, pardon, spare

H5546 callach sä·läkh' ready to forgive

H5547 cĕliychah sel·ē·khä' forgiveness, pardon

New Testament (Greek)

G859 aphesis ä'-fe-sēs remission, forgiveness, deliverance, liberty

G863 aphiēmi ä-fē'-ā-mē leave, forgive, suffer, let, forsake, let alone, misc

G5483 charizomai khä-rē'-zo-mī forgive, give, freely give, deliver, grant, frankly forgive

​
Appearances in Bible:

kaphar: 102 times
nasa': 654 times
calach: 46 times
callach: 1 time
cĕliychah: 3 times
aphesis: 17 times
aphiēmi: 146 times
charizomai: 23 times
_________________
Total 992 times
 
Dream said:
To change this you would have to overlook aspects of the Q'uran and maybe much Church Tradition. Fundamentalism -- the direct reading & personal interpretation of Scripture -- would have to go out through the window. I fail to see how fundamentalists of Islam & Christianity could share the same God.
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Most of these personal interpretations come from following the interpretations of other people that were handed down to them. You know, I ran into a fundamentalist Christian group just recently. It was a group of two men holding signs on my college campus last week. In fact one of the signs had a list of BFL's (Big Fat Lies). Muslims were listed as being condemed by God to the lake of fire. With that in mind, I never had the chance to ask them what scriptures they are going by; I needed to get to class. To take a quick shot at it, I suppose it would be that Jesus said, "I am the truth." Truth here is a person, and that person is God. Sorry, Mee!! I'm going with this interpretation of Christianity. Again, in my opinion, this is why the Christian and Muslim God would be considered different. Because their God says so, Christians accept the incarnation and Muslims reject it (John 1:14; Koran 112: 1-4). I know this is why most Christians in the church's I have been in would not raise their hands. From the Baha'i perspective, they are seen as mirrors saying, "the Sun is in me" and the other as saying, "I am the reflection of the Sun." That is why I ask, why can't both be correct? Of course this is my own personal interpretation handed down to me from Abdul-Baha.

Wil said:

What I'm getting at is that if I were to look at Elohim, and Jehova, and the representation of G!d in various books of the bible by the way the prophets or people portrayed G!d, it could easily be said their are various views of G!d. Interestingly enough, in the Quran we are looking at one author/prophet's understanding, instead of many.
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Exactly! This is what makes me think of the language being used. People of different languages would have a different perspective of God. Of course we can translate their thoughts now from aramaic, arabic, or whatever language they used, but how about ancient people with click languages, for example? Wil, right now I'm thinking their representation of God would be limited to their verbal expressions of that Reality . . .

If they are two Gods, how do these two Gods speak to Christians and Muslims? If it is just one God, I would propose the same question. Is it through a string of sounds that God speaks in the same language as the speaker, like Muhammad or Jesus, or through the Messenger's experience that Jesus or Muhammad paint with their tongue what God is saying or maybe there is some other connection? Maybe that can be a big difference. I know some medieval Christians had visions of Jesus, and then had a verbal dialogue with their Savior. According to these medieval Christians, Jesus must of had the same experience.
 
seattlegal said:
Appearances in Bible:

kaphar: 102 times
nasa': 654 times
calach: 46 times
callach: 1 time
cĕliychah: 3 times
aphesis: 17 times
aphiēmi: 146 times
charizomai: 23 times
_________________
Total 992 times
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Which of these are G-d's action in the way of forgiveness of sins?

And which are actually translated as "forgiveness," so that they'd be picked up in a word search?
 
Netti-Netti said:
Which of these are G-d's action in the way of forgiveness of sins?

And which are actually translated as "forgiveness," so that they'd be picked up in a word search?
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In the Christian paradigm, we humans are to forgive (a verb) each other as part of our worship. (Check the Lord's Prayer for one example in how God works with us in the matter of forgiveness.)
 
wil said:
Namaste FS,

Can you elaborate? What are the differences. What I'm getting at is that if I were to look at Elohim, and Jehova, and the representation of G!d in various books of the bible by the way the prophets or people portrayed G!d, it could easily be said their are various views of G!d. Interestingly enough, in the Quran we are looking at one author/prophet's understanding, instead of many.

But I'd love to see which Quranic verses on G!d you object to and how they are different than biblical scripture.
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  1. If your good deeds exceed your bad deeds, and you believe in Allah, and sincerely repent of sins, you may go to heaven (3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47; 49:14; 66:8-9).
  2. There is an eternal hell for those who are not Muslims, not practicing and of the truth faith (3:77).
  3. There is a tree in hell, named Tree of Zaqqum, from which bad fruit is given and the damned are forced to eat (37:62-67; 44:43-48; 56:52-55).
  4. Heaven (Paradise), a Garden (79:41) of bliss and fruit (69:21-24), has rivers (3:198), with maidens pure and holy (4:57), and carpets and cushions, (88:8-16).
  5. The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel (2:97; 16:102).
    1. There is no actual verse where the Holy Spirit is said to be Gabriel or is identified as Gabriel. These verses show that both the Holy Spirit and Gabriel brought down the revelation.
  6. Jinn are unseen beings, created (51:56) from fire (15:27; 55:15), but are not angels. They have communities. There are good and bad Jinn.
  7. Jesus was a great prophet but not the son of God (9:30), is not divine (5:17, 75), was not crucified (4:157).
  8. Muhammad is Allahï's greatest and last prophet and his message supercedes all other past prophets including Jesus.
  9. The Koran is Allahï's word. He literally spoke it to Gabriel who gave it to Muhammad.
  10. There is no last minute repentance (4:18).
Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an


Trinitarian, (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6-8; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14)
Monotheistic (5:73; 112:1-4), denies the Trinity (5:73).

Jesus is God in flesh (Col. 2:9)
Jesus is not God, (5:17, 75)

Jesus was crucified (1 Pet. 2:24).
Jesus was not Crucified, (4:157).

Jesus rose from the dead (John 2:19-20).
Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Jesus was the Son of God (Mark 1:1).
Jesus was not the Son of God ( 9:30)

Holy Spirit, 3rd person in the Godhead. He will bear witness of Jesus (John 14:26; 15:26).
The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel (2:97; 16:102).

Salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:89).
Salvation by sincerity and works (3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47; 49:14; 66:8-9).

The Devil is a fallen angel (Isaiah 14:12-15).T
he Devil, Satan, is not a fallen angel, but a fallen Jinn (2:34; 7:12; 15:27; 55:15).

Man is fallen, a sinner (Rom. 3:23).
Man is basically good.

Disciples were Christians (Acts 11:26).
Disciples declare themselves Muslims, (5:111).

Worship on Sabbath (Exodus 20) then later on Sunday (Rom. 14:5-6; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2).
Worship on Friday (62:9).

Miracles, numerous are recorded.
No Miracles recorded, except they claim the Qur'an is a miracle.

Makes numerous prophecies
Makes no prophecies.
 
As a buddhist I acknowledge the presence of Paramita, an endless, formless field of wisdom and compassion.

Christians call it God.

Muslims call it Allah.

It's all the same thing, just seen through different cultural lenses.

How can it be anything but that?
 
seattlegal said:
In the Christian paradigm, we humans are to forgive (a verb) each other as part of our worship.
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Forgiveness is a part of how we experience love, for sure.

In topical search for the Bible, the verb "forgive" showed up 31 times. I found almost twice as many in the Koran, which is much shorter than the Bible.

Density estimates:

  • Bible: .001
  • The Koran: .01
Obviously the incidence of the verb "forgive" is much higher in the Koran.

​
 
Netti-Netti said:
Forgiveness is a part of how we experience love, for sure.

In topical search for the Bible, the verb "forgive" showed up 31 times. I found almost twice as many in the Koran, which is much shorter than the Bible.

Density estimates:

  • Bible: .001
  • The Koran: .01
Obviously the incidence of the verb "forgive" is much higher in the Koran.

​
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:confused: I got 43 verses in just the four Gospels alone!
BibleGateway.com - KeywordSearch: forgive
 
Namaste FS,

Were you so diligent or simply learning from mee? Can you provide the link you cut and pasted from?

Now please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But I was not intimating nor is the OP or thread title that Christianity and the Islam or the Bible and the Quran represent differing belief systems, and have differing methodologies.
Originally Posted by Faithfulservant
The God of the Bible is Not the god of the Q'uran

Completely different on all levels...
Click to expand...
wil said:
Namaste FS,

Can you elaborate? What are the differences.
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And maybe I wasn't clear. But what I was wondering regarding your statement is what you saw as the differences between the representation of G!d in the bible and Allah in the Quran.

It always seems to me language is a barrier and each prophet and author is controlled by their abilities to elucidate the information they received from G!d.
 
seattlegal said:
{Ahem...}
There are several different words used in the bible that are translated as "forgive" in some instances, but are translated as words like "pardon" or "deliver," or "liberty" in other instances.
Blue Letter Bible - Language Tools
Strongs # Hb/Gk Word Pronunciation English Equivalent
Old Testament (Hebrew)

H3722 kaphar kä·far' atonement, purge, reconciliation, reconcile, forgive, purge away, pacify, atonement...made, merciful, cleansed, disannulled, appease, put off, pardon, pitch

H5375 nasa' nä·sä' (bare, lift, etc...) up, bear, take, bare, carry, (take, carry)..away, borne, armourbearer, forgive, accept, exalt, regard, obtained, respect

H5545 calach sä·lakh' forgive, forgiven, pardon, spare

H5546 callach sä·läkh' ready to forgive

H5547 cĕliychah sel·ē·khä' forgiveness, pardon

New Testament (Greek)

G859 aphesis ä'-fe-sēs remission, forgiveness, deliverance, liberty

G863 aphiēmi ä-fē'-ā-mē leave, forgive, suffer, let, forsake, let alone, misc

G5483 charizomai khä-rē'-zo-mī forgive, give, freely give, deliver, grant, frankly forgive

​
Appearances in Bible:

kaphar: 102 times
nasa': 654 times
calach: 46 times
callach: 1 time
cĕliychah: 3 times
aphesis: 17 times
aphiēmi: 146 times
charizomai: 23 times
_________________
Total 992 times
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I am not exactly an expert of Hebrew, but as far as my knowledge of Arabic goes, Kaphar means hide (famous Arabic word from this root is Kafir), Nasa probably means forget, & salaha most probably means peace/piety.

From the link you gave, Kaphar definitely means to hide . Nasa means lift, & calach (& derivatives) are the only one that seem to mean pardon.
 
Number of times forgiveness of sins is mentioned? These comparisons do not make the religions compatible. In peacetime they are at peace, and in wartime they are at war. In peacetime they talk peace, and at wartime they draft soldiers for governments.

Ahanu said:
Again, in my opinion, this is why the Christian and Muslim God would be considered different. Because their God says so, Christians accept the incarnation and Muslims reject it (John 1:14; Koran 112: 1-4). I know this is why most Christians in the church's I have been in would not raise their hands. From the Baha'i perspective, they are seen as mirrors saying, "the Sun is in me" and the other as saying, "I am the reflection of the Sun." That is why I ask, why can't both be correct? Of course this is my own personal interpretation handed down to me from Abdul-Baha.
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I think that Abdul-Baha has put you Baha'i in a bit of a tight spot.
 
Dream said:
Number of times forgiveness of sins is mentioned? These comparisons do not make the religions compatible. In peacetime they are at peace, and in wartime they are at war. In peacetime they talk peace, and at wartime they draft soldiers for governments.
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See!! Another similarity!
 
wil said:
Namaste FS,

Were you so diligent or simply learning from mee? Can you provide the link you cut and pasted from?

Now please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But I was not intimating nor is the OP or thread title that Christianity and the Islam or the Bible and the Quran represent differing belief systems, and have differing methodologies.
And maybe I wasn't clear. But what I was wondering regarding your statement is what you saw as the differences between the representation of G!d in the bible and Allah in the Quran.

It always seems to me language is a barrier and each prophet and author is controlled by their abilities to elucidate the information they received from G!d.
Click to expand...

sure www.carm.org

Ive said MANY times that I belive that they are not the same and I just posted the scriptures why. I have no personal feelings for or against Allah because he has nothing to do with me or my beliefs or anything to do with my life... so for you to ask me how they are represented differently is something I dont care about which is why you didnt and probably wont get a response to that part of your post. So culture or language or whatever. the Koran denies that Jesus Christ was the second part of the trinity... it denies that He died on the cross and rose again and is Alive and is the ONLY means of Salvation.. so thats ALL that matters to this little fundamentalist believing Christian. Happy?

I know that you have problems with these things also which is probably why you dont get me or anything I say.. but its so simple..I am so simple... Jesus Christ is my Lord and He IS my salvation.

Now my question to you is why have you been challenging every recent post I make about my faith lately?? Are you bored? Do you think Im easy pickings? Do you not respect that I know my stuff? Trust me... I know my stuff. Its beginning to feel personal, wil.
 
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