Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

[citizenzen]

Ive said MANY times that I belive that they are not the same and I just posted the scriptures why.

People, people, people!

Think about what you're saying! If they are not the same God, and there is only one God, then you are saying that between 700 million to 1.5 billion people in the world believe in a false god.

Is this REALLY what you believe?

 

[Bandit]

i dont understand what the big deal is with there being different gods and why people push the issue of their god being the only god and is everyone elses god. the bible talks about different gods. there are different bibles that talk about other gods. Different religions have different gods. I used to believe that everyone had the same god but this forum convinced me that there are many different gods and not everyone has the same god. Even those who demand the title christian have different gods.

you have this god who blinds people:
*Cor. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

and these gods that some jews have:
*29:18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
*Deut29:26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

Talk about a bias.

the jewish gods, the various trinity gods, the jesus only god, the muslim gods or the hindu god, the moon god, the sun god, the pagan gods, the bahai god... they are all different and strange gods to me and are not the same god I am familiar with. There were people who sought after paul as the godman from jupiter... The catholic jesus and catholic mary are not the same jesus and mary that I am familiar with. that mary is the mother of god while my god has no mother.
There may be thousands of gods and not everyone has the same god so suck that!.... and jimmy cracked corn and I dont care.

 

[Faithfulservant]

People, people, people!

Think about what you're saying! If they are not the same God, and there is only one God, then you are saying that between 700 million to 1.5 billion people in the world believe in a false god.

Is this REALLY what you believe?

I believe what the bible says that the path to salvation is narrow and the road to destruction is broad.

 

[citizenzen]

So all those muslim people, praying to God, communicating with Him, experiencing His love, finding strength through Him to surmount distress and illness, being guided by His wisdom to help make the world a better place, are all deluded?!

I am speechless...

for now.

 

[Netti-Netti]

These comparisons do not make the religions compatible. In peacetime they are at peace, and in wartime they are at war. In peacetime they talk peace, and at wartime they draft soldiers for governments.

There was a recent study (cited in PubMed) that showed that all religions under consideration are actually very similar in terms of major profile traits:

• Average Pulse: 65-70 BPM
• Average Blood Pressure: 122/84

All religions were ambulatory and observed walking around on two feet. None were seen walking on all fours.

The Muslim religions generally had a better tan, especially the ones from Africa. A side-effect of reading the Koran?

There was a segment in one or the other religions that tended to engage in a peculiar self-centered My-Culture-and-my-G-d's-Better-than-Yours routine. The good news is that overall the religions were equally likely to call for an end to stupidity (e.g., self-righteousness and religious exclusivism).

 

[Dream]

I believe what the bible says that the path to salvation is narrow and the road to destruction is broad.

Faithfulservant does not claim to have explanations for everything, so what she said doesn't necessarily imply all that stuff about Muslims. Actually this quotation is applicable in more ways than one: There is probably a very narrow path and gate towards making any progress in this thread, while there is a broad path and wide gate leading towards its destruction.

@ Netti
I like your positive attitude, just do not think you can pull this off. Good points all. -- yet the fundamental documents appear to be exclusive. Fundamental documents are where everyone with any deep questions eventually goes. They go looking for the foundations, and then they become fundamentalists.

 

[Netti-Netti]

There is probably a very narrow path and gate towards making any progress in this thread, while there is a broad path and wide gate leading towards its destruction.

Why would anyone expect any progress for a discussion in the absence of any facts?

 

[Dream]

Why would anyone expect any progress for a discussion in the absence of any facts?

Everybody would have to agree on the goals of the discussion first. A forum is a lot like a court proceeding, but it is informal. The goals appear to change almost post by post, so you have to impose goals by your posts. It is like a guitarist who can keep the rhythm without a drummer. I have seen you do this Netti, when you post using logical arguments demanding facts, etc. Of course, your sound can be drowned out if nobody else is interested in the same goals. Broad is that path.
Dialogue Goals

• Information - clarifying positions and problems
• Compromise - a mutual problem forces a mutual acceptance of some losses to solve the problem
• Confirmation - just friendly talk among folk that are in agreement
• Agreement - Mutual problem requires only cooperation not compromise.
• add your own goal here

 

[soleil10]

Islamic God is almost exactly similar to the Judaic God (The only difference being the special status of a particular tribe). Christianity on the other hand developed a new concept of "non-judgmental God" who only loves. This is something that needs to be analyzed philosophically & also historically.

Some religions instruct in social ethics and morality and others teach about the infinite spirit world. However,Chrsitianity combines teachings on ethics and morality with those that describe the incorporeal world, uniting them upon the essential core of one heart. Christianity is a religion of heart. Through the Fall, human beings lost God and forgot that God is our Father. We lost our substantial original Parents. Christianity is the religion that reintroduce them.

Since sinfulness was nailed to the cross (In the form of God's son that was man too), so was the law, since law got nailed, so there is no judgment. God (Kind of) sacrificed himself, so whats left there to judge?

That is not my belief. Jesus came to be accepted and received. He was rejected and crucified. His victory on the cross is spiritual. Satan took his body but Jesus was totally victorious spiritually. He opened a new spiritual level for humanity.

But as Quran says "did God send you a proof for that?" What exactly is a loving-but-not-judging-God? Are we humans that perfect that we don't need a judge? What about the mass-murderers, rapists & looters....no judgment ? Is there any justice?

Our actions judge us. We are responsible for our sins. There are so many points to discuss about your comment, I can only cover them superficially.

True Love is higher than justice. It was not justice for Jesus to be crucified. By overcoming unrighteousness in loving his enemies and humankind Jesus brought victory.

In the concept of justice, every one is a victim walking around with an historical calculator. There can never be peace. Only greater love can win over injustice. Satan cannot go there in that place of love. He has no choice but surrender.

In Islam he judges, & yet his compassion/mercy is more that his justice. Humans are supposed to cleanse themselves, & for that they are rewarded.

Yes, we have to clean our mind, our spirit and dominate our body. We need to repent for our wrong doings, ask for forgiveness and no do it again

Essentially, we are all slaves/servants to him (If you don't believe me, try to escape his dominion), but then the are people from his slaves who earn the respect of becoming his friends. This is the same concept the OT labels as God's sons. Hindus call it God's bride. Trinitarian Christianity took a different trajectory of evolution, mainly after it went into Europe.

We are slave to our sin not to God. From Allah's point of view, we are his children who have fell away from him. God is in great pain over this and wants to bring us back to him

We can progress from servant of servant all the way to adopted sons and daughters and finally to be his true children. Xstianity speaks of God as our parent in heaven.

The concept of the human fall and reversing our fallen nature is deeply engraved in Xstianity.

Salam Alaikum

 

[citizenzen]

Different cultures create different religions.

But the source of inspiration for these different religions is the same one.

It doesn't matter if you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist, how profound it is to come into communion with God, how life-changing the moment.

In every culture, in every corner of the Earth, there are people who live inspired lives.

The gate is wide open.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Broad is that path

Indeed. But in the end, it has to be narrowed down if any specific questions are to be answered.

It is not uncommon to see a Muslim suggest to a nonMuslim that they might want to learn Arabic before commenting on the Koran or on Islam. In this discussion, you have not made any observations about what the Koran says in connection with your conclusions about Islam and its place within the Abrahamic scheme of things, let alone comments you could justify based on a consideration of the original Arabic.

My searches on the incidence of certain words or expressions in the Koran are just as suspect for the same reason. Alas, I don't know Arabic and I've noticed that the translations of the Koran can vary and make a big difference in meaning. Even if there is no closure, at least I will have made a good faith effort to gather some relevant facts and to avoid embarrassingly broad generalizations with no support for any of them.

I have seen you do this Netti, when you post using logical arguments demanding facts, etc.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that facts and specificity about a religion are irrelevant to an understanding of the religion? So it seems....

Post #9: "Muslims cannot accept Christianity." You also suggest that Christians can't accept Islam. These are unsubstantiated claims.

Post #12: "You say the same God has given both revelation, and I don't agree." No explanation given for why you don't agree.

Post #17: "I think Protestants are not that different from the RC. I think that they are both very different from Islam." No explanation given as to why you think they're "very different."

Post #17: "Protestants (and probably Catholics) and Muslims teach about God so very differently that they really are describing two different things." No specification of what it is they teach and no basis referenced.

Poast #24: "These two religions, however, insist that you can only experience that 'Gravity' from one location." Unclear and unsubstantiated.
​

A forum is a lot like a court proceeding, but it is informal.

If you feel that way, then you'd prolly appreciate that the courts will tell you that you have no case if you have no evidence.

Fundamental documents are where everyone with any deep questions eventually goes. They go looking for the foundations, and then they become fundamentalists.

Are you suggesting we avoid becoming "fundamentalists" by ignoring the fundamental documents entirely?

If I'm understanding you, the upshot here is that you feel this here Religion, Faith, and Theology part of the forum is for people who are scrupulously free of "fundamentalism" by including no fundamental information when they talk about various religions. Is that about right?

You said a forum is a lot like a court proceeding. So how is the approach you are apparently endorsing different from maintaining that you have all the case law you need with regard to the case at hand when in fact you don't have a single legal precedent at your disposal?

 

[mee]

the bible talks about different gods.



true the bible does talk about the many Gods that are worshiped , but the bible also make known who the MOST HIGH GOD is psalm 83;18

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
psalm 83;18​

 

[mee]

I believe what the bible says that the path to salvation is narrow and the road to destruction is broad.

very true indeed.

 

[Dream]

Post #9: "Muslims cannot accept Christianity." You also suggest that Christians can't accept Islam. These are unsubstantiated claims.

Post #12: "You say the same God has given both revelation, and I don't agree." No explanation given for why you don't agree.

Post #17: "I think Protestants are not that different from the RC. I think that they are both very different from Islam." No explanation given as to why you think they're "very different."

Post #17: "Protestants (and probably Catholics) and Muslims teach about God so very differently that they really are describing two different things." No specification of what it is they teach and no basis referenced.

Poast #24: "These two religions, however, insist that you can only experience that 'Gravity' from one location." Unclear and unsubstantiated.

Sorry, I did not mean to be sloppy. I appreciate your highlight of these.

• Post 9 -- Islam intends to convert Christians, not to accept Christianity. Similarly, Christianity intends to convert.
• Post #12: Logical impossibility. Both religions claim founding by the Holy One, yet conversion is accomplished through war. Both religions talk about peace. Additionally, both religions have called for soldiers to fight in wars that they have lost. Against each other.
• Post #17: Faithfulservant's post laid out some basic differences. Islam lists criticisms of Christianity, especially disagreeing about God's relationship with humanity. That relationship is the only way Christians have of describing God. Secondly, Islam teaches Christianity uses corrupted Scriptures. Christianity teaches that Islam was invented by Muhammad. Christianity teaches about God. Islam teaches about Allah. This appropriately recognizes the difference between the two.
• Post #24: This was in answer to Citizenzen's question about there being one or more Gods. It was necessary to say only one overall 'One God' is possible. I imposed that two infinite powers would be perceived by us as one, but you did not object to that. I used gravity to represent this, because it is the accumulation of gravitational force upon a single point from all directions. I compared God to gravity, and the Christian 'position' as being different from the Muslim 'position', since things have a different weight from here to there. Each religion has made clear that the other does not represent God or Allah. It is appropriate to say they only believe you can experience Gravity from one (their) location. I did not invent gravity, nor did I make this situation look ridiculous. It just is.

 

[wil]

i dont understand what the big deal is with there being different gods and why people push the issue of their god being the only god and is everyone elses god. the bible talks about different gods. there are different bibles that talk about other gods. Different religions have different gods. I used to believe that everyone had the same god but this forum convinced me that there are many different gods and not everyone has the same god. Even those who demand the title christian have different gods.....

Talk about a bias.

the jewish gods, the various trinity gods, the jesus only god, the muslim gods or the hindu god, the moon god, the sun god, the pagan gods, the bahai god... they are all different and strange gods to me and are not the same god I am familiar with. There were people who sought after paul as the godman from jupiter... The catholic jesus and catholic mary are not the same jesus and mary that I am familiar with. that mary is the mother of god while my god has no mother.
There may be thousands of gods and not everyone has the same god so suck that!.... and jimmy cracked corn and I dont care.

Namaste to Bandit and Jimmy whilst he's cracking corn!

One of my moments I'll never forget is picking up a Hindu Priest to bring him to an ecumenical service at our church on of all days Sept 11, 2001, it was a great service with 9 of the 12 religions we invited sending a representative and on cue without prompting they all spoke beautifully about peace, understanding and forgiveness during challenging times...planned for months this service was less than 12 hours after the towers fell.

But beyond that, I'd always assumed the various hindu G!ds were different. This priest set me straight. He explained that to his mother he is a son, to his neice an uncle, to his brother a brother and to his son a dad...each has a different frame of reference, a different understanding, a different relationship, a different name for him and sees him differently, yet it is all him. He told me that in his mind Allah, Krishna, G!d are all one, as all the G!ds of Hinduism are different aspects of the same G!d seen in different situations. This actually helped me grasp the trinity concept a little tighter and also fermented my understanding of what other gods are.

IMO, other gods are Futbol, NFL, food, lust, greed, money, anything that takes our allegiance away from the almighty spirit, whatever we call it.

There was a recent study (cited in PubMed) that showed that all religions under consideration are actually very similar in terms of major profile traits:

• Average Pulse: 65-70 BPM
• Average Blood Pressure: 122/84

All religions were ambulatory and observed walking around on two feet. None were seen walking on all fours.

The Muslim religions generally had a better tan, especially the ones from Africa. A side-effect of reading the Koran?

There was a segment in one or the other religions that tended to engage in a peculiar self-centered My-Culture-and-my-G-d's-Better-than-Yours routine. The good news is that overall the religions were equally likely to call for an end to stupidity (e.g., self-righteousness and religious exclusivism).

Now that is casting the netti on the righteous side of the boat!!

 

[Netti-Netti]

Sorry, I did not mean to be sloppy. I appreciate your highlight of these.

• Post 9 -- Islam intends to convert Christians, not to accept Christianity. Similarly, Christianity intends to convert.
• Post #12: Logical impossibility. Both religions claim founding by the Holy One, yet conversion is accomplished through war. Both religions talk about peace. Additionally, both religions have called for soldiers to fight in wars that they have lost. Against each other.
• Post #17: Faithfulservant's post laid out some basic differences. Islam lists criticisms of Christianity, especially disagreeing about God's relationship with humanity. That relationship is the only way Christians have of describing God. Secondly, Islam teaches Christianity uses corrupted Scriptures. Christianity teaches that Islam was invented by Muhammad. Christianity teaches about God. Islam teaches about Allah. This appropriately recognizes the difference between the two.
• Post #24: This was in answer to Citizenzen's question about there being one or more Gods. It was necessary to say only one overall 'One God' is possible. I imposed that two infinite powers would be perceived by us as one, but you did not object to that. I used gravity to represent this, because it is the accumulation of gravitational force upon a single point from all directions. I compared God to gravity, and the Christian 'position' as being different from the Muslim 'position', since things have a different weight from here to there. Each religion has made clear that the other does not represent God or Allah. It is appropriate to say they only believe you can experience Gravity from one (their) location. I did not invent gravity, nor did I make this situation look ridiculous. It just is.

Where's the beef?

Thank you for explaining your previous posts. Unfortunately, this does not support the contention that the Christian 'position' is sufficiently different from the Muslim 'position' to where they should be considered "incompatible" (your term).

Contradictions in the historical expressions of faith do not necessarily reflect on a religion. But if you're interested in history, maybe check out this list of books that allegedly show that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have coexisted for centuries:
Amazon.com: "Islam, Judaism, and Christianity"

 

[Dream]

Contradictions in the historical expressions of faith do not necessarily reflect on a religion. But if you're interested in history, maybe check out this list of books that allegedly show that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have coexisted for centuries:

If historic expressions of faith do not necessarily reflect upon religion, than what does? Why would you recommend reading their history? Perhaps I would make more progress doing statistical analysis of which religion most uses the word 'Butterfly'?

Are you suggesting we avoid becoming "fundamentalists" by ignoring the fundamental documents entirely?

If I'm understanding you, the upshot here is that you feel this here Religion, Faith, and Theology part of the forum is for people who are scrupulously free of "fundamentalism" by including no fundamental information when they talk about various religions. Is that about right?

No, I did not mean to mislead. Instead of ignoring the fundamental documents, I recommend inspecting them and accepting the incongruities. It makes sense to me that some problems have no solution. Comparative theology between Christianity and Islam is a problem with no solution. Instead of ignoring the fundamentals absorb them, and we can experience together the sorrow that there is no solution. Then our common enemy, sorrow, unites us. The problem with no solution then becomes the solution. That is the straight and difficult path.

You said a forum is a lot like a court proceeding. So how is the approach you are apparently endorsing different from maintaining that you have all the case law you need with regard to the case at hand when in fact you don't have a single legal precedent at your disposal?

I abhor legal precedent, because it is the corruption of justice. Instead, let the jury respect the law, the only legal precedent, recognizing that pure justice is not possible in a human court. Similarly in a forum we have to assume some things. If there is something you want clarified, just say what it is.

 

[citizenzen]

Post #12: "You say the same God has given both revelation, and I don't agree." No explanation given for why you don't agree.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Muslims are a devout people. They don't built incredible mosques, journey on pilgrimages or pray multiple times a day to experience nothing.

Muslims are seeking and finding. For those who knock the door shall be opened.

The rest you'll have to take on faith.

 

[Dream]

It is not uncommon to see a Muslim suggest to a nonMuslim that they might want to learn Arabic before commenting on the Koran or on Islam. In this discussion, you have not made any observations about what the Koran says in connection with your conclusions about Islam and its place within the Abrahamic scheme of things, let alone comments you could justify based on a consideration of the original Arabic.

I could only cut & paste things. So I have to learn the original languages? You may as well demand that I learn 7 languages before approaching the subject. I don't have to learn languages to convert, so why should I have to learn them to discuss? This is the same as requiring people to be lawyers before they can expect justice.

 

[Bandit]

If historic expressions of faith do not necessarily reflect upon religion, than what does? Why would you recommend reading their history? Perhaps I would make more progress doing statistical analysis of which religion most uses the word 'Butterfly'?

No, I did not mean to mislead. Instead of ignoring the fundamental documents, I recommend inspecting them and accepting the incongruities. It makes sense to me that some problems have no solution. Comparative theology between Christianity and Islam is a problem with no solution. Instead of ignoring the fundamentals absorb them, and we can experience together the sorrow that there is no solution. Then our common enemy, sorrow, unites us. The problem with no solution then becomes the solution. That is the straight and difficult path.

I abhor legal precedent, because it is the corruption of justice. Instead, let the jury respect the law, the only legal precedent, recognizing that pure justice is not possible in a human court. Similarly in a forum we have to assume some things. If there is something you want clarified, just say what it is.

Hey Dream. I am in agreement with you. This is one of those things where there is no solution and people will suffer because of it. I have a lot of respect for intellectual honesty. Some religions might be compatible but the 3 in question have never been. Christians are silenced and beheaded in the Islam world like Iran. About the time a christian starts testifying in a jewish temple about their messiah named Jesus, they will also be silenced and thrown out. And we have 1800 years of roman catholics looking down at everyone and making wars while damning everyone to hell who is not a catholic. Interfaith puts up a facade that they all come from same thing but they don't. <ranting here> If they are the same then it is not pleasant or peaceful and that one god they all have is a very confused angry god. I have also experienced several distinct forces making war against each other, as well as you mentioned two spirits/forces appearing to be the same but they are not. Topics that ask a fair question with an unfair agenda have never been my favorite.

Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

and Wil and to Jimmy, I understand your position better than you may realize because that is exactly how I used to be. My personal experiences proved to me that there are many literal gods that are different from my god. Then people here and elsewhere have confirmed that for me and to me. It is not very often that I meet someone who has the same god that I do. Not a big deal to me that people have different gods, I just find it disrespectful when people try to shove there gods onto others, which is what this thread wants to do. So how about those Bears! They suck pretty bad again this year. Notre Dame is going to whip the pants off of USC and Michigan this year! I have free tickets for the white sox but would trade them to go see the cubs instead.