God's Plan

[Azure24]

Hi soleil...

Why true love requires free will ? That is pretty simple and self explanatory.
If someone is require to love us by force or not out of his or her free will, we will see it a genuine love. Trust will not be there.

EVERYONE'S LOVE for God will be GENUINE!!! We (not God) will CHOOSE to LOVE GOD. Yes!! EVERYONE!!!

I'm going to keep this short (lucky you) and sweet (I'll try...).

I try to explain what I was trying to say using the "thousands" of Scriptual quotes in a nutshell...

-->God causes us to LOVE-->
Because //////// Therefore
<--WE choose to LOVE <----

Look at the diagram (of sorts), now work clockwise (matching red with purple and the blue with green...

I did not choose my parents, the country where I was born. I did not choose my gender or my name.

Exactly, who did ?... Most Psychologists say a persons early life plays a major role in who they will be...But there 's more to it than that...

Still as I grew up, I became more and more free

"Free" from what exactly??

...and responsible of my actions. Responsibilities come with free will

I don't know about you, but if I had children and one of them got into drugs and crime and the likes... and ended up in jail. I would feel responsible for what they had done...Because I brought them up...

Is God not responsible for His children?

If I then, had been given the power to release my child from prison would I?

Of course I would...

...But what good is it if you do not then, teach them how to live their life well?

Will God not teach his OWN children?

"…for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)

...and freedom to choose.

That was some kind of joke right?? I would be a millionaire if I quoted the amount of times I said "free will" had nothing to do with choice...

...And then comes diagram two...

--> The Heart casues us to sin -->
Because//////////////Therefore
<------- We choose sin <--------

Why did God create man soleil??
God's motivation to create was love. God is love. God created man because and for love.

God created mankind because God wants children. What happens to children eventually? They resemble traits of their parents...

The fall of man was caused by the misuse of love.

The first sin was caused by the Heart.

Where is the Evil of man coming from?

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Mat. 15:19).

Who made man's Heart the way it is?

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope."(Rom. 8:20-22)

and again...

"Seeing that OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him is ALL..." (Rom. 11:36)(Concordant Version).

We could say both. Noah build the Ark to begin with...

No we can't say both, because who told him to bulid the Ark...

God's heart needs to be liberated.

If you've read all of my post up to here, you'll begin to see the irony in your quote...

Who really needs to be liberated?

"Because the creature [Gk: ‘creation’] itself also shall be delivered from THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious LIBERTY of the children of God."

"If the Son therefore shall make you FREE, ye shall be FREE indeed" (John 8:36).

If we have a will that is free from being something other than what God Himself has SUBJECTED us to, why doesn’t man just "free will" himself to NOT be subjected to futility and corruption? I’ll tell you why: Because the will of man is NOT FREE to do other things than what we are caused to do, and we have absolutely NO POWER OR AUTHORITY to do otherwise, independent of God’s will and God’s choices for him.

Finally, and closing... To dispell "free will" once and for all...

If Jesus was not meant to be crucified (as you say). Why is it that God GAVE POWER for Pilate to crucify Him???

"Then said Pilate unto Him, Speak you not unto me? Know you not that IHAVE POWER to crucify you, and have POWER TO RELEASE YOU? Jesus answered, You could have NO POWER AT ALL against Me, except it were GIVEN YOU from above…" (John 19:10-11).

 

[Azure24]

God's heart is still filled with pain. God did not wish for the fall. This is why he gave a commandment to A&E during their growth period.

Did Eve herself think that she "freely" willed to sin WITHOUT A CAUSE?

"And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that you have done? And the woman said [Yes, just what did ‘the woman say?’ Did she say that she "freely willed" to commit this sin? Did she say it was her and all her and nothing but her that did this? Or did she say…], The SERPENT BEGUILED ME… [and BECAUSE the serpent beguiled or deceived her, we now have a CAUSE], and I did eat" (Gen. 3:13).

And what did God have to save about all this blame casting on Eve’s part? Did God say something like this:

"Oh really, Eve? Yeah right, go ahead, try and blame it on THE SERPENT! No, Eve, you ‘FREELY’ willed by your own ‘FREE MORAL AGENCY’ which I gave to you and which is free from ALL CAUSALITY AND BLAME CASTING, to do this thing ON YOUR OWN."

Is that what God said? Let’s read it:

"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, because YOU HAVE DONE THIS, you are cursed above all cattle…" (Verse 14).

There it is. God’s Own answer. But will we accept God’s answer? For most, probably not.

How about Adam? Does he fair any better than his wife? Did Adam eat the forbidden fruit and sin by his OWN ‘FREE’ WILL? Or do the Scriptures tell us that he too was CAUSED to have his will do what he did?

"And the man said, THE WOMAN whom You gave to be with me, SHE GAVE ME OF THE TREE, and I did eat" (Ver. 12).

And again, did God say something like" "Oh sure, Adam, blame it on your WIFE! You know that you ‘freely’ without any outside cause whatsoever, decided on your own to eat the fruit." Is that what God intonated to Adam? Let’s read it:

"And unto Adam He said, Because [‘because’—here is the real CAUSE] YOU HAVE HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE, and have eaten of the tree …" (Ver. 17).

Does anyone see here where God says, "Because you have hearkened unto the voice of our OWN ‘FREE’ WILL, and have eaten of the tree…?" Well? No, before Adam "willed" (and NOT FREELY), but willed to eat of this fruit, his heart was influenced to do something that it already had all the potential in the world of doing. Namely, disobeying His God and Maker. And what was that? HIS WIFE’S VOICE. And at THAT point in the process, Adam began to "will" this act, and his mind formulated the actual physical action of doing the eating.

You see, Adam was willing to DIE for his new bride, just as Jesus was willing to DIE for His bride, the church.

God doesn’t even hint that Adam did what he did "freely." God Himself admits that the CAUSE was "the VOICE OF YOUR WIFE."

I have said and taught for a while now that God never FORCED anyone to sin or go against whatever their will is at the precise time that his will is changed by a cause. Men volunteer to sin. They don’t need to be "forced"—they are SINNING MACHINES! Most men (not all) can be made to sin at the drop of a photograph. (That is, if the photograph is that of a sexy young lady in high heels and a mini-skirt). He doesn’t need to be ‘FORCED’ to lust and sin over the young lady, even though it may not have been his conscious will TO LUST just prior to seeing the sexy photograph.

I asolutely agree with that

So, if you agree that...

"God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED..." (I Tim. 2:4).

And "Thy WILL BE DONE..." (Matt. 6:10).

"For God IS LOVE" (I John 4:8), and

"LOVE NEVER FAILS...." (I Cor. 13:10).

Why is it that you believe some (if not most) will go (or even have the potential to go) to this so called "Hell"!!

 

[mee]

“It is according to his good pleasure . . . to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.”—EPHESIANS 1:9, 10.


and that means universal peace


that is the glorious purpose of Jehovah, “the God of peace.” (Hebrews 13:20)


by means of his infinitely wise “administration,” or way of managing things, Jehovah will have fulfilled his purpose “to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.” All intelligent creatures in heaven and on earth will have been gathered together in universal peace, joyfully submitting to the righteous sovereignty of the Great Purposer, Jehovah.

 

[soleil10]

Did Eve herself think that she "freely" willed to sin WITHOUT A CAUSE?
"And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that you have done? And the woman said [Yes, just what did ‘the woman say?’ Did she say that she "freely willed" to commit this sin? Did she say it was her and all her and nothing but her that did this? Or did she say…], The SERPENT BEGUILED ME… [and BECAUSE the serpent beguiled or deceived her, we now have a CAUSE], and I did eat" (Gen. 3:13).
And what did God have to save about all this blame casting on Eve’s part? Did God say something like this:
"Oh really, Eve? Yeah right, go ahead, try and blame it on THE SERPENT! No, Eve, you ‘FREELY’ willed by your own ‘FREE MORAL AGENCY’ which I gave to you and which is free from ALL CAUSALITY AND BLAME CASTING, to do this thing ON YOUR OWN."
Is that what God said? Let’s read it:
"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, because YOU HAVE DONE THIS, you are cursed above all cattle…" (Verse 14).
There it is. God’s Own answer. But will we accept God’s answer? For most, probably not.
How about Adam? Does he fair any better than his wife? Did Adam eat the forbidden fruit and sin by his OWN ‘FREE’ WILL? Or do the Scriptures tell us that he too was CAUSED to have his will do what he did?
"And the man said, THE WOMAN whom You gave to be with me, SHE GAVE ME OF THE TREE, and I did eat" (Ver. 12).
And again, did God say something like" "Oh sure, Adam, blame it on your WIFE! You know that you ‘freely’ without any outside cause whatsoever, decided on your own to eat the fruit." Is that what God intonated to Adam? Let’s read it:
"And unto Adam He said, Because [‘because’—here is the real CAUSE] YOU HAVE HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE, and have eaten of the tree …" (Ver. 17).

God kicked out A&E from the Garden for what they did. One of the characteristic of the fallen nature is to blame everybody else for our own sins. Eve blamed the serpent and Adam blamed Eve. God blamed the 3 of them.

Does anyone see here where God says, "Because you have hearkened unto the voice of our OWN ‘FREE’ WILL, and have eaten of the tree…?" Well? No, before Adam "willed" (and NOT FREELY), but willed to eat of this fruit, his heart was influenced to do something that it already had all the potential in the world of doing. Namely, disobeying His God and Maker. And what was that? HIS WIFE’S VOICE. And at THAT point in the process, Adam began to "will" this act, and his mind formulated the actual physical action of doing the eating.

You see, Adam was willing to DIE for his new bride, just as Jesus was willing to DIE for His bride, the church.

Adam like Eve did not obey God commandement. He followed Eve that has become afraid. She felt guilt after she fell. Adam should have scolded her and still obey God

God doesn’t even hint that Adam did what he did "freely." God Himself admits that the CAUSE was "the VOICE OF YOUR WIFE."

I have said and taught for a while now that God never FORCED anyone to sin or go against whatever their will is at the precise time that his will is changed by a cause. Men volunteer to sin. They don’t need to be "forced"—they are SINNING MACHINES! Most men (not all) can be made to sin at the drop of a photograph. (That is, if the photograph is that of a sexy young lady in high heels and a mini-skirt). He doesn’t need to be ‘FORCED’ to lust and sin over the young lady, even though it may not have been his conscious will TO LUST just prior to seeing the sexy photograph.

Azure, you are turning Satan' fallen nature into a God intended natural nature for men and women. Satan is playing with you my brother.

So, if you agree that...
"God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED..." (I Tim. 2:4).
And "Thy WILL BE DONE..." (Matt. 6:10).
"For God IS LOVE" (I John 4:8), and
"LOVE NEVER FAILS...." (I Cor. 13:10).
Why is it that you believe some (if not most) will go (or even have the potential to go) to this so called "Hell"!!

Here again, all I see is another trap from the "liar" playing with your mind.

Here is what, he is saying to you."There is no fall. God is in control of everything. Sinning is really a learning experience, a needed suffering in order to learn. God will save you do not worry.He loves you" There is no hell (place separated from God). God created me, Satan. I am part of his creation. Evil was created by God."

Wow that is quite cleaver but very dangerous I have to say

 

[Azure24]

The Scriptures is God's word, so when we speak of God we must be...

"...Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION" (II Pet. 1:20).

and just how will we know that one does not use private interpretation?

Well, we must know...

"…that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).

Just to prove to you, what I write is true, I will use...

"...TWO OR THREE WITNESSES..."

God kicked out A&E from the Garden for what they did.

Just what is it that CAUSED Adam and Eve to sin, that made them leave the Garden??

Witness No. 1

"And the woman said The SERPENT BEGUILED ME… [and BECAUSE the serpent beguiled or deceived her, we now have a CAUSE], and I did eat" (Gen. 3:13).

Witness No. 2

"But I fear, lest by any means, AS the serpent BEGUILED [Gk: ‘DECEIVED’] Eve through HIS subtlety [craftiness]…" (II Cor. 11:3).

Witness No. 3

This is God's Word...

"And the LORD God COMMANDED the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

and what does Satan do?

“And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts” (Mark 4:15).

One of the characteristic of the fallen nature is to blame everybody else for our own sins.

Scripture? How many witnesses?

God blamed the 3 of them.

Scripture? How many witnesses?

and if you should then use "accounted" instead of "blame". What did God account them for?

Scripture? How many witnesses?

He followed Eve that has become afraid.

Scripture? How many witnesses?

She felt guilt after she fell. Adam should have scolded her and still obey God

Scripture? How many witnesses?

God created me, Satan. I am part of his creation.

Witness No. 1

"Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had MADE..." (Gen. 3:1)

Witness No. 2

"By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; his HAND [the very Hand of God] has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13).

Sinning is really a learning experience, a needed suffering in order to learn.

I never, ever said this...

The HEART is to suffer (this is what I said).

Why?

Witness No. 1

"The heart [of carnal unconverted mankind] is DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS, and DESPERATELY WICKED: who can know it" (Jer. 17:9).

Witness No. 2

"...You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the HEART the mouth speaks."

God will save you do not worry.

Witness No.1

"...we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL mankind, especially [but not exclusively] believers."(I Tim. 4:11)

Witness No. 2

"...those who are loving Him" will include ALL hummanity and all in the heavens"(Phil. 2:11)

There is no hell (place separated from God).

Now, this I cannot show...Hell doesn't even exist

Evil was created by God."

Witness No. 1

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:6-7).

Witness No. 2

“…shall there be EVIL [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)

Say what you say!! And show the witnesses!!!

 

[soleil10]

Just what is it that CAUSED Adam and Eve to sin, that made them leave the Garden??

They were chased out of he garden. God was angry with them. They were hiding from Him.

Witness No. 1
"And the woman said The SERPENT BEGUILED ME… [and BECAUSE the serpent beguiled or deceived her, we now have a CAUSE], and I did eat" (Gen. 3:13).
Witness No. 2
"But I fear, lest by any means, AS the serpent BEGUILED [Gk: ‘DECEIVED’] Eve through HIS subtlety [craftiness]…" (II Cor. 11:3).
Witness No. 3
This is God's Word...
"And the LORD God COMMANDED the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
and what does Satan do?
“And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts” (Mark 4:15).

What you say does not work for me because you end up in a battle of scriptures against scriptures, word against word and translation of each word against another translation.
This is what the Jewish scholars were doing with Jesus.
In addition, you have conflicting scriptures.
Some scriptures show Jesus being received as a lord of Glory, some project a lord of suffering. and reejction. Some scriptures support predestination, some the opposite. Your formula can be use both ways.

In addition, you cant just take a few words and unfinished sentences out of context across the bible without the possibility of manipulating them. That is another form of interpretation
Because of the benefit of the ages and who Jesus is, his words came from a higher spiritual place than during the old testament.

The ultimate taste is that the whole picture and the path of God in the bible comes out clearly otherwise, we are faced with serious contradiction.
Then it becomes a trap and self denial follows. As I said before, it is healthy to be able to question our own beliefs and chek if it really make sense to our soul.
Otherwise, we are submitting to somebody else belief without understanding.

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:6-7).

Witness No. 2
“…shall there be EVIL [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)[/quote]

Gen 1:31 God looked at what he had done. All of it was very good! Evening came and then morning--that 1was the sixth day.

Rev 12: 8-9 It and its angels were forced out of their places in heaven and were thrown down to the earth. Yes, that old snake and his angels were thrown out of heaven! That snake, who fools everyone on earth, is known as the devil and Satan.

These two verses state that all of God's creation was very good and that Original Satan (lucifer) was good and in heaven.

Some bible translate "make peace and create calamity". They do not use the word evil.

This is why, I stay away from "words' game. I respect other people understanding and do not force scriptures on them.

I want to know and understand the whole picture of the bible. All the pieces have to connect and make senses.
Some verses are more meaninful than others. If some put in question my understanding, it forces me to go deeper in my faith and may be go back on some previous understanding

 

[mee]

I want to know and understand the whole picture of the bible. All the pieces have to connect and make senses.
Some verses are more meaninful than others. If some put in question my understanding, it forces me to go deeper in my faith and may be go back on some previous understanding

JOHN 17;3 taking in knowledge about the true God Jehovah, and his son Jesus christ leads to everlasting life



and the bible is where it is , but he also has a visible channel on the earth and it is a faithful one.


and that channel is being fed good spiritual food from the hand of Jesus matthew 24;45-47
and we have to be humble enough to accept the food that those faithful ones are sharing out .


then we will have understanding indeed.
humility is what it is all about .
and then the jigsaw is fitting in very nice Yes jesus has a channel that he is feeding .



Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. matthew 24;45-47




yes that faithful channel has been appointed over all of Jesus belongings, and those belongings are all to do with the KINGDOM daniel 2;44

 

[Azure24]

They were chased out of he garden. God was angry with them. They were hiding from Him.

Again, just words...You might as well say the garden was actually in another planet and when they were "chase out" (so God chased them out now??) they actually got on a spaceship and traveled to Earth.

What you say does not work for me because you end up in a battle of scriptures against scriptures, word against word and translation of each word against another translation.

That's the whole point...This will NOT happen.

When something important is stated (and is true, mind you) it is always found somewhere else in the Scriptures (hence my witnesses).

This is what the Jewish scholars were doing with Jesus.

Jewish scholars, use only opinion...I do not.

In addition, you have conflicting scriptures.
Some scriptures show Jesus being received as a lord of Glory, some project a lord of suffering. and reejction. Some scriptures support predestination, some the opposite. Your formula can be use both ways.

Show me each verse, and I will give an explanation...

In addition, you cant just take a few words and unfinished sentences out of context across the bible without the possibility of manipulating them. That is another form of interpretation.

How can the Scriptures CLEARLY stating ALL humanity will be saved be out of context. How can God who is Almighty, Sovereign and our Saviour ever be unable the save ALL of his children. You once said I never onced used the word "love" in my posts. You will at least agree with me that Christ says love your enemies....But you soleil, I cannot seem to comprehend that God will save EVERYONE of his children even his supposed "enemies".

The ultimate taste is that the whole picture and the path of God in the bible comes out clearly otherwise, we are faced with serious contradiction.

It is an irony that you should say this, I have shown you CLEARLY every verse to back up everything I say, but this obviously isn't enough...

As I said before, it is healthy to be able to question our own beliefs and chek if it really make sense to our soul.
Otherwise, we are submitting to somebody else belief without understanding.

It's funny one would now say this, as you did not say this from the beginning. Our you saying you do not believe the Scriptures now??? Why do you believe what you believe?

The answer...Because you have been told things by people which has influenced [a cause, get it now] you into thinking a certain way...One does not simply develop their own opinion out of nothing....

I have shown you page after page of Scriptures (you even said so yourself), and yet you say so much and show so little Scripture...This is a FACT...God's word does not come easily (contrary to what people say). It takes effort to understand. Hence all the parables about the pearl of great price, hidden treasure in a field, etc.

READ the next post and you will see...

 

[Azure24]

Gen 1:31 God looked at what he had done. All of it was very good! Evening came and then morning--that 1was the sixth day.

Rev 12: 8-9 It and its angels were forced out of their places in heaven and were thrown down to the earth. Yes, that old snake and his angels were thrown out of heaven! That snake, who fools everyone on earth, is known as the devil and Satan.

If you do not understand the Scriptures why didn't you say...

The first quote I agree with, everything was "very good", but this does not mean that Satan was a "saint". This is from God's perspective, if you paint a picture and you like it, even if someone else doesn't. Then to you it is "very good"... Satan was also "very good" for his purpose...

The best part is the second quote!!!

Today soleil, you (and everyone else reading) will learn a spiritual truth!!

First, just who was it that fell from heaven, and does the phrase "fallen from heaven" prove that this person had to have been in God’s throne room, or at least in interstellar space in order for him to "fall from heaven" therefore proving that this must be a spirit being only? No, of course not. It is a figure of speech. Here is proof from none other than Jesus:

"And you, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down [from heaven] to hell [Gk: hades]" (Luke 10:15).

So here we have a whole city being thrown down from heaven to hades, their grave. And so it is with the King of Babylon whose "pomp is brought down to the grave" (Isa. 14:11).

But that's not all...

God's Heaven is HIGHER than man or Satan's Heaven, look and you will see...

Satan is the god of this world (II Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven (Tower of Bable). The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:

"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"

Do you see? He began to thing it was all his work...He began to thing HE was a god...

The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:

"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).

The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:

"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).

The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:

"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).

Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."

Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).

God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,

"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

Believe it or not but the same can be said for free-will...

If we achieve something, we think it was US not God...

WE can save ourselves...

WE are good...

WE were once like God (in the garden), and...

WE have the answers (in our own mind), not God...

Get out of your own Heaven...

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."

 

[Azure24]

Some bible translate "make peace and create calamity". They do not use the word evil.

I'm glad you said this...

Now then, how could some say such a think except that they LOOKED AT THE HEBREW WORD rendered evil and found proof that it would be better translated "calamity."

But this is not possible. Let me prove it to you.

Look up the word "calamity" in Strong's Concordance and you will find that calamity is found 19 times in the Bible, all in the Old Testament. Three times calamity is translated from the Hebrew word "havvah" and it means "ruin or calamity." Sixteen times calamity is translated from the Hebrew word "eyd" which is defined as "oppression, misfortune, ruin, calamity and destruction."

And here is an example of how it is used in Scripture: "I also will laugh at your CALAMITY" (Prov. 1:26). God is not going to "laugh at your EVIL."

Now then, what word did the Holy Spirit of God inspire to be used in Isa. 45:7? Was it "havvah" or "eyd" which really does mean "calamity?" NO. It was another word. And what word might that be? Well, it would be the word "ra" which means "bad or evil" and is translated "evil" FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY-TWO TIMES in the Old Testament!!

Here are just a few examples of how this word is used:

"And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of the life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL" (Or does anyone think it should be "the tree of knowledge of good and CALAMITY?" (Gen. 2:9).

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only EVIL continually" (Or does anyone think that God says, "...his heart was only CALAMITOUS continually?" (Gen. 6:5).

"Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some EVIL beast has devoured him..." (Or does anything that that they really said, "Some CALAMITOUS beast has devoured him...?" (Gen. 37:20).

Look up EVERY one of the 442 verses where "ra" is translated evil, and you will easily see the truth of this word. "Ra" never, EVER, means "calamity." So don't let these lying weasels deceive you into believing their deceitful and unscriptural heresy.

I want to know and understand the whole picture of the bible. All the pieces have to connect and make senses.
Some verses are more meaninful than others. If some put in question my understanding, it forces me to go deeper in my faith and may be go back on some previous understanding

Is this true?? Then take everything I have shown you on all my posts...read them in silence, meditate on them for a few hours and research all the words including these words above. Pray for God to give you an understanding. You will then start to see connections and you will come to realise the truth...The worst crime Christendom ever committed is "The Devils Doctrine" which changes God's Salvation from all to a few. The Gospel mean's Good news, then if the majority really do go to hell... how, HOW on earth can this be "Good News"!!!

 

[mee]

The Gospel mean's Good news, "!!!

very true indeed and it is the GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM MATTHEW 24;14and the goodnews about that kingdom is being made known , and it is putting people on notice about the GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM



THE GOODNEWS is that the heavenly kingdom was set up in 1914 in heaven DANIEL 2;44 and JESUS was given great aurthority
DANIEL 7;13-14


And he has recieved kingship from his father the ( ANCIENT OF DAYS) (the ancient of days is JEHOVAH) Yes JEHOVAH has given Jesus rulership, dignity ,and kingdom.


the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27)


The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33)


and he has been given it in 1914, inline with bible prophecy and chronology



and that is very GOODNEWS INDEED


how do we respond to that goodnews? in a positive way or in a negative way ?

 

[mee]

God's Plan,


Or even Gods purpose for the earth, is now well along ,and things are happening just as the bible foretold .



soon the earth will be back to paradise conditions, and then it will be VERY GOOD again


with no more sickness and no more death to spoil it all .

and no more people in opposition to Gods purpose, only those who are inline with Gods purpose will be left over on the earth .

And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.​

​

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.​

psalm 37;10-11

 

[Azure24]

...and he has been given it in 1914, inline with bible prophecy and chronology

Oh really???

 

[mee]

Oh really???

REALLYAnd that is the truth for sure , yes its all happening in this time of the end , the bible is really thrilling to be studying , and it tells us many things about Jesus kingship.and it is VERY GOOD

 

[Azure24]

God's Plan,


Or even Gods purpose for the earth, is now well along ,and things are happening just as the bible foretold .

Now then, if you believe this. Then you must believe that "free will" is an illusion, foreknowledge contradicts "free will".

Besides, you mentioning "God's purpose" brings up my theory of "cause and effect"

God is the first cause, therefore everything God made must be for His cause.

This includes you and me as individuals...

God did not make us (effect) so we can define our own purpose (cause).

No, mee cause must happen BEFORE effect...

Therefore. For His purpose (cause), God made us (effect).

Are you with me? Or am I going too fast??

So, no matter what we do we will always fulfill the purpose of the cause (His purpose for making us).

soon the earth will be back to paradise conditions, and then it will be VERY GOOD again

The world has and will always be "very good". That is, "very good" for God's purpose of course...

I don't like the use of the word "paradise". It gives the wrong impression...

and no more people in opposition to Gods purpose, only those who are inline with Gods purpose will be left over on the earth .

Again heresy!!! So what will God do with those who are not inline?? EVERYONE is inline with God's purpose even those who are not!! God did form the Devil you know!! READ!!

"So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but OF GOD that shows mercy" (Rom. 9:16)

and more so..

"You will say then unto me, Why does He [God] yet find fault? For who has resisted His will [Greek: boulema—‘resolve, purpose, a deliberate intention’]?" (Rom. 9:19).

Well who? NO ONE!!

"Nay but, O man, WHO ARE YOU that replies against God? Shall the thing formed [that’s us] say to Him that formed it, [that’s GOD] Why have You made me thus? Has not the Potter [GOD] power over the clay [man], of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Rom. 9:20-21).

Read these verses mee, and reconsider...

mee, you fail to realise....GOD, yes mee, GOD is the reason why those that are inline, are inline with God. So the remaining question is, if God is the casue why the righteous are righteous. Then why can't God cause everyone one to be righteous?? Need I answer, read my last post...

 

[Azure24]

Judgment tends to be this thing that everyone seems to get scared about, but the truth is everyone needs it, Judment will make us children of God!!!

What people fail to realise is that after God, through the serpent, had brought about the sin and offense of Adam, He judged the first man by making him and the race mortal, so that they would sin without the direct intervention of Satan...God is responsible for the world we live in today. This, along with the judgment are steps to making us ALL (who are currently in the wrong) right.

 

[mee]

Read these verses mee, and reconsider...

mee, you fail to realise....GOD, yes mee, GOD is the reason why those that are inline, are inline with God. So the remaining question is, if God is the casue why the righteous are righteous. Then why can't God cause everyone one to be righteous?? Need I answer, read my last post...

Gods original purpose for the earth will be fullfilled , even though Satan put a spanner in the works so to speak, it did not change Gods original purpose for the earth ,which was to have perfect humans on the earth inline with God and his purpose .


that original purpose will come to be, thats because
HE CAUSES TO BECOME


but as psalm 37;38 informs us

But the transgressors themselves will certainly be annihilated together;
The future of wicked people will indeed be cut off.
psalm 37;37

​

Hope in Jehovah and keep his way,
And he will exalt you to take possession of the earth.
When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see [it].​

psalm 37;34​

 

[mee]

God is responsible for the world we live in today. quote]



i dont think so

1 JOHN 5;19
We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. (SATAN THE DEVIL)

 

[Azure24]

Gods original purpose for the earth will be fullfilled , even though Satan put a spanner in the works so to speak...

Satan is part of God's plan...

"Now the SERPENT was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had MADE..." (Gen. 3:1)

"By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; his HAND has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13).

 

[Azure24]

i dont think so

1 JOHN 5;19
We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. (SATAN THE DEVIL)

Who made Satan god of this world? himself??

"And the LORD [is this a high enough authority for everyone?] Said unto SATAN [not a heretofore archangel], Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, ‘From going TO AND FRO in the earth, and from walking UP AND DOWN in it" (Job. 1:7 and 2:2).

"Behold, I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16).

I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL [even the creation of evil and even the creation of Satan] THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:5-7).

"He that commits sin is of the DEVIL [Gk: Adversary, Satan] for the Devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the WORKS of the Devil" (I John 3:8).

Even so read Genesis Who gave Satan the order to eat of the dust??