the origin of life and the universe

[iBrian]

Their meanings typically are more about humans' place in the cosmos/world and how we should relate to each other and other beings than it is for the purpose of explanation (as scientific theory would be).

Quite agree - creation stories are often very rich in symbolism that says a lot more about the cultures and people for whom these were aimed at, and their priorities from that cultural stand point.

Some of the Egyptian creation myths, for example, can sound quite absurd - but once you understand the cultural meanings behind the symbols, you can grasp something of the logic behind them.

For example, among the Ancient Egyptians, the unique fertility of the Nile combined with the perceived movement of the sun from east to west set precedents in symbolism relating to meanings of space and time according to this. It's fascinating once you realise east = birth, yesterday, before, beginning; west = death, tomorrow, soon, ending, etc.

Overall, the closest I can come to uniting my experience of the Divine with ideas about the origins of life and universe is just to point people toward the fly-throughs of the Mendelbrot set. I can't describe my thought better than seeing that.

Ah, yes, quite agree:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/infinity-and-g-d-11076.html#post188055

The flythroughs seem to be showing something fundamentally profound, that unfortunately I'm too ape-like to be able to comprehend and describe.

 

[Tao_Equus]

well if a Creator was truly limitless, and not jailed within it'self it woild be fairly easy for it to have a personal relationship with all of it's creations, even the kilo's of bacteria that we all are host to.

I'm still trying to figure out if I've been dissed or not...

Like I said though, I don't know. I'm not trying to say that I do. I believe that there is a god, in fact science and it's quantifiable laws and the way that everything in this universe is able to just work so stupendously in sync with everything around it has led me to believe in God. And right now, scientists the world over cringe... lol. But there it is.

Thank you muchly for your welcome!

I am not attempting to 'diss' you nor diminish your cherished beliefs. Like everyone here I am just using our interaction to state my own thinking by comment on yours.

Well I'm no scientist but I rely heavilly on the scientific community for the information that informs my opinions. I can understand the ideas that lead you to your belief as I have been through times where I have grasped that same straw. Then I looked a bit deeper and realised that these seemingly improbable coincidences and impossible ratios are not the actual fact. We do not have the 'facts' yet. The information is incomplete and thus any conclusion is flawed. I suggest, if you have not done so already, have a good look at chaos theory and try to see its implications, this helped me a great deal in seeing that there is probably a very simple set of rules that require no creator. There is nothing that chaos does not govern but as it is a new field, only discovered in the 1980's, it has not yet filtered into our collective view. its high time it did.

This is a good place to start:
YouTube - Arthur Clarke - Fractals - The Colors Of Infinity 1 of 6

 

[immortalitylost]

I didn't really think you were trying to diss me, just messing around.

As far as the science goes, just the fact that we don't have the facts yet, and are not likely to anytime soon suggests to me that there is more. And maybe God is chaos. God in my experience, is everything.

 

[shawn]

The secret life of the brain - life - 05 November 2008 - New Scientist
Thanks Tao, just when I was getting into the article.....I read this:
To continue reading this article, subscribe to New Scientist.
Great
Now I have to go the library to continue reading.

 

[Tao_Equus]

............................................Sorry

 

[shawn]

It's alright m8 not really mad.
Just messing with you.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I didn't really think you were trying to diss me, just messing around.

As far as the science goes, just the fact that we don't have the facts yet, and are not likely to anytime soon suggests to me that there is more. And maybe God is chaos. God in my experience, is everything.

This goes to POO too. I really wish someone would take out a copyright on term "God." If it's Everything, or Love, or a flippin' Mandelbrot equation why can't we just call it that? I guess I've said this before, but I wish we could reserve "God" to proper monotheistic structures instead of it being a placeholder for amorphous concepts of Connectedness and such.

Chris

 

[iBrian]

This goes to POO too. I really wish someone would take out a copyright on term "God." If it's Everything, or Love, or a flippin' Mandelbrot equation why can't we just call it that? I guess I've said this before, but I wish we could reserve "God" to proper monotheistic structures instead of it being a placeholder for amorphous concepts of Connectedness and such.

In that case, get your own universe, because I'm trademarking this one for my own all-inclusive Panentheist concept of God.

 

[Snoopy]

a flippin' Mandelbrot equation

wow, I bet the temples look a-mazing

I agree it's confusing.

Perhaps one reason is the attempts at intra-faith dialogue; "oh it sounds like what you call God we call Buddha-nature".

Just a thought. Just.

s.

 

[Tao_Equus]

I didn't really think you were trying to diss me, just messing around.

As far as the science goes, just the fact that we don't have the facts yet, and are not likely to anytime soon suggests to me that there is more. And maybe God is chaos. God in my experience, is everything.

By that I think you maybe confuse your own experience, awe, wonder for something manifest in the physical universe? I 'grok' what you say and agree with some of the sentiment behind it. But I think that is all it is. Your own sentiment. Its not a bad sentiment in itself and closer to mine than you might realise.

 

[Snoopy]

oops my mistake, no teleological end nor beginning but eternal [?] cylces, so no time nor place [in space?]. need to do more reading on buddhism; will check the excellent past threads on this forum.

It depends on the perspective, as ever. From the standpoint of time as a process, one can only speak of very long cycles, possibly analogous to the Big Bang Theory, Heat Death and other great heavy metal songs. After the heat death - contraction into a singularity and it all starts again?

From a different standpoint, the only time is always now. You may have heard this idea before? This opens up a vast and meaty area i.e. the nature of time, which I can only get my head around after excessive numbers of espressos. But I just thought I'd give you a notion or two as you ask.

(sorry to be harking back so far in this thread; I thought this forum was all about ancient Greeks and Roman deities...)

s.

 

[immortalitylost]

This is a good place to start:
YouTube - Arthur Clarke - Fractals - The Colors Of Infinity 1 of 6

That's just a visualization of the concept of infinity. I grasped that before. Peh, mortals. Lol. Seriously, it's very pretty. Other than that I don't see what all the fuss is about.

This goes to POO too. I really wish someone would take out a copyright on term "God." If it's Everything, or Love, or a flippin' Mandelbrot equation why can't we just call it that? I guess I've said this before, but I wish we could reserve "God" to proper monotheistic structures instead of it being a placeholder for amorphous concepts of Connectedness and such.

God is an amorphous concept. He is everything.

In that case, get your own universe, because I'm trademarking this one for my own all-inclusive Panentheist concept of God.

But I like this universe! I wanted to take it over someday. After my conquest of the world.... *sobs*

wow, I bet the temples look a-mazing

Rotflmao!!!!! Hahahaha! It's so true!

Just a thought. Just.

Thoughts are good. Keep da good comin'!

By that I think you maybe confuse your own experience, awe, wonder for something manifest in the physical universe? I 'grok' what you say and agree with some of the sentiment behind it. But I think that is all it is. Your own sentiment. Its not a bad sentiment in itself and closer to mine than you might realise.

Kool Score one for sentiment! Seriously, Im just stating what I have found. If it don't work for you, well, you are you, and I am me, and we are different for a reason. I say the reason is God. You have your own thoughts. It's all good!

It depends on the perspective, as ever. From the standpoint of time as a process, one can only speak of very long cycles, possibly analogous to the Big Bang Theory, Heat Death and other great heavy metal songs. After the heat death - contraction into a singularity and it all starts again?

From a different standpoint, the only time is always now. You may have heard this idea before? This opens up a vast and meaty area i.e. the nature of time, which I can only get my head around after excessive numbers of espressos. But I just thought I'd give you a notion or two as you ask.

The nature of time, you say? Elementary my dear Watson, hand me my puffy pipe, I have some thinking to do...

Seriously though, (sorry, I've been up all night, and am in a state of zombification.) I thought that they were saying that it was cold death for us now, because space is moving fast enough to reach escape velocity from whatever gynormous ball of gravity is at the center. I personally don't like it. I liked heat death better... I want a refund.

 

[Snoopy]

The nature of time, you say? Elementary my dear Watson, hand me my puffy pipe, I have some thinking to do...

I can wait (pun intended...)

Seriously though, (sorry, I've been up all night, and am in a state of zombification.) I thought that they were saying that it was cold death for us now, because space is moving fast enough to reach escape velocity from whatever gynormous ball of gravity is at the center. I personally don't like it. I liked heat death better... I want a refund.

Well the upshot is...I bet it's cyclic. Or maybe it isn't. Frankly it won't help pay my bills so I'm not fussed either way...

And as for the refund...if you check the small print on the back of your ticket you'll see that it's non-refundable. Sorry.

s.

 

[immortalitylost]

I can wait (pun intended...)

zzzzzz... snort! Oh, well good, because the cartwheeling bunny in my dream stole my puffy pipe. I am useless without it! Useless!

Well the upshot is...I bet it's cyclic. Or maybe it isn't. Frankly it won't help pay my bills so I'm not fussed either way...

And as for the refund...if you check the small print on the back of your ticket you'll see that it's non-refundable. Sorry.

I dont think the cold death is... But it's been a while since I saw about it, I can't remember. I like cycles, that's the reason why I didn't like it I think.
Oh well...

But I needed that refund to buy the uranium for my world domination scheme! Somehow this must be that cartwheeling bunny's fault...

 

[stjerry]

the origin of life and the universe. origin or univers means principle, the origin of life and the universe simply means the principle of life and the universe, talking about GOD; God is light and the shadow of that light is what moses called darkness, because the light has no limit the shadow also has no limit, he that is of the light will the light and he that is of the darkness will see darkness moses was unable to see the light of God he only saw the shadows of the things of God, the origin of life and the universe came from the thought of God his mind is the principle (origin) of life and the universe his mind is the womb in which every thing is conceived.

 

[Modern Primitive]

The sawdust of reality still exists, meaning the scraps left over from the beginning of the universe still stand, and that is how we can judge how the universe came to be.

In my belief, I believe that our inner mind is spiritual and our outer mind, what I like to call Meat Space is the physical side of reality that we least have to focus on.

Meat Space began from what science has discovered and will discover.

Dream reality is the life we should focus more on, I live in it at least 19/24 hours per day, more if I am able. As to my experiences point out that the inner reality is more to focus on.

 

[arohk]

I am a believer in the big bang theory I seen a few documentaries on some really interesting thoughts of the whole thing.

I also believe in the evolution theory and that technicaly we are all made of star dust literaly they have proven as well as they can that there is microscopic life in space.

 

[seattlegal]

Welcome to IO, arohk.

I also believe in the evolution theory and that technicaly we are all made of star dust literaly they have proven as well as they can that there is microscopic life in space.

Oh where? I wanna see!

 

[Etu Malku]

I gather we are discussing the 'objective universe' here? Because our subjective universe is much older than the objective universe.

what the hell did he say?

 

[radarmark]

Big bang theory (there being just one big "accidental" creation) may or may not be true. See Penrose's "Cycles of Time".

Star-dust. Yep, we need novas to produce anything heavier than helium.

Evolution... true. Just check out the many drug-resistent strains of bacteria and germs or insecticide-resistent insects we have sucessfully bred.

"Microscopic life in space"? That is a new one on me. Blue-green algae fossils in meteorites or Mars, yes. They are microscopic, they are in "Space" if you mean in the universe. Did they originate in "space" as in-between-stars? No.