Machine People -- not human

[Saltmeister]

I don't see the need for machine people. To me that is sci fi stuff and way to much work.

It's done to please anthropocentrists.

Want a machine to walk up stairs? We invent the escalator, dumbwaiter or elevator, no need for it to look like a human walking upstairs. The answering machine has eliminated the receptionist in many offices...but again, it doesn't have the legs or the smile (please don't tell Avi I said that). And how about all the machines that have replace auto workers, none of them looks human. Or someone spoke of the lorrie drivers, we have automated trucks following human driven trucks...without the driver...but again, it simply needs to control acceleration, steering, brakes, to make it fully automated we simply add radar, a camera, gps and mapquest, but again, nothing has to look like a driver.

You're right and I agree. I'm personally not interested in a machine that looks like a human. I'm more interested in a machine that works like the human brain.

So I see AI coming, I see machines doing an increasing amount of labor and thinking, but why on earth would anyone need one to look and act human? Why add our faults and inadequacies to the equation?

Human error is a vicious cycle. We wanted to create something to eliminate human error, but forgot to remove the human error in how we created and designed the replacement.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I see no such ego need to make a human...

The upcoming sex-bots will not only gratify one's ego, but other things besides.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Dream]

I have been told they already make inflatable ones, only they don't seem very 'pop'-ular.

 

[shawn]

Seems more like immortality of the vessel that the "personality" is uploaded to than the person that it's uploaded from.

Is it just the personality that makes an individual what they are?
I think there is more to that picture....much more.....we are all luminous beings living in a meat envelope which develop personalities that are changeable.
So if they merely upload the personality configuration of the person then the character gets preserved without the essence.
But this is all mute as we are immortal already, just stuck in this birth, death, re-birth loop.
Only the egotistical or spiritually blind wish to remain in a particular incarnation.

 

[Eudaimonist]

So if they merely upload the personality configuration of the person then the character gets preserved without the essence.

Tell it to the Buddha. He rejected the idea of an eternal, self-sufficient "essence" hiding inside of our bodies, and for good reasons. From a Buddhist perspective, there is no need to transfer an "essence" from one body to another because there is no essence.

We, as aware entities, arise moment to moment from the right sort of causes and conditions, "meat" being one possibility, and possibly computer electronics being another. In Buddhist rebirth, it is karma, not an "essence", that influences future lifetimes. Perhaps the process of uploading one's personality matrix into a computer mind is similar to this karmic process.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nivek]

Is it just the personality that makes an individual what they are?
I think there is more to that picture....much more.....we are all luminous beings living in a meat envelope which develop personalities that are changeable.
So if they merely upload the personality configuration of the person then the character gets preserved without the essence.
But this is all mute as we are immortal already, just stuck in this birth, death, re-birth loop.
Only the egotistical or spiritually blind wish to remain in a particular incarnation.

That's sorta what I was pointing at. "What" is aware of that personality, not just the persona itself.

Tell it to the Buddha. He rejected the idea of an eternal, self-sufficient "essence" hiding inside of our bodies, and for good reasons. From a Buddhist perspective, there is no need to transfer an "essence" from one body to another because there is no essence.

We, as aware entities, arise moment to moment from the right sort of causes and conditions, "meat" being one possibility, and possibly computer electronics being another. In Buddhist rebirth, it is karma, not an "essence", that influences future lifetimes. Perhaps the process of uploading one's personality matrix into a computer mind is similar to this karmic process.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I don't neccessarily(sp?) agree with that. Karma drives and shapes the personality into a direction. Uploading the personality matrix would still be a copy, not continuation of that specific accumulation of karma that the personality in question would be.

If uploading were possible, I think you would end up with two personalities similar but would inevitably drive off into different directions due to variation in circumstances and choices, even if they are similar at first. And if you take machines being able to accumulate karma, they would end up making choices unlike their predecessor, which would accumulate a different karma and thus produce a different personality over time. Not like taking your memory card from your playstation and just moving it to another playstation (or maybe just like it cuz ur choices in the game may be different depending in what mood your in atm).

 

[Eudaimonist]

Karma drives and shapes the personality into a direction. Uploading the personality matrix would still be a copy, not continuation of that specific accumulation of karma that the personality in question would be.

So, it's a copy. So what? A copy would have the same content. That is all that is required of karma -- to have a certain content. It doesn't have to be the "original" karma, since karma is simply a cause that produces psychological effects.

If uploading were possible, I think you would end up with two personalities similar but would inevitably drive off into different directions due to variation in circumstances and choices, even if they are similar at first.

Yes, the personalities would diverge due to different circumstances and choices. I agree with you there. But none of the individuals would have a greater claim on being the "original" psychologically (only physically). They would all have the exact same past up to the point of copying, and would all be possible future selves.

Consider the following thought experiment:

You are rendered unconscious and moved bodily to a new location. This location could be New York City, Tokyo, or Paris. Depending on where you wake up, your life will take a new course of action due to varying circumstances and choices. However, no matter where you wake up, I'm sure you'll agree that you are still the "original" you.

Okay, now imagine that you are moved bodily to Tokyo, but copies of you are created who wake up in NYC and Paris. They do what you would have done if you had woken up in one of those two cities.

What is the difference between you, the original, waking up in Paris, and a copy waking up in Paris? There is none.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nivek]

Yes, the personalities would diverge due to different circumstances and choices. I agree with you there. But none of the individuals would have a greater claim on being the "original" psychologically (only physically). They would all have the exact same past up to the point of copying, and would all be possible future selves.

Now I think your talking about uniqueness as opposed to originality. It may not be unique at first but still be the original. Of course copies are going to be the same superficially. And why would they not be able to claim originality on the psychological level? If people change over time even in their minds (as stubborn as habits are), why would not copies become different and a person not be able to claim originality based on the fact that the clones act different than them? Perhaps not in individual worth but still.

I think I see from your point what your getting at but with my stances on their being a soul (or something permanent, be it Atman-like or whatever) I hold there to be a specific individual in the soul sense. But I don't think that view is a problem for you .

An interesting question to pose, perhaps in another thread, would be that, if copies are made and (provided you believe in a soul) would the copy be inhabited by a new soul if a soul were a required condition for biological life? And would this lead to different behavior regarding their past if it were possible to upload the same memory of the original? Oh, the things to ponder.

 

[Ahanu]

So I see AI coming, I see machines doing an increasing amount of labor and thinking, but why on earth would anyone need one to look and act human?

. . . for intimate relationship!

Man lives with robot girlfriend // Current

 

[citizenzen]

. . . for intimate relationship!

Flesh and blood... and angst and artistry, for me.

Dude! Use the internets to find the girl-nerd of your dreams.

(And what's with that thing on "her" head?)

 

[Raksha]

I assume the point of this poll is whether there can be a mechanical equivalent of a human being. I say NO because I can't imagine a machine with free will. And unless it has free will, it can't possibly be the equivalent of a human being no matter how intelligent it is.

--Linda

 

[Raksha]

. . . for intimate relationship!

Man lives with robot girlfriend // Current

Wow...that link even saves me the hassle of coming up with me own comment! A couple of good ones:

This reminds me of The Stepford Wives. He must be incredibly hard to live with since he seeks perfection in a companion. Kind of creepy, mostly sad.

OK, lemme get this straight.
The guy has 'no time to find a girlfriend',
But he has the time to design and build a robot?
Why doesn't he just admit he has no luck with the ladies?

Personally, I think he did it as a publicity stunt. Or maybe he's going to market them?

--Linda

 

[Ahanu]

Personally, I think he did it as a publicity stunt. Or maybe he's going to market them?

--Linda

This is a quote from his website:

How much Aiko will cost?

My estimated cost for mass production of Aiko is about $17,000 - $20,000USD. Hopefully, one day I will find a sponsor to mass produce Aiko's sisters.

http://www.projectaiko.com/faq.html

So, yes, he plans to sell them. BTW, Hiroshi Ishiguro is another humanoid producer. Ishiguro's look alot more realistic, however.

 

[Ahanu]

(And what's with that thing on "her" head?)

A maid hat?