One Way: the reason why Christian ecumenicalism is impossible

Quahom1 said:
Now why would God want to pee in your cornflakes? That would do absolutely no good for your complexion...
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But would you be willing to take the act of recycling a step further and internally honor your bodily home, if it meant you'd have more energy, a stronger immune system, and an ageless complexion? Of course you would. Well, what if I said you can have all this and more for the mere cost of - a cupful of urine? ... more ...
 
Netti-Netti said:
In retrospect, this is really a sloppy attempt to find Biblical support for an exclusivist view on Christ Jesus' stature. Why would one automatically assume that "eternal life" should be equated with "Salvation" ?

Perhaps "Eternal Life" pertains to an individual existence that partakes of the Divine Directive. I think the term is "soteriological consumation" - i.e., the continuation of G-d's work in history.
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It was never said that eternal life was equated with salvation. What was said is that all will be judged at the end, by their merits. Christians believe that because they accept Christ now, they will bypass that judgement, and will move on to judgement of merit (after accepting the salvation of Christ). Like the servants given talents to invest for the master.

It is never said that others won't make it to heaven, just that without going through Jesus, none will make it to the Father.

Needle eye that a camel has to go through...
 
Quahom1 said:
It is never said that others won't make it to heaven, just that without going through Jesus, none will make it to the Father.
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Why would God show a different face to different people, different cultures?

To make it easier for everybody to understand?

Is there any aspect of "the Father" that is more desirable than other aspects of God? Or is just another face of It?
 
wil said:
But would you be willing to take the act of recycling a step further and internally honor your bodily home, if it meant you'd have more energy, a stronger immune system, and an ageless complexion? Of course you would. Well, what if I said you can have all this and more for the mere cost of - a cupful of urine? ... more ...
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I can tell you that there are more poisons in urine than you can shake a stick at. The kidneys do not dump that fluid for nothing...

Even NASA and the international space community are not completely comfortable with using the reclamation equipment aboard ISS to certify that recycled urine is approved for human consumption. Too many variables and poisons...
 
citizenzen said:
Why would God show a different face to different people, different cultures?

To make it easier for everybody to understand?

Is there any aspect of "the Father" that is more desirable than other aspects of God? Or is just another face of It?
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What makes you think he is showing a different face? Same face, people interpret it differently. We make God in our image, because of our - vanity?
 
wil said:
Don't know why Jesus never learned proper english...it would be I and the Father is one.
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Proper English is putting a higher person first...that is as old as the hills, in both english and german and french and latin and spanish...and even slovic languages.
 
Quahom1 said:
What makes you think he is showing a different face? Same face, people interpret it differently. We make God in our image, because of our - vanity?
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Then what did you mean by "the Father"?

Quahom1 said:
It is never said that others won't make it to heaven, just that without going through Jesus, none will make it to the Father.
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citizenzen said:
Then what did you mean by "the Father"?
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whoo boy, I have to walk carefully here.

Here goes:

Jesus said, "None can get to the Father but through me". That means that if one wants an audience with the Father, it is only through the Son that one gets that audience. And to be in the presense of the Father is to be in the ultimate audience.

So, One will have to acknowledge the revelation of the Son (at some point), in order to have an audience with the Father. But by acknowledging that revelation of the Son (Jesus, the Christ), a whole bunch of things happens to the one acknowledging the fact of Jesus, the Christ. They change. They change into a way and form that is pleasant to the Father (they are without blemish).

Now there are those that have never heard of the salvation of Christ Jesus (I mean never had that impact on their lives). They will have the opportunity to stand before God the Judge, based on their merit while alive. And I suspect they will find their name in the "book of life".

But there will come a time when they wish to have an audience with God the Father (who wouldn't), and here is where it stutters. They can only have access to the Father by acknowledging the Son as the only way to the Father.

Kind of like getting into the gates of the city, but never getting to see the one who personally saved you from the enemy outside...saved your life, your personality, everything about you intact, and gave you respet.

I don't know about you, but that would drive me nuts, not being able to thank the one that gave me everything, when I could have lost all.

Does that make sense?
 
Quahom1 said:
It was never said that eternal life was equated with salvation.
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Howdy,

This passage in particular would seem to be equating eternal life
and salvation of the world:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and
only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish
but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn
the world, but to save the world through him.

(John 3:16-21)

Salvation/Eternal Life appears as the alternative to a perished/
condemned state.
 
Netti-Netti said:
Howdy,

This passage in particular would seem to be equating eternal life
and salvation of the world:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and
only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish
but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn
the world, but to save the world through him.

(John 3:16-21)
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Indeed, but did you really read my post? It said that there are those that will stand before the Judge and be judged, based on their merit (having no knowledge of Christ), and they will enter the gates of heaven, but they will not enter the presence of the Father but through the Son...

I change nothing.
 
Quahom1 said:
But there will come a time when they wish to have an audience with God the Father (who wouldn't), and here is where it stutters. They can only have access to the Father by acknowledging the Son as the only way to the Father.

Does that make sense?
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No. Sorry. It still sounds like the two-faced God.

You still limit what other people can experience and hold you experience higher than others.

That is culture. It is not God.

At least IMNSHO.
 
citizenzen said:
No. Sorry. It still sounds like the two-faced God.

You still limit what other people can experience and hold you experience higher than others.

That is culture. It is not God.

At least IMNSHO.
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There is no "Janus" here. God the Father has expectations. We can't possibly meet those expectations. But through the Son, we can. Simple, direct.
 
Quahom1 said:
There is no "Janus" here. God the Father has expectations. We can't possibly meet those expectations. But through the Son, we can. Simple, direct.
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Too bad non-Christians can't experience it.

In my club, everybody gets to dance.

That's why I don't come to yours.
 
Quahom1 said:
... they will enter the gates of heaven, but they will not enter the presence of the Father but through the Son...
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I thought that Heaven was the same as being in the Father' presence.

"He who would swear by heaven swears by G-d's throne" (Matthew 23:22)
 
citizenzen said:
Too bad non-Christians can't experience it.

In my club, everybody gets to dance.

That's why I don't come to yours.
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Too bad learned folk can't accept what is placed before them. In my Lord's club, everyone dances for ever...
 
Netti-Netti said:
I thought that Heaven was the same as being in the Father' presence.

"He who would swear by heaven swears by G-d's throne" (Matthew 23:22)
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He who swears by heaven does swear by God's Throne, and what is bound on earth is bound in heaven, and what is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven...God gives man a great deal of leeway, even in our stupidity.

But there will come a day of recogning...and we will account for our actions.
 
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