Organized Atheism (And so it begins...)

Avi1223 said:
From my perspective, interfaith dialogue is about complex engagement. It is through this type of discussion that both sides and learn and grow.

Peace to you.
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Learning & Growing from religion forums? I would have to disagree. I have been watching this place for almost 6 years and that does include watching 2 years before joining it. All I have ever seen is bickering & arguing over the same stuff, over & over & over and it never changes. Religion forums remind me of over inflated egos. To me it is about cheap entertainment.:)

of course i have learned some things about religions but it does nothing for me. There are a few folks who I enjoy talking to in quiet places & that is where I get some growth.

Actually, I like talking with Bandit, even if we disagree.
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I am the same. Just don't set me up for a double crossing like some of the jews & christians have in the past & we will be fine.
 
Bandit said:
Learning & Growing from religion forums? I would have to disagree. I have been watching this place for almost 6 years and that does include watching 2 years before joining it. All I have ever seen is bickering & arguing over the same stuff, over & over & over and it never changes...

...Just don't set me up for a double crossing like some of the jews & christians have in the past & we will be fine.
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After all this time I'd think you'd be quite prepared for the double-crosses.

Perhaps you should take notes.
 
citizenzen said:
After all this time I'd think you'd be quite prepared for the double-crosses.

Perhaps you should take notes.
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I am very prepared & I don't need notes. there are no 2nd chances for deliberates.
Perhaps you should mind your own business instead of everyone elses.
 
Bandit said:
dont forget the romans/christians throwing stones. they were all in on it equally.
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The civil Romans threw stones? Yes, but they were merely banning someone for not behaving civilized.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Look, declaring as a atheist does nothing for you. It's not like putting a fish on your tailgate, or your company stationary. It doesn't help you network, especially not in the Bible belt...or anywhere else really.
Chris
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Actually, Chris- being an atheist helps you in networking a lot in academic circles. Theists are considered the odd ones. I've gotten a lot of flack for being a theist.
 
Avi1223 said:
Bandit and C0de,

Here is an interesting excerpt about this issue that I found in wiki:

I look forward to your interpretations of these statements.
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em sorry to butt in but where were the jews in this judeo-christian 'reconciliation'?

Modern Papal views

Pope Benedict XVI has expressed very similar views to those of some of the Orthodox rabbis, saying in a 2004 book with Marcello Pera that inter-cultural dialogue could often be positive, but that theological dialogue was practically impossible and not always desirable.

hey, at least we're trying!
 
ciberpy said:
I find that some people are determined to define God by a religion and refuse to budge from that. Sometimes its almost like they need God to be that way as a prop for their own insecurities in their lack of faith. Even if religionists form into a significant formal lobby, they will not have a higher hand over those who admit they don't see God.

Who can fault an atheist, really... for stating what they honestly do not see and believe? It seems to me far better than the religionist, who falsely states what they merely want to see and believe. Perhaps though, Tao... that it is more like those women that we discussed who you claimed do not wish to really know the truth. But if they spoke and claimed true what was not really true, then maybe we should help inform them of their error? Perhaps? The ignorance might be bliss, but speaking that ignorance as gospel won't exactly make the fantasy real... right?

I find that speaking about God is a lot like speaking about good sex. There is a fine line bordering around gossip and taboo. A person could tell another person all about sex, from their perspective of course, but if a person does not know then they still will NOT know, no matter what is said. It is like trying to inform a person of their ignorance. In the religionist corner we have these virgins telling us how great sex is, but in this atheist corner we have these virgins informing us that sex does not even exist. Who will be convinced, and what good will it really do? Perhaps it is almost as bad as the group that organizes so emphatically to tell the children that sex really does exist, because they just know it, but that the children are not really mature enough to have it so don't even think about it yet. Brilliant... do the kids ever line up to ask how they can become more mature? It is a real pickle... talking about sex... or, about the sex that does not exist.
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Hi there :) ,

My sex life has nothing to do with religion. So I do not really get what you are trying to say. You may view my 'lies' to maintain more than one lover as morally reprehensible but I do not and it has nothing to do with what I posted. Not that I can see. So I do not really see what you are getting at. And I am a little surprised at you obliquely hinting on some revelation you have had based on a private conversation. Not that I actually mind, I'm just surprised by it.
 
path_of_one said:
Actually, Chris- being an atheist helps you in networking a lot in academic circles. Theists are considered the odd ones. I've gotten a lot of flack for being a theist.
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I wonder if that is because theism has all these doctrines about god controlling & intervening in everything? in contrast to deism? Exclusive monotheism has not really helped to bring unity and equality, rather a bunch of people fighting & telling everyone else exactly how this one & only god is. I hope I never gave you flack for it, but I could see why some would.
 
Bandit said:
Learning & Growing from religion forums? I would have to disagree. I have been watching this place for almost 6 years and that does include watching 2 years before joining it. All I have ever seen is bickering & arguing over the same stuff, over & over & over and it never changes. Religion forums remind me of over inflated egos. To me it is about cheap entertainment.:)
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lmao, that is about 95% of it for sure but there is the odd moment here and there that are a little more 'meaningful'.
 
nativeastral said:
em sorry to butt in but where were the jews in this judeo-christian 'reconciliation'?

Modern Papal views

Pope Benedict XVI has expressed very similar views to those of some of the Orthodox rabbis, saying in a 2004 book with Marcello Pera that inter-cultural dialogue could often be positive, but that theological dialogue was practically impossible and not always desirable.

hey, at least we're trying!
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It was just January 2009 one of the rabbis got all pissy because someone in the catholic clergy said it wasn't exactly 6 million jews who died in the war, & so they stopped their little peace talks for awhile. There is no winnning or change happening with either side, other than the continued effort to control the world in politics using religion as an excuse. Just because they say they don't believe something today might mean that for today, but doesn't mean that next month:D
 
path_of_one said:
Actually, Chris- being an atheist helps you in networking a lot in academic circles. Theists are considered the odd ones. I've gotten a lot of flack for being a theist.
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That is no surprise though is it? After all there are many that are religious consistently and persistently misrepresenting science, claiming it as their own and even willing to attack and attempt the career destruction of good scientists. There are fields within science where religion can be discussed but if they are theistic debate they cease to be good science.
 
Well, I wrote a long response but the computer ate it. Must be meant to be.

For Bandit

Theism has no doctrines. Religions do.

Of all people, academics and scientists should be avoiding biases built on a rather narrow view of religion (certain types of the Western religions) and be more open-minded about what a person could mean by "God," "Divine" and "theism."

There are more types of theism (many more) than the mono big beardy sky god variety. I would expect my esteemed colleagues to do a little more work on fostering an attitude of tolerance, at least in order to understand.

What I actually find is that much of it is tied to latent racism/ thoughts about ethnicity, and that is partly why I find it so disturbing. If I were Maya or from some Native American tribe, my rituals to commune with the spirits of nature and the Divine, my mystical experiences... all of it would be groovy and I'd be "keeping my tradition" and "ensuring cultural survival" and my spiritual life and religion would be something good.

But alas, I'm a middle class white girl and so I "must" be monotheist, in which case I "must" be just like those vocal fundies. And if they find I'm not, and in fact I am building some sort of syncretic religion that makes sense to me and that honors my ancestors and my ancestral traditions, then I'm an idiot and a nut. The double standard actually implies racism against those "noble savages," who, God bless them, don't know any better and certainly shouldn't change... while us white folk should know better than to talk to trees, invoke elementals, and commune with the Divine.

What a load of prejudicial crap from all directions. That's what I say.

for Tao:

Of course scientists have legitimate concern that science is misused and that they are called evil by certain small sub-sets of Christianity. But so too has religion been ostracized and approached as if all religionists are idiots by scientists.

The bottom line is there is really no excuse for my colleagues bad behavior with regard to individuals like me, because they know from experience that I am not seeking to misuse science and that I demonstrate decent commitment to and use of the scientific mode of inquiry. Their assessment of my theism and my spiritual life as being stupid or crazy is purely out of their own self-interest to preserve their own level of psychological comfort (to not have diversity or dissention of this particular kind within the group) and therefore I experience it much as I do when Christians tell me I am going to hell. Though the content of the prejudice is different, I suspect the underlying reason is the same- people don't like the grey areas of life. They want clear boundaries and either/or here in the West, and anyone in the both/and position pays the price for making others uncomfortable.
 
Tao_Equus said:
That is no surprise though is it? After all there are many that are religious consistently and persistently misrepresenting science, claiming it as their own and even willing to attack and attempt the career destruction of good scientists. There are fields within science where religion can be discussed but if they are theistic debate they cease to be good science.
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No, this phenomenon is not field specific. The entire theology department at UofT contains probably one or two dedicated theists *(and I am being very generous with these figures).* Actually, I doubt you will find many dedicated theists inside churches, mosques and temples.

Religion, is not "kool" anywhere.... While atheism, is actually a fashion statement.
 
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