Bolivian Glacier Disappears

[citizenzen]

Just wanted to post another global warming update.
Looking outside today....what do I see.....?
SNOW
Explain that.

Explain how respective localities in the world experience different weather?

Do you really need an explanation for that?

 

[shawn]

You are being obtuse.

 

[citizenzen]

You are being obtuse.

Weren't you?

 

[seattlegal]

Just wanted to post another global warming update.
Looking outside today....what do I see.....?
SNOW
Explain that.

Not enough greenhouse gases to hold the heat in at night?

Are you in Alberta, or something? How about an area where there's a lot of agriculture? If so, have the local farmers have been having to resow their fields due to late frosts? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[citizenzen]

You are being obtuse.

If you were just joking, then I apologize for missing that.

It's not uncommon, however, to hear that line of "reasoning" put forth.

 

[Avi]

Not enough greenhouse gases to hold the heat in at night?

Actually, when the Bush administrations hot air (or hot CO2) was replaced by the nice, cool, Obama, clean air, it allowed some of that nasty global warming to leave. See Obama is succeeding already

Oh, I remember SG, lets not mix politics and science

 

[seattlegal]

Actually, when the Bush administrations hot air (or hot CO2) was replaced by the nice, cool, Obama, clean air, it allowed some of that nasty global warming to leave. See Obama is succeeding already

Oh, I remember SG, lets not mix politics and science

Actually, I'm really interested in knowing about how local farmers are doing in various locations. If you have overnight freezing, it could be due to a lack of moisture. (Clouds hold the heat in at night. Clear skies at night allows the heat to escape. This is the "greenhouse effect" in action.) However, snow would be an indicator that the cold temperatures are not due to a lack of moisture in the air.

 

[seattlegal]

Just wanted to post another global warming update.
Looking outside today....what do I see.....?
SNOW
Explain that.

Are you in Northern Ohio, shawn?
Record low, frost hurt crops - The News-Herald News : Breaking news coverage for Northern Ohio

 

[Avi]

Actually, I'm really interested in knowing about how local farmers are doing in various locations. If you have overnight freezing, it could be due to a lack of moisture. (Clouds hold the heat in at night. Clear skies at night allows the heat to escape. This is the "greenhouse effect" in action.) However, snow would be an indicator that the cold temperatures are not due to a lack of moisture in the air.

The reason I was sarastic about the story of snow is because ever since the beginning of the global warming debate, detractors have pointed to periods of cooling (one day of snow is really silly though, isn't it).

This is really just a debaters trick, because as we know from our earlier discussions, the time frame we are discussing for global climate change is hundreds, thousands...millions of years.

So one night of snow flurries is just due to a local low pressure event, no real significance, just enjoy the snow, we can all use a little more water.

 

[seattlegal]

The reason I was sarastic about the story of snow is because ever since the beginning of the global warming debate, detractors have pointed to periods of cooling (one day of snow is really silly though, isn't it).

This is really just a debaters trick, because as we know from our earlier discussions, the time frame we are discussing for global climate change is hundreds, thousands...millions of years.

So one night of snow flurries is just due to a local low pressure event, no real significance, just enjoy the snow, we can all use a little more water.

I'm worried about the farmers and the crops, Avi. You might not be, but I am. You've heard about the "little ice age" that happened back in the medieval period when the sun was going through a sunspot minimum, and all the difficulty they were having with the crops? Well, the sun is quiet right now, with nary a sunspot to be seen. It makes me want to keep a close eye on the agricultural situation.

 

[Avi]

I'm worried about the farmers and the crops, Avi. You might not be, but I am.

SG, you are clearly a very compassionate person.

But the reason that Al Gore won the Nobel Prize for articulating his views about global warming is because they are so powerful. He took the wind out of the sails of your arguments, even before you launch them.

Not only are we concerned about the small family farms, but we are concerned about the cute, cuddly white polar bears that are floating on the slabs of ice in the Antarctic because of the warming caused by greenhouse gases.

Your concern about the farmers is admirable. Are you and Shawn suggesting that we now need to worry about "global cooling" ? If so, we might need a new thread for this in the science fiction sub-forum

 

[citizenzen]

I'm worried about the farmers and the crops, Avi. You might not be, but I am.

Yes Avi... why do you hate the farmers so much?

(Jeez, SG... nice leap of illogic there.)

Actually SG, I thought you were playing "Where's shawn?" I'm guessing Idaho.

(sweet use of background color matching and drop shadow, eh?)

 

[Avi]

Actually SG, I thought you were playing "Where's shawn?" I'm guessing Idaho.

I bet on Antarctica

 

[seattlegal]

SG, you are clearly a very compassionate person.

But the reason that Al Gore won the Nobel Prize for articulating his views about global warming is because they are so powerful. He took the wind out of the sails of your arguments, even before you launch them.

Gee, Avi, you keep bringing politics into science while rebuking me for it?

Since you've set me up for a damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't scenerio, I might just as well go for it, since I'm damned either way.

Al Gore got everyone mad at him by declaring, "The debate is over!" Funny thing, he keeps repeatedly ducking out of debates.
Goracular - WSJ.com

Not only are we concerned about the small family farms, but we are concerned about the cute, cuddly white polar bears that are floating on the slabs of ice in the Antarctic because of the warming caused by greenhouse gases.

Your concern about the farmers is admirable. Are you and Shawn suggesting that we now need to worry about "global cooling" ? If so, we might need a new thread for this in the science fiction sub-forum

I'm interested in observing what is happening. If you want to call that science fiction, then you might want to take a break and have a reality check.
{Please don't tell me that you are like Al Gore and want to declare that the debate is over, as well.}

 

[citizenzen]

Gee, Avi, you keep bringing politics into science while rebuking me for it?

Since you've set me up for a damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't scenerio, I might just as well go for it, since I'm damned either way.

SG, are you a having a bad day?

It was just a few short weeks ago that we beat this subject to death. This thread's in danger of becoming the next Obama's Birth Certificate.

And guess who gets to play the role of Nick_A this time?

 

[seattlegal]

SG, are you a having a bad day?

I am now.

It was just a few short weeks ago that we beat this subject to death. This thread's in danger of becoming the next Obama's Birth Certificate.

And guess who gets to play the role of Nick_A this time?

I will continue to investigate the facts, like I usually do. (Not many journalists doing that anymore. Someone has to do it.)

 

[Avi]

SG, are you a having a bad day?

I think SG is still a little peeved at me from the earlier Zen thread, after all I did get a little out of line on that one. It's okay, we are just having a little lighthearted debate here

 

[citizenzen]

I will continue to investigate the facts, like I usually do. (Not many journalists doing that anymore. Someone has to do it.)

You go, girlfriend. Let us know when you find something.

As for a debate, we had one, you lost, and there's no use rehashing it... until you uncover those facts you think are out there.

Via con dios.

God speed.

Write when you find work.

 

[Avi]

Gee, Avi, you keep bringing politics into science while rebuking me for it?

SG, I am not rebuking you for anything. I said in my previous post that you are a compassionate person.

You are right, I often tend to bring other, broader issues into ones which I am discussing. This was a problem even in my first post in the Buddhist sub-forum when I was asking your thoughts about Obama.

In my training as an engineer I learned that complex systems are often interconnected at hierarchically higher levels. What I mean is that I often try to do a "big picture" analysis.

You might not agree with my analogies, but I have the right to consider them, don't I ?

Since you've set me up for a damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't scenerio, I might just as well go for it, since I'm damned either way.

Al Gore got everyone mad at him by declaring, "The debate is over!" Funny thing, he keeps repeatedly ducking out of debates.
Goracular - WSJ.com

I am not trying to set you up for damned if I do, etc.....actually, in the preliminary research that I did a few weeks ago when we had this earlier debate, I did come across some inconsistencies and possible contradictions in the greenhouse gases to global heating linkage. And I think the point that you brought out about the high levels of CO2 during global cooling was a valid issue as well. I would be glad to discuss these issues further in the future if anyone is really interested. I am fortunate to have access to some very high quality journals, which have very reliable data and information available.

I'm interested in observing what is happening. If you want to call that science fiction, then you might want to take a break and have a reality check.
{Please don't tell me that you are like Al Gore and want to declare that the debate is over, as well.}

I was just kidding about the science fiction comment (sorry if it was too sarcastic), besides, this debate is too much fun for me to take a break

In fact, I think you guys should join the genetically modified food debate on a parallel thread, I need some help straightening Tao out, over there

 

[seattlegal]

SG, I am not rebuking you for anything. I said in my previous post that you are a compassionate person.

You are right, I often tend to bring other, broader issues into ones which I am discussing. This was a problem even in my first post in the Buddhist sub-forum when I was asking your thoughts about Obama.

Now I'm holding a grudge? I need some coffee!