God and UFOs

[citizenzen]

A popular radio program, Coast to Coast AM, recently had a program, UFOs & Demonic Activity where...

Traditional Catholic Benedictine Monk for over 15 years, Brother Michael Dimond discussed his belief that UFOs/aliens are demonic spiritual entities. UFOs are reported to appear and disappear, change color and shape, and seem like they are alive. These are characteristics of non-material or spiritual phenomena rather than inanimate physical objects, he suggested. Further, he said the idea that ETs travel such vast distances to get to Earth doesn't make sense.

Now frankly, I don't care whether UFOs are little green men or demonic spiritual entities. The most interesting part of the program for me (which I only caught the first few minutes of) is where the host asked Dimond whether he believed life could exist elsewhere in the universe.

Dimond's answer was an emphatic "no." Life, particularly intelligent life, could only exist on Earth, based on scripture that he cited. Now most any scientist or fan of cosmology will tell you that it's almost impossible for intelligent life to not exist somewhere in the billions of star systems in the billions of galaxies beyond our own. And while I'm not expecting any of them to land on our own planet, I would not be surprised if we pick up a signal that may be proof of their existence.

If this discovery occurred, what are the chances that Dimond would accept the evidence? When one only accepts information that conforms to their belief, empirical evidence becomes meaningless and is easily dismissed. We've seen it in regards to evolution, human behavior and cosmology.

My questions:

1. What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

2. Imagine (the unlikely scenario) that aliens landed on the Earth and completely overwhelmed us with their superior intellect, technology and spiritual development. If they believed in a God, would it be the same one you believe in? If they didn't have any notion of Jesus Christ, would they be saved?

3. In what ways do you ignore and dismiss empirical evidence in order that you not disturb or challenge the beliefs that you hold so dear? (Okay... I'll admit that I really don't expect anybody to have the "huevos" to answer that question honestly... but do try.)

 

[Tao_Equus]

1. What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

2. Imagine (the unlikely scenario) that aliens landed on the Earth and completely overwhelmed us with their superior intellect, technology and spiritual development. If they believed in a God, would it be the same one you believe in? If they didn't have any notion of Jesus Christ, would they be saved?

3. In what ways do you ignore and dismiss empirical evidence in order that you not disturb or challenge the beliefs that you hold so dear? (Okay... I'll admit that I really don't expect anybody to have the "huevos" to answer that question honestly... but do try.)

1: It is as ubiquitous as sunlight.

2: Is two questions for the price of one! They would be here to show appreciation to the maker of the finest triple chocolate trifle this side of Andromeda..... Me!!

3: N/A. I am of course infallible

 

[Postmaster]

UFOs and religion is a joke to me.. If you’re going to use supernaturalism for religious purposes at least use something more useful like angels and God, which many say are observed in some way. I would be one to call that.

I do believe in unidentified flying objects. There is a small percentage that really are unexplainable, however we haven’t the foggiest what they are. Natural atmospheric phenomenon or maybe they are unique life to our own planet? It’s elaborate to say that they are extraterrestrials and even more to say they are superior to us and well more elaborate to say they are part of our spritual development.

 

[Ahanu]

1. The founder of the Baha'i Faith says that life exists on other planets. Personally I think that evolution could happen the same way here as it does on other planets in nearby solar systems. Maybe one planet had a couple of million years headstart in developing complex life, and, at this very moment, these beings far surpass us in intelligence.

2. No, they would not believe in the same God. When I use the term "believe," I usually have certain words or phrases to box God into in order to have a belief about It. We think in our own language. We believe with the language that is available to us. Usually people of different religions dissect and separate God in this way. For example, to be saved and believe in Jesus Christ or any other Manifestation of God may have no importance to these alien lifeforms. Assuming we could feel in the same way, maybe it would be better to say we feel the same It, so according to our spiritual capacity, we describe the same God since we are also assuming we could verbally communicate with them? Baha'i speculation there.

3. I believe in UFOs, but I do not believe that the ones supposedly witnessed on earth were piloted by aliens or any little green men! Show me the evidence. To answer your question, I will take a look at death, for instance. Current empirical evidence from neuroscience, I believe, suggests that death is it. However, nobody knows the meaning of quantum physics. I suppose I ignore the empirical evidence by looking over the horizon for something that will support my belief. It is not a God of the gaps theory, I think. I just don't think there is enough evidence, but maybe if you disagree, your simply interpreting that phrase as saying, "I'm ignoring the evidence."

 

[citizenzen]

I just don't think there is enough evidence, but maybe if you disagree, your simply interpreting that phrase as saying, "I'm ignoring the evidence."

What I'm really trying to get at here is once some people set their minds to how the world is, based on religious dogma (or delusion), they'll cling to that "reality" no matter how much evidence demonstrates otherwise.

Young Earthers don't accept the fact that this planet has been around for more than 6000 years. Many fundamentalists refuse to accept evolution. It doesn't matter how much evidence piles up against their view, they simply refuse to accept it. I find that incredibly interesting. Most of us cling to preconceived notions, but most of us when presented with enough evidence are able to admit we were wrong and change our minds to fit the facts.

I don't think God exists as a "person" like many Christians do. I don't believe that Jesus died for my sins. But given enough evidence, I'd change my mind and accept this as fact. How does it serve us to deny what is right in front of our very eyes?

 

[shawn]

I think life exists everywhere.

There is a force of "LIFE" which permeates everything and all manner of forms arise as a result of this.

UFO's are a curiousity as there are many recorded accounts of sightings prior to the industrial age.
So this gives rise to the speculation that there are some form of interactions with technologically advanced beings who have passed through our neighborhood.
They probably took one look at our planet of 'tards and decided that interaction was to be avoided except for "at a distance".

Many of the modern UFO sightings are modern military craft. Period.
They aren't in the habit of going around and showing off their newest generation of top secret flying gizmo's.
We have to wait for several decades for that info to be declassified.
And by then they will have even more advanced gizmo's.
Why is that hard for people to wrap their minds around.

They tend to use the alien ufo ideas as disinformation to obscure the view into what they are up to even more.

 

[Netti-Netti]

I'd be interested in a link for a site that has compiled information on how consistent certain features of UFO encounters are.

 

[Ahanu]

Dimond's answer was an emphatic "no." Life, particularly intelligent life, could only exist on Earth, based on scripture that he cited.

Michael should check out the book of Ezekiel for a different interpretation.

10 Perhaps the earliest UFO sighting occurred in 1450 B.C., when Egyptians saw bright circles of light in the sky. Some UFO obsessives interpret Ezekiel: 1 in the Bible as a UFO report.

20 Things You Didn't Know About... Aliens | Extraterrestrial Life | DISCOVER Magazine

. . . so "bright circles of light in the sky" would be one "consistent" feature.

 

[arthra]

What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

As Ahanu mentioned we Baha'is believe there is life on other worlds..based on what Baha'u'llah revealed..

My own understanding also is that man is not restricted to this earth.. that tehre are other worlds where "man" exists..though he may not be in the current forms we have on earth..

But from the beginning which has no beginning, to the end which has no end, a Perfect Manifestation always exists. This Man of Whom we speak is not every man; we mean the Perfect Man. For the noblest part of the tree is the fruit, which is the reason of its existence. If the tree had no fruit, it would have no meaning. Therefore, it cannot be imagined that the worlds of existence, whether the stars or this earth, ...were without man!

Also I posit God unlike my friend Ahanu that they would believe in the same God.. There's an essay by Duane Troxel that explores some of this at

Intelligent Life in the Universe and Exotheology in Christianity and the Baha'i Writings

- Art

 

[citizenzen]

Also I posit God unlike my friend Ahanu that they would believe in the same God...

I'm with you artha. It has to be the same God otherwise that would mean God isn't infinite and all pervasive. Monotheism doesn't mean that you just believe in one God, it means that only one God exists. It doesn't matter what corner of the universe you occupy, the one God is there too.

As for life on other planets, it is inevitable. The mathematics is simply overwhelmingly in favor of it. It seems the height of conceit to suggest that we alone inhabit the universe.

 

[path_of_one]

1. What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

2. Imagine (the unlikely scenario) that aliens landed on the Earth and completely overwhelmed us with their superior intellect, technology and spiritual development. If they believed in a God, would it be the same one you believe in? If they didn't have any notion of Jesus Christ, would they be saved?

3. In what ways do you ignore and dismiss empirical evidence in order that you not disturb or challenge the beliefs that you hold so dear? (Okay... I'll admit that I really don't expect anybody to have the "huevos" to answer that question honestly... but do try.)

I'm coming in late to the conversation, but figured I'd answer before reading on... so it's uninfluenced.

1. Life undoubtedly exists in other worlds. Statistically, it seems impossible that it would not. My religious beliefs really have nothing to do with it, but since I believe God is infinitely creative and loving, it kind of makes sense that there would be many living beings throughout the universe/multiverse.

2. If aliens landed, I wouldn't expect them to have the same ideas about God any more than we humans agree on ideas about God. Since we don't have unified ideas about God in our own species, I can't imagine other beings would have ones matching any of the ones we know in humanity. There's a lot of variety in what is possible to believe about God, and since I believe God is infinite and any manifest/incarnate being (human or not) is finite, there's bound to be limitations in understanding and conceptualization. As for Christ, not a clue. I believe all humanity is saved by the grace of God (the Christ) that was made manifest in Jesus. I don't believe that one's beliefs about that salvation has much to do with it. I believe the grace of God is for all beings, human and not, so it would cover the aliens. I have no idea if they'd need a Jesus manifestation though. Jesus manifested as fully divine and fully human, healing a sort of rift or separation between humanity and the Divine. Perhaps some other sentient beings would be more unified with God and not need a manifestation of God's grace to show the way to a bunch of them.

3. I think every person has assumptions and privileges some sort of information over others. We have to. It's how our minds function and don't totally implode with too much data.

I try very hard to take into account empirical evidence, but I fully confess that for my own spiritual-religious beliefs, I privilege my own experience of the Divine and other beings as primary and then add with what I can find out from others... including data and new ways of thinking about that data. Sometimes my beliefs change and sometimes they don't, depending on whether I think someone else is misinterpreting or missing "data" (such as the experiences I've had) or whether I think my own beliefs are more useful to me, even if they are incorrect. In terms of spirituality, I'm not so much concerned with accuracy as usefulness. Because of this, my ideas or beliefs can be transitory even though I believe the journey toward enlightenment or embodying my salvation/deliverance is permanent.

Basically, I think every person is biased, me included. I think the important question is do we recognize our biases and can we separate useful bias from harmful bias.

 

[eccles]

I shall begin by stating that I am Atheist, former Roman Catholic. It was my study of science, especially Astronomy which brought me to the conclusion that there was no god/creator.

Do I believe in UFOs. If you regard them as purely Unidentified Flying Objects, Yes. If you regard them as spacecraft with intelligent beings from outer space, no.

I believe there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. The building blocks of life are everywhere in the Universe. All they need is a suitable Planet to land on to evolve into high forms of life.

I believe in Einstein's General and Special Theories meaning that NOTHING of any mass can exceed the speed of light. Until it is proven otherwise and I doubt if it will be, no intelligent beings can travel the vast distances in a reasonable time. UFO sightings have been reported really after 1947. If intelligent beings were to land on Earth, they would seek out the Earth's leadership and not waste time landing in remote areas. The lawn of the White House would be the most likely place for a landing. Just as well Geo Dubya is no longer there. Any alien intelligence examining him would conclude that Earth has no intelligent life and not stick around.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I shall begin by stating that I am Atheist, former Roman Catholic. It was my study of science, especially Astronomy which brought me to the conclusion that there was no god/creator.

Im curious what it was in your study of Astronomy that disproved God?

 

[Faithfulservant]

1. What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

2. Imagine (the unlikely scenario) that aliens landed on the Earth and completely overwhelmed us with their superior intellect, technology and spiritual development. If they believed in a God, would it be the same one you believe in? If they didn't have any notion of Jesus Christ, would they be saved?

3. In what ways do you ignore and dismiss empirical evidence in order that you not disturb or challenge the beliefs that you hold so dear? (Okay... I'll admit that I really don't expect anybody to have the "huevos" to answer that question honestly... but do try.)

1 I think we are the only humans.. based on scripture Angels (messengers of God) outnumber all of humans in creation. The descriptions in the bible tells us theres more than one kind of Angel so who knows how many there are and where they live whether it be on other planets or in my mind I think they live in different dimensions. God created time so who knows what else hes done.. the bible only tells us what He wants us to know at this given time. Im looking forward to solving the mystery later or having the mystery be solved for me.

2 I think "aliens" have been landing on earth for sometime. I dont think they are godly I think everything they say is a lie. Check out the testimonials on alienresistance.org. rather than blow them off as being slightly crazy ... notice the similiarities to their stories.. then maybe start researching other sites with other stories.

3 what evidence are you talking about? If I knew then I could tell you. I truly do believe that God has an answer for everything whether He chooses to reveal it when we want Him to is His choice and how arrogant we can be to demand it from Him. Thats where faith steps in.. God tells us in the bible to trust Him and fear not. So thats what I do. I also believe that someday I will have the mind of Christ and know all ... that tells me that someday I will know all the answers. Its part of the package.. patience.

 

[citizenzen]

I think "aliens" have been landing on earth for sometime. I dont think they are godly I think everything they say is a lie.

What do the aliens say? I don't recall reading any of their quotes.

Check out the testimonials on alienresistance.org. rather than blow them off as being slightly crazy ... notice the similiarities to their stories.. then maybe start researching other sites with other stories.

FS, the UFO/Alien legend has been around long enough for everybody to know the story. They repeat the same story in order to legitimize their experience amongst others who also believe. If I say that I was kidnapped by small gray beings with big eyes, I'm an alien abductee. If I say that I was kidnapped by pink brains with octopus-like tentacles, I'm a nut-job who should be put away.

Once legends become commonly known, then the stories fall into the accepted pattern. I've never heard of a sighting of a 4 foot-tall bigfoot. Do you suppose they're born 8 feet tall?

 

[Faithfulservant]

What do the aliens say? I don't recall reading any of their quotes.



FS, the UFO/Alien legend has been around long enough for everybody to know the story. They repeat the same story in order to legitimize their experience amongst others who also believe. If I say that I was kidnapped by small gray beings with big eyes, I'm an alien abductee. If I say that I was kidnapped by pink brains with octopus-like tentacles, I'm a nut-job who should be put away.

Once legends become commonly known, then the stories fall into the accepted pattern. I've never heard of a sighting of a 4 foot-tall bigfoot. Do you suppose they're born 8 feet tall?

You asked a question and I answered the question then you belittle me for my answer. I really think you are an ass that has nothing else better to do than post on various forums because you need to make yourself feel better by making other people feel bad. you are a bully..

sorry brian for this personal attack but I had to stick up for myself.

 

[citizenzen]

You asked a question and I answered the question then you belittle me for my answer.

How did I belittle you?

Don't worry about the personal attack. That's like water off a duck's back.

 

[sunyatasamsara]

I would guess there are at least 3000-5000 species of aliens more advanced than us in our galaxy alone. I got that number from some scientists who made an equation.

 

[Thomas]

My questions:

1. What are your thoughts on life on other worlds and how your religious beliefs influence your opinion as to its existence.

My religious beliefs don't influence my opinions in this issue ... science does.

From a scientific viewpoint however, I do challenge the Copernican view that the universe/s are essentially the same, and the distribution of stuff is the generally the same throughout, which would therefore infer that the chances of life evolving are the same, everywhere, in effect that it's almost a given that life must exist elsewhere.

However, that assumption is challenged by recent scientific findings (according to New Scientist) that suggests that the distribution is not equal, at least, not equal enough for people to assert that the same general conditions that prevail here must prevail elsewhere, and that we don't know enough about the universe/s to make such assumptions based on anything but faith.

Furthermore, articles and opinions argue that for a whole host of reasons earth is 'just right' for life, not too big, not too small, not too far, not too near ... tektonic plate movement as a necessary prerequisite ... and to suppose that life will evolve on other planets that match the precise 'just right' criteria is also itself something of a leap of faith.

In fact, people who argue science against religion often argue that across the millenia there have been so many astounding 'flukes' and 'chances' along the way in the development of this solar system, this planet, organic life, humanity, etc. etc, as to render the odds against the emergence of human life as almost incalculable ... yet the same people will argue that life 'must' occur elsewhere, which argues that such 'flukes' and 'chances' would have to be common, if not the norm ...

My jury is still out on that one ...

2. Imagine (the unlikely scenario) that aliens landed on the Earth and completely overwhelmed us with their superior intellect, technology and spiritual development. If they believed in a God, would it be the same one you believe in? If they didn't have any notion of Jesus Christ, would they be saved?

Well, I think that presupposes a number of questions. Superior technology (space flight) does not presuppose superior intellect, so I would challenge the idea that a technologically advanced people will be any more intellectually and/or spiritually advanced than us. Does not the evidence we have to hand suggest otherwise?

So I would say this scenario is more unlikely than the scenario in which the first alien off the spaceship is wearing a crucifix ...

... then again, on that principle, I would suggest that aliens who do believe in God would hold to the idea of 'distinction' and 'union', and thus hold an idea of 'salvation' and 'loss'?

In what ways do you ignore and dismiss empirical evidence in order that you not disturb or challenge the beliefs that you hold so dear? (Okay... I'll admit that I really don't expect anybody to have the "huevos" to answer that question honestly... but do try.)

I don't ignore nor dismiss any empirical evidence, as I work on the axiom that empirical evidence does not have any bearing on the questions I'm asking.

That you think it does means you're asking the wrong questions, or looking to find the answers to the right questions in the wrong place.

One simple 'fact' is that if man is to be truly 'free', then the last thing he wants is empirical evidence of the proof of God, because then only a fool would refuse to believe in the face of the evidence ...

And again, if you can provide me with the equation or whatever empirical data you have to determine precisely why person A will fall in love with person B, or why some fall in love instantaneously, and others over a period of time; how a person can love one child, then love two equally and yet no more nor no less than he or she loved just the one ... how to write poetry (not doggrel) or compose sublime musical scores ... questions like that should demonstrate that empiricism isn't the answer to everything.

If life were purely a matter of common sense, which is what empiricism is, then it would be awfully drab, don't you think?

Thomas

 

[wil]

I was searching for the statement by a Catholic Priest a number of years ago that said regarding life elsewhere and aliens possibly having inhabited earth...something to the effect of the possibility of the Garden of Eden being on another planet...

But alas could not find it, but did find this.
Belief in aliens not necessarily against the faith, Vatican official says