seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Actually, I would say that we humans are the reason why we are fighting endlessly...
S
soleil10
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Citizen, God is present in every breath you take.
Without God's energy, you would not be able to even breath.
Great idea citizen !Communism killed 70 million people in the Soviet, 67 million in China, 3 million in Cambodia and 10 million in other places.
In order for 150 million people to be killed in 60 years, 44 people need to be Killed every 10 minutes.
Citizen, can I talk to my spouse, my kids or my neighbors about God or is it prohibited in your society?
You are rewriting history big time. Ex:Martin Luther King was a pastor. Religions have been responsible for great advancement in society and also for stopping progress and worse.
The Founders emphasized religious principles, the "self evident" truths, as the foundation of our nation. They saw religion as absolutely necessary for our form of government to operate properly. Religion provided the virtues. ..the cultural consensus, the national morality. ..that was essential for liberty. It was essential because freedom necessitated a virtuous populace to willingly practice the discipline required for a functional self-government to occur.
This is why John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Benjamin Rush, a member of the Continental Congress and a signer of the Declaration of Independence was equally emphatic, “The only foundation for a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.“
There is no question that it was the Founders' Christian faiths that brought them to these universal truths about liberty and equality. But it was also the idea of "civil religion," as expressed by the 18th century French philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau. Rousseau believed that "There is a profession of faith which is purely civil. . . not strictly as religious dogmas but as expressions of social conscience without which it is impossible to be a good citizen"
Our “ideals and set of values” as President Obama refers to them, in the Founders' view were not the doctrines of personal Christian faith but were, rather, transcendent principles, “self-evident truths” that were rooted in a public affirmation of God, the Creator, from which we received the endowment of “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I do not believe the Founders' would have asserted that it was only the Christian religion from which could be derived the transcendent principles of good citizenship. In a letter to the President of Yale, shortly before his death, Benjamin Franklin articulated an overview of what he considered the essential principles of a sound religion.
In doing so, he gives us an insight into the Founders' views on religion. They spoke in terms of common principles of faith around which believers could unite in the interest of the well-being of the nation. Franklin's letter to Ezra Stiles is a fine example of that view.
The Christian religion, to its good credit, was the avenue by which the Founders, themselves, discovered those values, but they never asserted any particular religion as the exclusive channel to those principles. They are available to all and are, therefore, "self evident" . . . even those who profess no faith can resonate with virtues that "without which it is impossible to be a good citizen."
In that respect, those that say "we are not a Christian nation". . . are correct. However, when it is then further asserted that the Founders were only seeking to establish a secular society and saw no public role for religion in the affairs of the nation, this would be entirely not correct. It is especially a problem today when virtually all religious influence is to be separated from the "State," on the one hand while, on the other hand, "The State" keeps expanding.
Today, separating church and state, means also separating traditional virtue from an exclusively secular and expanding State. This was the very circumstance that religious freedom was supposed to prevent.
Kevin McCarthy (The Master Plan)
citizenzen
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When have I suggested a prohibition of God? As Thomas Paine said in the Rights of Man, the relationship between any person and their God is a Natural Law and therefore existed outside the boundaries of any government.
Nobody can read your thoughts or divine the relationship you have with God. Our Founding Fathers understood this and wisely chose to not extend civil law into this arena in an attempt to control or influence what is inside our hearts and minds.
You are absolutely free to worship your God as you please. You are free to talk about your God to your spouse, your children, and your neighbors.
I completely agree. There is ample evidence of how much they valued religion in their lives and in society. But they had an opportunity when they created this nation to look at other nations and history to see what models of government worked and which didn't. And they saw how problematic it was to meld both government and religion. I quoted specific incidences of this: Spain and the Inquisition being one that the FFs did not want to repeat.
Again, I completely agree. They understood the scope of faith and were careful not to narrow it to one or the other. Again, this confirms my point. Bless you.
And here we'll quibble a bit. They absolutely saw a public role for religion and they saw that role being carried out by the individual and the church, not by the government. Now because our government is made up of the people it cannot be expected that religion won't influence laws and governmental practices. I would never ask that anyone serving in the government leave their religion by the doorstep. It is a fundamental part of who they are.
So if Congress holds a convocation, I don't care. When president after president talks about God and asks that "God bless America." I don't care. I only become concerned when we try to legislate God, or a specific faith into law that is intended to govern citizens who don't all share that faith. This has been a constant battle and one I will vigilantly fight against.
Again, I'll disagree. Most people want government to be as small as possible, to have a role and impact our lives minimally, to allow each person to live as they see fit, and I think for over 200 years our government has managed to do that pretty well.
It's hard for me to understand your complaint. Virtually every politician is religious and talks about the importance of religion and God. You have the freedom to attend any church, practice any faith. You can be as pious and devout as you want. Religion, and especially Christianity is a huge part of our popular culture. It gets constant exposure through radio, television, movies, books and music.
All of this is evidence that we have religious freedom.
What do you see missing here Soleil?
S
soleil10
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Like I wrote, I love to be wrong on this one but my antenna tells me, this recession is different.
It will require a spiritual transformation to get out of it.
Even Obama will have to rethink many of his humanist values and fall on his knees.
China Cat Sunflower
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Did you forget to attribute this?
Bobby Jindal's Big Night and the Future of Religious Conservatives in the GOP - God & Country (usnews.com)
Chris
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Again we agree! This is without a doubt the worst economy that I've seen in my 48 years. The amount of debt that individuals and the nation is saddled with is mind-blowing. On top of it all, you add global warming and the damage it will inflict on lives and property and I think we can kiss the good-old days goodbye at least for my lifetime.
I think we'll have to differ as to the cause. Do you see this as God's punishment? Has he traded in frogs and locusts for real estate bubbles and financial speculation?
How much and in what form would we need to repent to regain God's favor?
S
soleil10
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Hi Chris, I did not get it from there.
I cant recall at the moment but once it comes back to me, I will let you know.
S
soleil10
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God does not punish us per se. We punish ourselves through the consequences of our actions.
America received many blessings. Many people sacrificed for this country.To those whom a lot is given, a lot is expected.
The condition made by the pilgrims who wanted to create a nation with God at the center of their life, was received by God. He blessed it in the name of all of us.
This is what I mean by covenant. God is leaving America. The ACLU is making sure that there is no public religious symbol left anywhere in the name of the new secular religion.
God has become a 4 letter word in the West.
At what point will our people wake up or are we like the frog in the boiling water incapable to jump out.
SG, I didn't get your point when I first read it but now I do, thanks for your observation.
I just don't understand the lack mentality. Is it a marketing ploy trying to take the part of the victim, woe is me I need a entitlement program?
We've gone from the sky is falling, the end is near, repent... when we didn't buy that we've found a new tactic...they are all out to get us.
I get told all the time I am not a Christian despite my beliefs in Jesus and G!d...but I got to say this trend is just embarrassing and like others is the real cause for the flock leaving to find greener pasteurs.
