Approaching Islam

Snugglepuff said:
I will look at both sides. No religion is innocent. However, I am a pretty liberal myself... so I may come to the same conclusions as them.

The thing is history can ge glorified or de-glorified by either side so neither you nor I can know the truth as we were never there.
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well best of Luck ;)

I suggest that you also pray to God about it :)
 
Snugglepuff said:
It sounds more and more interesting, the more replies I get.
I am lookin forward to it and to asking lots of questions on it...l
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To get perspective, you might want to talk to Muslims in person... preferably someone who was raised with Islam. I think verbal exchange on the Internets has serious limitations as a source of information. There's way too much background noise.
 
GlorytoGod said:
how many do you know ?
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Ok, this is a question on the Islam board - let's try and avoid proselytising, thanks. :)

Someone has dared to ask an honest question about the topic, but rather than be allowed to ask, some people have dared to ignore the topic and simply try and decide someone's mind for them.

I'm sure we can do better than this. :)
 
I said:
Ok, this is a question on the Islam board - let's try and avoid proselytising, thanks. :)

Someone has dared to ask an honest question about the topic, but rather than be allowed to ask, some people have dared to ignore the topic and simply try and decide someone's mind for them.

I'm sure we can do better than this. :)
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I'm pretty much ignoring those who aren't really answering my question... no point really :p
 
I said:
Ok, this is a question on the Islam board - let's try and avoid proselytising, thanks. :)
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hey I am not doing that, I think you are mistaken :confused:

Someone has dared to ask an honest question about the topic, but rather than be allowed to ask, some people have dared to ignore the topic and simply try and decide someone's mind for them.

I'm sure we can do better than this. :)
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I have suggested that Snugglepuff investigates a couple of important topics regarding Islam, whats wrong with that ?
 
GlorytoGod said:
care to name them ?
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OK here goes:

Zeus - obvious one
Cernunnos - Celtic antlered God
Pan - God of herds and male sexuality
Osiris - God of regeration
Mars - God of defence
Anubis - God of the Underworld
There's your God also
Horus - God of day and night
Set - God of the moon and thunder
Thoth - God of magic
Angus - Celtic God of love
Belenos - Celtic Sun God
Dagda - Irish God - embodies natural life cycles and urges
Mithras - God of light
Thor - God of Thunder
Odin - God of magic
Nuada - another Sun God
Lugh - another Sun God
Dionysus - God of wine
Uranus - God of the Heavens

There we are... if you look outside Christianity there are some very interesting deities. Whether they exist or not, is debatable, but then so is the existence of every God.

If you're interested you should pop in to the Pagan forum from time to time :p
 
I said:
That's a pretty unhelpful comment, Tao - brings the tone of the thread down to a gutter level. Someone's asked for information, but all you've provided is disengaged base cynicism.

If you want to provide some historical references that may be useful for illustrating the development of Islam and/or the Quran, I'm sure that would be welcome.
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Snugglepuff said:
Yeah, that comment wasn't exactly helpful, Tao, in fact, let's be honest, that was full of prejudiced cr*p. That's basically the tripe that everyone comes out with when they havent got a clue as to what the religion is about i.e. what I'm trying to avoid.

I was looking for advice (advice being the operative word) on approaching the religion.
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But is it prejudiced crap? Or is it the straight unadulterated facts? I am in no doubt which it is. Then again truth is rarely helpful when looking at religions.
 
Snugglepuff said:
OK here goes:

Zeus - obvious one
Cernunnos - Celtic antlered God
Pan - God of herds and male sexuality
Osiris - God of regeration
Mars - God of defence
Anubis - God of the Underworld
There's your God also
Horus - God of day and night
Set - God of the moon and thunder
Thoth - God of magic
Angus - Celtic God of love
Belenos - Celtic Sun God
Dagda - Irish God - embodies natural life cycles and urges
Mithras - God of light
Thor - God of Thunder
Odin - God of magic
Nuada - another Sun God
Lugh - another Sun God
Dionysus - God of wine
Uranus - God of the Heavens

There we are... if you look outside Christianity there are some very interesting deities. Whether they exist or not, is debatable, but then so is the existence of every God.

If you're interested you should pop in to the Pagan forum from time to time :p
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LOL what I was getting at is how many do you know, not how many have you heard of.
 
GlorytoGod said:
LOL what I was getting at is how many do you know, not how many have you heard of.
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Who says they're not ones I know... don't forget I do come under the Pagan umbrella.... paganism is generally a pantheistic religion.
 
Tao_Equus said:
But is it prejudiced crap? Or is it the straight unadulterated facts? I am in no doubt which it is. Then again truth is rarely helpful when looking at religions.
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Produce the 'unadulterated facts' with valid sources then I might think you have a point.
 
l studied a bit of islam for a religious studies course and one thing that stood out for me with regards to the emphasis on arabic was that the actual written language was developed via the quran; previously it was the poets who had the upper hand/authority in oral lingiustics/prophecy.

Arabic poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hence the preponderance and elaboration of the script adorning all objects/architecture [still considered the sacred word as like the other abrahamic religions]. like judaism the script writers were given a high status in calligraphy due to their occupation as merit was accrued in doing so; as is now reciting the quran in its original language considered meritious, an act of devotion.

unfortunately very early on there was acrimony. after the prophets death the succession of leadership [it was a tribal society] passed on to his wife's father, abu bakr, rather than his cousin and son in law ali, who eventually did get elected; but he was betrayed by his followers [seceders] and assassinated hence the sorry state of division within islam between sunnis and shia's [who hold a belief in a hidden imam who will return like an awaited messiah at the end of time, much like some jewish/christian thought]. this is why shia's celebrate 'martydom' at the massacre of kerbala where ali's younger brother hussein dies at the hands of the caliphate now based in syria, as a form of redemption [hence the flaggelation with chains].

whereas sunni believes in no speculation on g#ds nature, only to follow commands [taqlid], the shia [imam] doctrines allowed more speculations [ijtihad] developing an inner/outer hermeneutics [hence a flourishing of sufism and a doctrine of dissimulation-taqiya- hiding their allegience to the hidden imam].
 
nativeastral said:
l studied a bit of islam for a religious studies course and one thing that stood out for me with regards to the emphasis on arabic was that the actual written language was developed via the quran; previously it was the poets who had the upper hand/authority in oral lingiustics/prophecy.

Arabic poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hence the preponderance and elaboration of the script adorning all objects/architecture [still considered the sacred word as like the other abrahamic religions]. like judaism the script writers were given a high status in calligraphy due to their occupation as merit was accrued in doing so; as is now reciting the quran in its original language considered meritious, an act of devotion.

unfortunately very early on there was acrimony. after the prophets death the succession of leadership [it was a tribal society] passed on to his wife's father, abu bakr, rather than his cousin and son in law ali, who eventually did get elected; but he was betrayed by his followers [seceders] and assassinated hence the sorry state of division within islam between sunnis and shia's [who hold a belief in a hidden imam who will return like an awaited messiah at the end of time, much like some jewish/christian thought]. this is why shia's celebrate 'martydom' at the massacre of kerbala where ali's younger brother hussein dies at the hands of the caliphate now based in syria, as a form of redemption [hence the flaggelation with chains].

whereas sunni believes in no speculation on g#ds nature, only to follow commands [taqlid], the shia [imam] doctrines allowed more speculations [ijtihad] developing an inner/outer hermeneutics [hence a flourishing of sufism and a doctrine of dissimulation-taqiya- hiding their allegience to the hidden imam].
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See, keep learning new things. I didn't know there was a divide. Hmm... seems that this will be more complicated...

Alot of people trust in the translations of the Christian bible but surely, like the Qur'an, with the original language it was written in, surely there are mistranslations??
 
Snugglepuff said:
Produce the 'unadulterated facts' with valid sources then I might think you have a point.
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I do not have to, (and i am sure no one here really wants to see me start over on this again), since you intend buying a koran anyway. It is all in there.
 
Snugglepuff said:
Alot of people trust in the translations of the Christian bible but surely, like the Qur'an, with the original language it was written in, surely there are mistranslations??
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The Koran was compiled by Uthman a century after the death of Muhammad. He, like Muhammad, was a ruthless tribal warlord well aware of how Constantine had usurped Christian monotheism to political ends. The many, many glaring contradictions and worse, abrogations contained within the Koran show it to be about as credible in authorship as the bible. IE, not credible at all as an authentic script.
 
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