Angels and DarkAngels

Netti-Netti said:
Ahh. But according to Steinsaltz, destructive angels have a function in the scheme of things. An angel would not need to be "fallen" or autonomous to serve in this capacity. They are simply servants. Tempting humans appears to be a G-d-intended function.
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Why would free-will only be limited to mankind, and not to other creations? This line of reasoning regarding no free-will to intelligent creations could then easily be extended to mankind.
 
Dream said:
Angels are like something between past & future, like the 'Present'. If you really want to know what 'Now' is, you're at a loss because all you can know is the past not the present or future. You might even guess the future, but the Present is elusive, totally out of our control. The present may even be just an idea that we have to help us keep from panicking. Angels are like that, too. Does that help? :p
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Yeah, I wasn't necessarily implying they exist. I am becoming more and more convinced that religion and all it's concepts were simply created because we need to feel like there's someone watching us. Sometimes, people need that thought to keep themselves going.

I think I was disputing whether angels are that beautiful, helpful, guiding hand or are they just like people with the ability to choose good or evil (let's not get into debating those concepts lol), in a theoretical sense of course. Like I said,depends on whether you believe in them or not. I find them an interesting topic to discuss.
 
GlorytoGod said:
as far as I know the Bible is the best authority we have regarding Angels, so take it or leave it, up to you :eek:

and in your own words

:eek:
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I don't think the Bible is the best authority. I think the best authority is people who experience angels; those who feel the feelings, whether it be smell, touch, light, emotion. They are the ones who attribute that to being an angelic experience. They define the common opinion that angels are helpful. Not all instances of angels in the Bible are so.
 
Snugglepuff said:
I don't think the Bible is the best authority.
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where do you think the mythology of Angels comes from ?

as far as I know it is from the Bible.

I think the best authority is people who experience angels; those who feel the feelings, whether it be smell, touch, light, emotion. They are the ones who attribute that to being an angelic experience. They define the common opinion that angels are helpful. Not all instances of angels in the Bible are so.
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there are loads of crazy people in the world and lots of people have crazy experiences but if these alleged Angelic experiences don't fit with the Biblical paradigm ie where the mythology comes from then they are probably not Angelic experiences more likely demonic or something else entirely :eek:
 
GlorytoGod said:
where do you think the mythology of Angels comes from ?

as far as I know it is from the Bible.



there are loads of crazy people in the world and lots of people have crazy experiences but if these alleged Angelic experiences don't fit with the Biblical paradigm ie where the mythology comes from then they are probably not Angelic experiences more likely demonic or something else entirely :eek:
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Could you tell me why you think that the Bible is the first source to account for angels?? Any dates to say that this was the first?
In fact, with some brief research on the internet, the earliest references to angels are from the Sumerians in 3000BC - before the Bible was written.

There are indeed some crazy people in the world but there are also those who aren't who have claimed to have had an angelic experience.
And for what reason, do you think that an angelic experience has to conform to the Bible. Everyone's experiences in life are different, everyones experiences in religion are different, so why should things related to religion have to conform??

I highly doubt that if someone was 'touched' by a demon, in your sense of the word, they would attribute that to angels.
 
I admit that my own experiences suggest that there are angels but do not really know for sure. I am serious when I say that I do not know what they are, and they leave no proof. 'Elusives' might be a better word than 'Angels'.
 
Dream said:
I am serious when I say that I do not know what they are, and they leave no proof.
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If they leave no proof, how do you "know" what they are? What evidence does your knowledge rely upon?
 
Dream said:
17th can take care of himself! We play slap-jack all the time.
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Lol, I know. You really think I'd take him seriously?? I thought the winking smiley indicated I had deduced that butit'shard to convey emotions online lol
 
citizenzen said:
If they leave no proof, how do you "know" what they are? What evidence does your knowledge rely upon?
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I guess our experience of an angel depends on our own personal interpretation of it. The common denominator seems to be a protective feel, sudden feelings of elation in times of great unhappiness. Those feelings generally seem to sum up an angelic experience of sorts.

So angelic experiences aren't necessarily fact. It's just the feel that you get. Have you never had that citizenzen?? x
 
Snugglepuff said:
The common denominator seems to be a protective feel, sudden feelings of elation in times of great unhappiness.
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Some people get that from a puff of pot, a shot of whiskey, or even listening to a nice tune.

You'll need to do better than that.
 
citizenzen said:
Some people get that from a puff of pot, a shot of whiskey, or even listening to a nice tune.

You'll need to do better than that.
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Without the need for drugs or alcohol. Like when someone is at a dying relatives bedside and they suddenly feel like there is a protective presence in the room-I believe PRESENCE was the word I missed out.

I'm talking about situations where people aren't medically insane, intoxicated, inebriated or listening to some "nice tune". When circumstances such as car accidents or in times of grief and they suddenly feel this.

It has been argued that such definitions could be attributed to the hype about them. But what about instances when there were no hypes.

It's not something you can define as such, which is what I think you are trying to do. It's a personal experience and some people attribute that experience to angels.

I feel as if this is detracting from the original question but I'm all for mini tangents.
 
Snugglepuff said:
It's not something you can define as such, which is what I think you are trying to do. It's a personal experience and some people attribute that experience to angels.
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Sure, people feel something "different" and explain it as angels.

That's not dwelling in mystery. That's not open-mindedness.

That's filling a gap with folklore in order to feel better about themselves or some circumstance. I get that.
 
citizenzen said:
Sure, people feel something "different" and explain it as angels.

That's not dwelling in mystery. That's not open-mindedness.

That's filling a gap with folklore in order to feel better about themselves or some circumstance. I get that.
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Lol, that could apply to all religion. If you look at it all from an atheistic point of view, the whole concept of religion is people dwelling in mystery, filling a gap in order to feel safer and as if their life has more importance than other animals on the planet.

People BELIEVE in angels just like they believe in RELIGION; to those people angels are just as real as God or their Gods. People FEEL God around them, they talk to him as if he is a real being in the room. It's the same concept.

Surely you claiming that believing in angels is "dwelling in mystery", is not open-minded?
 
CZ, what I meant by no evidence is I was praying on my knees once, and I felt a hand on my shoulder for a moment. I looked around, but no one was nearby. Just one time, but I did not pray very often. I was really sad at the moment. Angels, or just my mind? Could be either.
 
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