They speak with forked tongue

[Azure24]

Hi, All

Now, I'm not really going to discuss this with you but...

Almost all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

• Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

• Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

• Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

• Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

• Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

• Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

• Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

• Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

• Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

• Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

• Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

• Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

• Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

• Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

• Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

• Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

• Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
  
  But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

• Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

• Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

• Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

• Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

• Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
  
  But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

• Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

• Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

• Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

• Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

• Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

• Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

• Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.

 

[GlorytoGod]

Hi, All

Now, I'm not really going to discuss this with you but...

Almost all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

• Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

• Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

• Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

• Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

• Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

• Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

• Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

• Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

• Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

• Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

• Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

• Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

• Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

• Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

• Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

• Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

• Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
  
  But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

• Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

• Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

• Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

• Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

• Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
  
  But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

• Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

• Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

• Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

• Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

• Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

• Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

• Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.

sorry if this sounds a bit rude, but seriously who gives a crap about what your interpretation of the bible is and your judgment of all christian scholars being wrong except for yourself of course who in your own eyes has it right where so many have it wrong, just sounds really arrogant to me

 

[immortalitylost]

• Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

*nods*

• Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

*nods again vigorously*

• Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Bazactly! You understand this, why no one else?!

• Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

• Rock on... Rock on...
  

• Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
  
  But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Wonderful tying the tree in. Lovely. You understand the concept of omnipotence! Go you!

• Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Not only that, but he knew this before he created the world.
*nods some more*

• Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

He doesn't have to save anything. He's already planned out what is going to happen to the world, he need not make any conscious effort unless that is part of his plan. Still. Awesome. Nice to know that people can come to the conclusions that I do. I'm not a nutter after all, phew.

• Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

I never get why people can't force themselves to believe that God can conceal the truth from people. I think they confuse it with lying...

• Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Woooh! There ya go. Agree with all, but not as much of an adversary as people make him out to be. Compared to God, the devil may as well not even have any power.

• Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.
  [*]

God doesn't have enemies. He created all, and all is as it should be with that creation. Still, you rock for even bringing most of this stuff up.

Some of the other things I can't totally agree with, and some I just didn't quote you on. But overall, very nice.

Thanks!

 

[wil]

sorry if this sounds a bit rude, but seriously who gives a crap about what your interpretation of the bible is and your judgment of all christian scholars being wrong except for yourself of course who in your own eyes has it right where so many have it wrong, just sounds really arrogant to me

Namaste GtG,

I was about to say, he didn't provide interpretations, he provided scripture and discussion points that he painstaking culled out of the bible for a discussion he indicated he wasn't ready to start...but did...

that was until

Hi, All

Now, I'm not really going to discuss this with you but...

Almost all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Namaste Auzure,

Eye've highlighted three words above. Eye believe two out of the three are lies. Actually Eye really believe all three are. First you say you (I'm) not really going to discuss, this...than why pray tell post it in a discussion forum. Is it your version of throwing one piece of bread in a puddle of ducks and watch them fight over it?

Second you say (I) present...but it is actually you that cut and paste correct?

Third you say (I) cite...where in reality someone else did the digging, someone else did the citing and you simply stole their discussion without providing any citation at all for others work.

I'm sure you've seen the discussions before, been around our cite long enough to know. We don't cut and paste without referencing.

Please discuss your reasons for posting, cite your references and honor those that spent hours digging through scripture to find these bits.

 

[immortalitylost]

I believe that azure was speaking of a situation where he/she was speaking to Christian theologians. So, the last two I's should make sense in that context. Not taking sides. Don't hurt me... lol. Just what I read. And I agree it's not nice throwing out a subject that you don't care enough about to comment any further on than the first post, and just watch everyone fight about the topic. Meanness...

See ya!

 

[Dream]

Anyway we are actually talking about Protestant seminarians. Protestant & Catholic theologians are as different as hockey from golf. Protestant theologians do not consider mysteries to be valuable, because the early reformers dogmatically taught that mystery=evil. Because of that, they are not able to consider looking into the mysteries, since to them mystery is evil. That was how the reformers demonized their Alma Mater, by calling them Babylon the woman of mysteries. It was a dirty trick. For Protestants, everything must be taken at face value. Catholic theologians think more about the mysteries, but they still talk as if there were no mysteries. This doubly conflicts with the Protestant theologians & laity who may have some trouble with understanding what they are talking about. So they are always going to be stuck circling round & round. The protestants not wanting to look any deeper, the catholics not wanting to talk about it, and folks like Azure who get stuck in the middle.

 

[Dondi]

• Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

But it doesn't say 'works'. it says 'whoesoever'. They are judged according to there works in verse 13, then cast into the lake of fire.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Evil in this context is speaking of calamady, not moral evil. God cannot be evil if He is good, or vice versa..

• Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

What if is God's Sovereign Will for man to have free will?

• Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Jesus died for the sin of every man. The offer is given, but will every man receive it? No.

• Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

I Corinthians 15 speaks about man's body being mortal. Jesus is the only one whose body has been raised to life, until the last trump.

Even so, the lost dead will be raised to shame and everlasting contempt (Dan 12:2)

• Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

I would like a reference for this claim, please.

• Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Adam and Eve were told that in the day they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would die. Yet Adam lived hundreds of years after to 930 years old. Maybe they died spiritually to God. (Ephesians 2:1, Colossians 2:13)

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Can you give me a reference for the former statement?

• Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

We were made to live in a body as humans. I Corinthians 15 states that this corruptable body will put on an incorruptable body, so I don't understand your premise.

• Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Back up a few verses:

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

So in Adam all [the firstfruits] die, so in Christ shall all [the firstfruits] be made alive. It's talking about all who have died in Christ (firstfruits) at that point. the following verse 23 still talks about the firstfruits, then those who are still alive in Christ at His coming.

• Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Perhaps the key word here is not 'aion -- age', but the word 'end', which is absent from the verses in Matthew 25.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

No one has ascended from the dead physically to be in the presence of God.

• Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Yet man continues to sin against God, is it God's will for man to sin? You've seen places in the Old Testament where God wanted a thing done, but someone disobeyed? Like Saul and the Amalekites (I Samuel 28:17-19), or Onan (Genesis 38:9-10). Yet God is able to raise others that will be willing to do His will.

• Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

See my comments concerning Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13 above.

• Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
  
  But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

The Jews do not regard the Apocropha as part of their scripture, why should we?

• Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

The drawing power of God is love.

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." - I John 4:9-10

• Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
  
  But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

I do not understand the premise. Could you not sin from the beginning and still be the biggest sinner?

• Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.
  
  But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Sleep [death] is a euphenism from the perspective of the living. From our view, a person who is dead isn't going to wake up. Apparently the soul is aware after death, as in the case of Samuel (I Samuel 28), before resurrection.

• Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

The first resurrection from the dead will experience an incorruptable body. But the second resurrection will experience spiritual death in the lake of fire, with a body where the fire never quenches and the worm never dies.

• Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Why should God save unbelievers?

• Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

When all is said and done, everyone will know that there is a God and acknowledge Him, whether they are a follower or not. Denial is not a river in hell.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Evil is anything that is good corrupted. The Tree only offered the temptation, man supplied the sin.

• Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Cite reference for the latter, please.

• Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

God's love never fails, but man's love does. You cannot force someone to love you.

• Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

I, for one, am dubious of those who speak in tongues in which there is no actual know language spoken, or no interpretation. Not saying it can't happen, but I haven't seen it in my life.

• Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Jesus was loosely quoting Isaiah 6:9-10 about the stubbornous of the people's hearts to hear. In the previous five chapters, Isaiah has been nothing but vocal to the people, warning them over and over, yet the people contunue to disobey. Parables are meant to get people to think, but it does no good if they do not wish to hear it.

• Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
  
  But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

No, but according to Hebrews 8:10, God will write it on the tablets of there hearts, rather than tablets of stone. We will be led of the Spirit.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Lucifer fell from his place in heaven due to pride. So what's the problem?

• Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
  
  But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

But we are not God, so we have no right to judge people.

 

[pattimax]

I think we are predestined for it.

 

[immortalitylost]

What if is God's Sovereign Will for man to have free will?

I think we are predestined for it.

If God is omniscient, and created man, he would have known before creating him the outcome of every decision that every human would face until the end of time. God made his entire creation knowing how it would unfold. When he had created it, he said that it was good. If he didn't want things to be the way that they are, he could have made them different, but he didn't.

We as people can only make decisions based on who we are, and he created us that way. If we do evil or good it is because of who we are, and God created us that way.

We have free will from our perspective, we make our own decisions, and steer the course of our own lives. But God, who created us, already knew the outcome of that course from his omniscient perspective before the beginning of his creation.

We both do and do not have free will.

I say that neither predestination or free will as concepts are entirely right.

I propose the free will paradox as stated above.

 

[immortalitylost]

Btw, I know that the post above is not technically relevant to the thread, but I've been dying to present it, and I figured that since azure seemed not to have some great vested interest in the thread, I could temporarily jack it.

See ya!