Abortion

And the prison thing, how could it be cheaper to furnish food clothing housing and basic medical care for the length of someones life than the compounds and equipment to terminate that life? I mean, I haven't studied it or anything, so you could be completely right, but where did you get the info on that? I'd like to look at it if that'd be ok.

- Do some research on this fact and a few of the others you have spouted and then u might realise some truths.
 
The modern abortion industry offers ritual blood sacrifice to the ancient abortion demon. It is in every way a demonic religion. It has its sacred dogma ("choice"), its ruling hierarchy (Planned Parenthood), its theologians (feminist ideologues), its sacrificing priesthood (abortionists), its temples (abortion mills), altars (surgical tables), ritual victims (primarily babies and secondarily women), acolytes and sacristans (clinic workers and death-scorts), congregations (all supporters of abortion) and its own unifying principle of sacramental "grace" (money). In short, the abortion industry is a perfect demonic system which offers a perverse form of worship to the devil.

The sacrificial victim in this demonic religion is not a brute animal as was offered to the Old Testament God of Israel in a legitimate system of religious sacrifices. In abortion, the victim is an innocent human being who is made in the "image and likeness of God" and who can never defend herself. This combination of innocence, parental participation and ritualized obliteration of the visage of God in human form is the devil’s way of blaspheming the Father with the misguided participation of God’s own children. The systematic destruction of the human body which St. Paul calls "the temple of the Holy Spirit" is a blasphemous insult to God. If the abortion business is not truly demonic, nothing is.
 
In abortion, the victim is an innocent human being who is made in the "image and likeness of God" and who can never defend herself.
You are running with a completely unreal notion of what an embryo is. An embryo is "innocent" in the same sense that a rock is innocent: doing nothing wrong because of an utter inability to "do" anything. I do not believe that God is an insensate blob of matter, and so the notion that an embryo is "in the image and likeness of God" is a blasphemy. And asking whether an embryo "can" defend itself takes for granted that an embryo would "want" to: but an embryo does not yet have any capacity to "want" anything. Is a rock being injured if it is crushed to powder? The matter does not care, and would as soon be in the powdered state as in any other, so the fact that the rock can never "defend" itself from being changed in state is of no moral relevance.

Now if you were strictly talking about late-term abortions, after the embryo has progressed to the state of a fetus, with some ability to perceive and to act (at the very least, to feel and react to pain, and to kick), then I would agree there is some moral issue there. But this is not what the abortion issue is mostly concerned with.
 
Steadfast said:
This combination of innocence, parental participation and ritualized obliteration of the visage of God in human form is the devil’s way of blaspheming the Father with the misguided participation of God’s own children.

You know how I know devil-believing Christians who say such things about abortion patients and practitioners are deluded? They have the money and influence, but they don't use it to do some real good! Instead its all about buying church buildings and voting for the right politicians -- oh, and making noise over other people's mistakes. They are too schizophrenic to make the daily effort to take care of the poor and do all the things Jesus said, so they have to get all excited when they start talking about abortions. They need it. " I have to oppose abortion, because its SO EVIL!!!" Its like a drug; and they especially like to use it as a prop to make themselves believe in Satanic conspiracies, since who could possibly be responsible for the worlds problems if not Satan? Couldn't be that their lazy butts are doing nothing but building new church buildings! (Got to have buildings or the preachers won't have jobs!) It justifies their ignoring other issues in which they could actually be making a difference. Same thing with their lame missionary excursions. Woo hoo we went and preached in the Amazon jungle! Yay us! The plane tickets were $4000 but we raised the funds! Glory to God!

Proverbs 18:9 He who is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.

Don't you know, they could have bought every abortion clinic by now? They could have bought every doctor, but that doesn't help keep the ministries going. Ministries need those funds, so they can fight abortion clinics. Keeping the ministries going -- now thats important. Ministries have priority, for it would be a terrible thing indeed of those weren't properly funded.

The scope of this delusional behavior is like science fiction. Caring for the unborn is one thing, but ignoring the real world is another. Sell your buildings and give to the poor, then I will believe you are serious about the unborn. First show me you care for the born. I'm not joking. How much of the world's riches are tied up in church buildings? Now compare that to the budget for the pro or anti abortion lobbies.
 
And the prison thing, how could it be cheaper to furnish food clothing housing and basic medical care for the length of someones life than the compounds and equipment to terminate that life? I mean, I haven't studied it or anything, so you could be completely right, but where did you get the info on that? I'd like to look at it if that'd be ok.
I don't know what you are responding to, I read through the thread a ways and couldn't find it but the answer to the question as to how they can warehouse people and it is cheap is because they float bonds on people charged and convicted with a crime and then these are traded through various institutions/corporations which are set up to do so and they increase in value.
This is why we have a war on drugs (to create more criminals) and this is why George Bush SR passed the bill which created a vast number of prisons.
There is a lot of money involved.
People just have no real idea as to how money is really created and how it works.
But it is so convoluted that such is understandable.
Every prisoner in the U.S. Has a monetary value to the government whether its local, county, state or federal. Bonds are written based on the person’s name and social security number and are sold through a brokerage firm such as AG Edwards or Merrill Lynch who has the contract to sell all the prison bonds for the city, county, state or federal prisons. Over 50% of the money market bonds right now are purchased in Japan or China.

I’ve been told by researchers that Walmart and used to be, Kmart, also purchase these bonds. Wal-Mart mostly doing so by emptying out bank accounts at night. Both companies are fronts for enormous money machines.

The way the bond works is that a monetary value is placed on the alleged crime and then factored the way banks factor their money. In other words if a person is convicted of a felony the ‘value’ would be $4 million. The county/city/ state then multiplies it by ten, so the bond that goes out for sale with the prisoner’s name and social security number is a short-term ‘promissory’ note.

It’s offered at $40 million. Perhaps an investor will offer 40% of the $40 million, or $16 million. Once this ‘promissory note’of the face value of $40 million reaches the banks it is then multiplied again by 200 to 300% and sold as bank securities. For those of you who wonder why the US has more people in prison per capita than any other nation on earth, you’ll begin to understand how we can have a weakening economy and still fund wars overseas. It’s all based on prisoners, in other words, prison for profit.

Knowing all this and knowing that a prisoner can have a ‘net worth’ of say, $10,000 per day in the money markets, helped me explain to many bewildered women why they were in jail. We were only merchandise in a warehouse. The storage was pretty cheap; one woman while in jail researched the cost of feeding prisoners per day which ranged from 74 cents to $2.72 per prisoner per day.

Owners of the Prison Systems in America is, CORRECTION CORP OF AMERICA. It's headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee and owns all the private prison systems in AMERICA and are selling the commercial paper.

This is how it Works: A bid bond is done on Form 24, which comes out of the GSA Office (General Services Administration which is out of GAO (General Accounting Office} which is under the Comptroller General. This Blake Bond Bid Bond is promulgated at the time the social security card is issued.

When you are arrested the bond is filled out and they issue a Performance Bond, which is done from Form 25, and then they do a Payment Bond, which is a Form 25A.The Bonds are being underwritten by the Banks. This is where the PAINE WEBBER
GROUP comes in.

The Plaintiff in all criminal tax cases in the USA is the PAINE WEBBER GROUPas the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The PAINE WEBBER GROUP is a group of international businesses. The PAINE WEBBER GROUP is providing the Securities
for the prisons and is selling the Bonds, and the Banks, The ABA (AMERICAN BANKING ASSOCIATION) like LEHMEN BROTHERS, in New York City, are the underwriters on the Bonds. The Banks (the underwriters) is where the money is
originally coming from.

A six digit tracking number is issued for the Certificate of Stocks in the Commodity and Security Exchange in the USA by CUSIP (see www.cusip.com and www.cjts.comthe law enforcement tracking software) and a nine digit number (called Ordnance Number) is issued for the Certificate of Stocks going internationally to ANNA (see link for ANNA which is in Brussels, Belgium atwww.cusip.com ).

These Securities are sold through the Commodity and Security Exchange. The bottom line is they are selling stocks in the prison system.. The jails are referred to as Warehouses and the prisoners are called Goods (oops). They are selling the Goods or the Account as Chattel, and as Commercial Paper on the Stock Exchange. Reminds one of the days when slaves were bought and sold on the auction block!

The PAINE WEBBER GROUP is the prime stockholder in this CCA (Correction CORP of America).
 
You are running with a completely unreal notion of what an embryo is. An embryo is "innocent" in the same sense that a rock is innocent: doing nothing wrong because of an utter inability to "do" anything. I do not believe that God is an insensate blob of matter, and so the notion that an embryo is "in the image and likeness of God" is a blasphemy. And asking whether an embryo "can" defend itself takes for granted that an embryo would "want" to: but an embryo does not yet have any capacity to "want" anything. Is a rock being injured if it is crushed to powder? The matter does not care, and would as soon be in the powdered state as in any other, so the fact that the rock can never "defend" itself from being changed in state is of no moral relevance.

Now if you were strictly talking about late-term abortions, after the embryo has progressed to the state of a fetus, with some ability to perceive and to act (at the very least, to feel and react to pain, and to kick), then I would agree there is some moral issue there. But this is not what the abortion issue is mostly concerned with.
with all due respect sir, I disagree. At the moment of conception the "blueprint" is complete, and the "ingrediants" are in place and in foment (actively formenting). "Human Life" is engaged in "finalizing" the human form. It is that fast and furious. Prior to conception there was "potential". After conception it is human life in "motion".

v/r

Q
 
PRIOR to conception, the ovum and sperm are equally "alive" (they are not inanimate), and "human" (they are not canine, or elephantine). Afterwards, the zygote has a larger chromosome number, but no other "personal" traits (no capacity for thought, or love, or pain); it has "potential" to acquire such traits, but prior to conception, there was equally "potential"; there is still nothing actually personal. I do not see why chromosome number should be a trait that we especially value: there are some kinds of people with aberrant chromosome number (Down's Syndrome or Kleinfelter's Syndrome children), but quite appropriately, we regard the chromosome number as a complete irrelevancy as far as any moral concerns go, so why should the zygote's chromosome number be regarded as having a moral significance?
 
PRIOR to conception, the ovum and sperm are equally "alive" (they are not inanimate), and "human" (they are not canine, or elephantine). Afterwards, the zygote has a larger chromosome number, but no other "personal" traits (no capacity for thought, or love, or pain); it has "potential" to acquire such traits, but prior to conception, there was equally "potential"; there is still nothing actually personal. I do not see why chromosome number should be a trait that we especially value: there are some kinds of people with aberrant chromosome number (Down's Syndrome or Kleinfelter's Syndrome children), but quite appropriately, we regard the chromosome number as a complete irrelevancy as far as any moral concerns go, so why should the zygote's chromosome number be regarded as having a moral significance?
Again sir, I respectfully disagree. Once combined the "potential" is now "kinetic" and developing. All the pieces needed to expand to fruition are inplace and funtiioning in a developmental stage.

The character traits are in place, the intelligence potential is in place and developing, the physical form potential is in place and developing. In short, once Spermatazoa and ovum combine, the architectual plans are complete and the materials to finish the job are present, and construction has begun. The foundation is already laid and we have a "footprint" as it were, of the structure we all will soon see.

Whether or not there is a "spirit" (perspective occupant of the dwelling), present...well opinions vary on the matter. And that is really what this all boils down to. That it is a living human body is not in question. Is anyone home? That is the question. When does the human body become a human being?

The Bible gives a pretty strong inuendo to that question when the Lord is noted in saying "I knew you before you were stitched together in the womb".

Man needs to decide when that "knowledge of the individual" actually enters the "dwelling" being "wonderfully and fearfully made".

Here comes the relativeness of the human psychi...to a woman who is trying to have a child, conception is when God has blessed her with a baby. To a woman who does not want a child, the baby may or may not exist until it is living, breathing on its own and opens it's fathomless eyes to look into hers...that is shock reality.

How to avoid that shock?...get rid of the "potential" before the eyes turn towards the "mother", then she doesn't have to consider herself "mother".

How ironic that we treat criminals on death row with more respect than we do a "human form" still trapped in the placenta, but guilty of nothing but existing and growing, and being dependent on its "host", through no "choice" of its own...
 
Its a mistake, legally, to separate the child's life from the mother's will to give it. Valuing life requires valuing the entire process, seeing life as a continuum. There needs to be moderation and realistic expectations about what laws can achieve, as well as respect for areas where they have no power. To step into the mother's place is overvaluing the human laws in place of the natural ones. Its like assuming that you can program a human being if you give them enough rules.

Biblically Children 'Belong' to their parents. Maybe at this time in our society it is not legally so on paper; but in nature and fact it is. Examples from the Bible: 1. When in the Bible God gives Samuel to Hannah, she in turn must take the child to the temple and give him back. Even though she has promised him, she still has to give him. It is a separation. She could keep him, which would be wrong but she doesn't. There is an analogy to abortion there. There is no soldier standing by to insure she follows through. 2. Why does Moses mother spare him? It is not because the law tells her to, but she saves him against the law and is shown to be superior to it! The laws of Egypt say she should take his Moses life, but she sees he is a goodly child. She saves him for that reason. When it comes to children, the parents are the true law and the spirit of it, starting with the mothers.
 
Again sir, I respectfully disagree.
At least we're able to stay civil, one more beneficial fallout from you and I and Greymare having actually met face-to-face and had a good time together.
Once combined the "potential" is now "kinetic" and developing.
I don't know what you mean by "kinetic": the actual meaning of the word is just "moving" (and the ovum is every bit as motile as the zygote; and the spermatozoon, of course, much more motile than either) but I'm sure you intend something more.
The character traits are in place
No, no, no, they're NOT. Not even such a basic trait as "individuality" is in place: through the morula and blastula stages (until cell differentiation sets in during the gastrula stage), twinning can happen-- and unhappen.
the intelligence potential is in place and developing
No, no, no, most especially there is no sign of "intelligence" yet, nor does any development toward it start for quite a while.
In short, once Spermatazoa and ovum combine, the architectual plans are complete
An architectural plan is not a building. We strongly distinguish between demolishing a building, for which a permit would certainly be required, and putting a blueprint on the shelf, which you might feel some pangs about, if you have invested a lot of forethought into it and then find you can't go through with the project, but certainly you still have every right to change your mind without having to ask permission from anyone else.
and the materials to finish the job are present
No, no, no, very little of the necessary material is present. The mother has to supply the material, if she is willing (or compelled) to do so. You are aware that God Himself aborts most embryos? Either the zygote fails to implant, or the implantation fails to take, in the majority of cases. Should the woman be required to supply the zygote with material to become a person? It isn't a person yet, so saying that the zygote has a "right" to develop is, to my mind, a totally wrong-headed way to look at it (the zygote doesn't WANT anything yet, doesn't CARE whether it develops or not; it doesn't have anything to "want" or "care" with). And saying that we have a duty to turn every potential person into an actual would seem to imply that we should never allow a woman to forego sex and thereby "murder" the innocent ovum through intentional menstruation (women should have to stay pregnant as continuously as they are able, conceiving again within a month or two after every birth).
Whether or not there is a "spirit" (perspective occupant of the dwelling), present...well opinions vary on the matter. And that is really what this all boils down to.
Well, if there is a "spirit" hanging around the zygote, it doesn't DO anything! It doesn't have anything to do with "personality", so why is it of any moral concern? Let me give you some puzzles to work on: some zygotes eventually develop, not into one person, but into two (or more: but let us just consider the identical-twin case first). Does God supply that zygote, right from the beginning, with two souls, which both hang around the same cell until they can go their separate ways, or does he wait to supply the second soul until after the separation? How about the case where a morula separates into two, which separately implant-- but then fuse back into one (this is in fact what happens with most incipient twinnings)? And here's the weirdest case: women sometimes double-ovulate, and if both are inseminated, this can result in fraternal twins (not genetically identical), or, sometimes they will fuse, giving a "chimera" with the cells in different patches of tissue having non-identical genomes (James Buchanan is probably the best-known human chimera: among his many distinctive traits, he was the only President of the United States whose eyes were of different colors). Do the zygotes start off with two souls, which also "fuse" (how do spiritual entities go about fusing)? Or does God foreknow the outcome, and always supply the right number of souls for the number of people that will result? In that case, wouldn't God know in advance when a zygote was never going to end up a person, and refrain from supplying a soul to start with?
That it is a living human body is not in question.
Yes, yes, and a blood cell is "living", and "human", and a "body"; that is not in question either. In theory we can keep it alive on a Petri dish indefinitely; but we do not feel any moral compunction to do so, and would laugh at the thought that cleaning up a bloodstain is an act of "murder", because although it is a "living human body", it is most decidedly not a "person", and has none of the traits that we morally value. The difference between a blood cell and a zygote, of course, is that the blood cell has no potential to become a person (unless our cloning technology vastly improves? will we then be under obligation to actualize every potential person that we possibly can?), but until there is an actual person, I don't see the moral obligation that you do.
Is anyone home? That is the question. When does the human body become a human being?
When does it acquire "personality" or "psyche"? At least in the minimum sense of ability to perceive and act? That is an empirical question, whose answer is not all that mysterious: starting around four months, sometimes a little earlier, the neural net rather abruptly turns on, an event known since ancient times as the "quickening" and considered in modern terms the point at which we stop talking about an "embryo" and start talking about a "fetus" (the fetus has senses, and while it may not be able to "do" very much, it does swim around and give the mother little kicks). Thomas Aquinas was of the opinion that this is when the "soul" attached; and the legal systems made distinctions between abortion before and after this point ("Abortion prior to quickening can never be the subject of indictment under the common law" -- Blackstone's Commentaries, a widely relied-upon 18th-century summary). This used to be the common Christian attitude: the notion that abortion should be forbidden from the moment sperm-hits-egg is a recent "conception".

There is of course some difficulty about the question because there is no black-and-white line. Neurons are distinguishable as a class of differentiated cell from about one month, and start to have flashes of electrical activity long before they start acting as a coherent nervous system; I speak of the "quickening" as a "rather abrupt" event, but of course that does not mean "instantaneous".
The Bible gives a pretty strong inuendo to that question when the Lord is noted in saying "I knew you before you were stitched together in the womb".
This says that the Lord knew Jeremiah prior to conception. It is talking about divine foreknowledge from the beginning of time. I'm sure you have had pointed out to you before (if not, I'll look it up again, but I don't have the cite right now) the passage where, if a miscarriage is the result of violence against a pregnant woman, a fine will be imposed: it is unambiguous that the Bible did not regard the death of an unborn child as a case of murder or even manslaughter.
To a woman who does not want a child, the baby may or may not exist until it is living, breathing on its own and opens it's fathomless eyes to look into hers...that is shock reality.
In 90% of abortions, we are dealing with an insensate blob which doesn't HAVE any "eyes", either literally or figuratively. I agree with you that after the first trimester (when the fetus has some degree of "psyche", at least enough to feel pain), there starts to be a moral issue.
How ironic that we treat criminals on death row with more respect than we do a "human form" still trapped in the placenta, but guilty of nothing but existing and growing, and being dependent on its "host", through no "choice" of its own...
It can't be "guilty" of anything, or make any "choice", because it doesn't have anything to CHOOSE with! It is still more analogous to the "human form" of a bloodstain, than to a "person" of any kind.
 
Most of the charity work in world history has and is being done by people of faith and their ministries.
 
Most of the charity work in world history has and is being done by people of faith and their ministries.

And most of professional sports are performed by athletes and supported by their clubs.

I'm not sure what your point is here.
 
There is only ONE comment in the Bible concerning Abortion, just one.

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury (to the woman), then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life." (Exodus 21:22-23)

That is it!
 
The modern abortion industry offers ritual blood sacrifice to the ancient abortion demon. It is in every way a demonic religion. It has its sacred dogma ("choice"), its ruling hierarchy (Planned Parenthood), its theologians (feminist ideologues), its sacrificing priesthood (abortionists), its temples (abortion mills), altars (surgical tables), ritual victims (primarily babies and secondarily women), acolytes and sacristans (clinic workers and death-scorts), congregations (all supporters of abortion) and its own unifying principle of sacramental "grace" (money). In short, the abortion industry is a perfect demonic system which offers a perverse form of worship to the devil.

The sacrificial victim in this demonic religion is not a brute animal as was offered to the Old Testament God of Israel in a legitimate system of religious sacrifices. In abortion, the victim is an innocent human being who is made in the "image and likeness of God" and who can never defend herself. This combination of innocence, parental participation and ritualized obliteration of the visage of God in human form is the devil’s way of blaspheming the Father with the misguided participation of God’s own children. The systematic destruction of the human body which St. Paul calls "the temple of the Holy Spirit" is a blasphemous insult to God. If the abortion business is not truly demonic, nothing is.

Yikes! How many people in America are running around spouting this psychotic dribble? Or is this a patient at a psychiatric hospital. It reflects no established religion nor knowledge of Embryology. Crikey, your schools are really failing.

Amergin
 
The human foetus starts out as a single cell, a sort of amoeba. Then it forms a ball of attached cells in a sheet like a slime mould. Later a ball of cells forms like a Volvox. Two layers form like Coelenterates. Then it develops a third layer to become a three layered life form (ectoderm, mesoderm, and endoderm.) This body plan is first seen in primitive worms and protochordates. It develops many worm-like segments called somatomeres. A primitive structure called a notochord from Cambrian times now found only in Amphioxus develops next in the human embryo. A neural tube forms and the primitive brain neurons send processes across to the opposite side L to R and R to L that we still have today and we have in the early embryo.

At about 6 weeks or so the human embryo has fish gills and a tail like a tadpole. Our brain has a fish brain (brainstem) rapidly growing to the amphibian (frog) brainstem and early cerebellum. Then the brain grows a midbrain, diencephalon, and temporal lobes (Palaeocortex) of reptiles. Later it adds the Archaeocortex of primitive mammals, and finally the neocortex of advanced mammals.

The primitive notochord of 550 million years ago is absorbed and recycled. The bony spine replaces it. The gills are recycled into ear and laryngeal parts. Our tail is resorbed.

So as an embryo we recapitulate the story of evolution from start to present. At what stage is the foetus a human? Is it just having 46 chromosomes but structurally a tadpole? Or is it when the neocortex of primates forms? Or is it when brain wave activity begins to approach human frequencies (but slow and irregular) at perhaps 20 weeks? Or is it when the foetus is capable of independent life support (breathing, swallowing, and excretion?)

I don't know the answer. I just pose the rhetorical issue. Perhaps the biology cannot be as firm and unyielding on the answer as those who debate it pro or con would wish. The human embryo begins as a single cell and the progression through worm, amphioxus, fish, amphibian, reptile, and mammal to human mammal. It is a growing and developing organism with no clear line of demarcation. One cannot draw a line designating the exact point at which the foetus becomes human. Those who draw a line do so by arbitrary dogma not by reason.

Humans are not really separate from other animals. We are all animals. Humans evolved from an ancestral animal starting over 700 million years ago. Like evolution, that transition was in micro-steps so that it is hard to draw a line where a pair of mating non-humans give birth to a human baby. Likewise, the human embryo does not have human anatomy and physiology until at least 5 months gestation. But what about 4 months and 3 weeks? Are they not human? Or are the single cell protista like fertilized ova human? I read about it today. You can not draw a convincing line at any focal point in human embryology. Chromosome count doesn’t help because Chimps have the same number of chromosomes.

Abortion is only clearly homicide when the embryo becomes capable of life outside of the womb. The rest of the embryological transition from single cell to human being is a continuous gradient that is only artificially divided into distinct stages.

All claims that abortion are good or wrong are simply opinions which science does not prove. Science does show that humans begin as a single cell (protista) and all of the stages of evolution in the record. Where does one draw the line? Late term abortions should be restricted to lethal threat to mother.

Amergin
 
The modern abortion industry offers ritual blood sacrifice to the ancient abortion demon. It is in every way a demonic religion.

Demons are imaginary. There was no historical abortion demon. Abortion is not a religion let alone demonic. People obsessed with demons kill their living children.

It has its sacred dogma ("choice"),

How can choice be dogma. One is the opposite of the other. Dogma means no choice. Choice means freedom for the individual to decide "choice."

its ruling hierarchy (Planned Parenthood), its theologians (feminist ideologues), its sacrificing priesthood (abortionists), its temples (abortion mills), altars (surgical tables), ritual victims (primarily babies and secondarily women), acolytes and sacristans (clinic workers and death-scorts), congregations (all supporters of abortion) and its own unifying principle of sacramental "grace" (money).
That is all a pack of lies and insane ranting by a lunatic or someone pretending to be a lunatic Probably you are just a routine conspiracy theorist who forgot to take your medication.

In short, the abortion industry is a perfect demonic system which offers a perverse form of worship to the devil.
Ha, ha. That is funny if it were not so sick. Your bloody Bible does not condemn abortiion. Sorry for sounding harsh mate, but you need to see your doctor.


The sacrificial victim in this demonic religion is not a brute animal as was offered to the Old Testament God of Israel in a legitimate system of religious sacrifices.
The Bible shows a Jewish tradition of human sacrifice. God ordered Abraham to kill his son with the sacrificial rules. The fact that God stopped him does not change the fact that Abraham seemed to understand the rite of human sacrifice. Japhtheh in Judges, sacrifices his only daughter, after winning a war against some enemy. His daughter was the first to greet him. Why did not YOUR God stop him from killing the girl. Only an evil. The whose basis of Christianity is the human sacrifice of Jesus for some imaginary sin. Christians eat Jesus in the form of a solar disc bread wafer. That is not only ritual cannibalism but a tradition in most forms of human sacrifice in history.

In abortion, the victim is an innocent human being who is made in the "image and likeness of God" and who can never defend herself. This combination of innocence, parental participation and ritualized obliteration of the visage of God in human form is the devil’s way of blaspheming the Father with the misguided participation of God’s own children. The systematic destruction of the human body which St. Paul calls "the temple of the Holy Spirit" is a blasphemous insult to God. If the abortion business is not truly demonic, nothing is.
Aborting a foetus after 5 months is clearly wrong in my opinion. That foetus is clearly a developing human. When the foetus is simply a segmented worm with a notochord, it does not fit the definition of human. If aborting a foetus at single cell stage is abortion, then you commit hundreds of abortions daily when you vigourously wash skin cells in a bath, brush your teeth, have a bowel movement, or bleed from a scratch. Each of those cells have the same chromosomes and genes as you do.

Genes on chromosomes do not determine human life. Human life requires a spinal cord, medulla, pons, cerebellum, mid-brain, diencephalon, thalamus, basal ganglia, palaeocortex, archaeocortex, and neocortex (i.e. human brain.)

Don't scratch that demonic itch too much or you are performing hundreds of single cell abortions.:D

Amergin
 
Amergin said:
The Bible shows a Jewish tradition of human sacrifice. God ordered Abraham to kill his son with the sacrificial rules. The fact that God stopped him does not change the fact that Abraham seemed to understand the rite of human sacrifice.
of course he understood it because he came from a culture where it was a normal part of life - the *difference* with judaism was that it was clear from the beginning that that wasn't on. so how is that a "jewish tradition" if abraham was the first jew and his defining moment as a jew was G!D's demonstration that human sacrifice was not only unnecessary but wrong? i mean, i understand how to make lasagne, but the fact that i don't, because the laws of kashrut prohibit doing so don't make it a jewish tradition. they make *not* doing it a jewish tradition.

Japhtheh in Judges, sacrifices his only daughter, after winning a war against some enemy. His daughter was the first to greet him.
and, consequently, jephthah is regarded by the sages as the stupidest man in the entire Tanakh; you may remember that in the period of judges "each man did what was right in his own eyes" - i.e., didn't keep the Torah. the fact that jephthah didn't understand the rules of oath-making and oath management is the first thing that we learn; this is the paradigmatic example of an oath that was invalid when it was made, could have been dismissed at any time and was in no sense binding; jephthah's ignorance and determination to proceed with the consequences of his oath were the reasons he was regarded as culpably unjust, rather than being regarded as a great leader. the whole episode is about the need for decent leadership, not just any bloke who's good at fighting.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Demons are imaginary.
You're absolutely sure of that ... or just working on the basis that as you've never seen one, they don't exist?

How can choice be dogma. One is the opposite of the other. Dogma means no choice. Choice means freedom for the individual to decide "choice."
That's the fundamentalist view, the reality is something different.

Your bloody Bible does not condemn abortion.
Curious ... as the Jews, and then the Christians, following Jewish Tradition, made a practice of rescuing abandoned children. I think you'll find it's your non-Biblical cultures that practiced abortion and infanticide ...

The whose basis of Christianity is the human sacrifice of Jesus for some imaginary sin. Christians eat Jesus in the form of a solar disc bread wafer. That is not only ritual cannibalism but a tradition in most forms of human sacrifice in history.
Ah ... how little you know ... and how much less you understand ...

Aborting a foetus after 5 months is clearly wrong in my opinion. That foetus is clearly a developing human. When the foetus is simply a segmented worm with a notochord, it does not fit the definition of human.
Only from your perspective ... what is it going to become ... a door, a dog? No. It is human, but as yet not yet fully developed. That a thing is developing into something does not mean it is not that thing in its nascent stage.

When you say 'clearly' I assume you mean 'because it looks like one'? That's a very superficial view.

If aborting a foetus at single cell stage is abortion, then you commit hundreds of abortions daily when you vigourously wash skin cells in a bath, brush your teeth, have a bowel movement, or bleed from a scratch. Each of those cells have the same chromosomes and genes as you do.
But they're not going to develop into a human being are they, so this is pure nonsense.

Genes on chromosomes do not determine human life. Human life requires a spinal cord, medulla, pons, cerebellum, mid-brain, diencephalon, thalamus, basal ganglia, palaeocortex, archaeocortex, and neocortex (i.e. human brain.)
So what determines that there will be a spinal cord a medulla, pons, cerebellum, mid-brain, etc., etc. before they actually appear ... I mean, what determines that this will be a human being, before it's recognisably a human being?

You need to look beyond your nose ... you need to learn to think.

Thomas
 
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