You are the one who has to prove that there is support for taking spiritual masters. So far, you have failed in doing so. And since your entire argument rests on this one basic point: to prove the validity of your sheikhs as spiritual masters, by verifying their “closeness” to God, the rest of your points become pointless… But lets deal with them anyway.
I haven’t failed, c0de. You could have said that you haven’t been convinced since you chose to interpret the story of Moses pbuh and Khidr differently than many Muslims scholars who saw in them a student/teacher relationship, and since you didn’t take into consideration many reliable hadith. What shall I do then?
Consider the comedy of the situation. A priestly class develops, and in order to justify itself it tells people that it is okay to depend on weak hadiths, and the people actually accept it! This is exactly how priestly classes developed in other religions! Damned are the leaders and the lead!
As I told you anything that doesn’t accord the Quran and the sunnah should be rejected. Al-Junaid one of the propminent sufis said, "He who has not memorized the Qur'an and learned Hadith shouldn't be followed in this matter [Sufism], for our knowledge is to be derived solely from the Qur'an and the Sunnah."
If some attribute false things to Sufism, then it should nt be take as an excuse to reject Sufism at all.
Did those prophets claim they were God Himself? Because some of these sufis ended up doing exactly that. They claimed they had “let go” of their self and become “one” with “God”. Cases like these are well known.
When I started reading some sufi books for the first time, I found a passage saying that some knowledge should be revealed to the public, but just to certain people who may understand it and give it its due worth. At first, I didn’t like that, but later on, I understand it. The prophet Muhammed pbuh himself asked to address people at their understanding and intellectual ability. It was reported that two persons ask the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him about pilgrimage, and answered them differently.
When al hallaj, one of the great Sufis, was killed, he was misunderstood. He was asked who he worshipped, and he replied: "Your god is under him, and I Allah."
Now, if you asked me what is my hobby, I would reply: " your hobby is football, and I swimming". What does this mean to you? In Arabic language, we can delete the name who is going to be repeated. In the case of alhallaj, the meaning of his sentence is: " You god is under me, and I/my god is "Allah". As for the first part of the sentence, Alhallaj was standing in a place underwhich there was gold and money, and those who peple who asked him were people of wealth and power.
The mistake of alhallaj is that he didn’t address those people at the level of their understanding. Thst's why, his teacher al junaid declared that the murder of Alhallaj was lawful according to the shariah because apparently he declared blasphemey.
The problem with your causality argument here is that you do not provide a cause for "believe" that is supported by the verse. My argument says that the cause is God.
I believe God is the cause of everything in the sense that He allowed things to take place, not because he obliged others to do it. He allowed me to believe. He is the cause of that, and I m very grateful for that because he showed me the way.Also, He allowed me to disbelieve. He is the cause of that, and I have to blame myself only because God asked me to believe and Ignore His teachings.
Your argument says that it is innate in man.
My argument says that it is innate in man to feel what is right and what is wrong. It is known as "a common sense", while in Islam, it is refered to as "heart"…The following are hadiths which supprt this: "Virtue is what eases the soul and reassures the heart, and vice is that which does not ease the soul nor does it reassure the heart, even if your are given fatwas by muftis (indicating otherwise.
‘If something rankles in your heart, keep away from it.’”
“Seek judgment from your heart.”
My argument is supported by the very verse itself: "but Allah will leave, to stray, those who do wrong"(showing the ultimate cause is God) While your argument finds no support anywhere in the verse. That is the difference.
I explained before that guidance/delusion has causes. In this verse, there is a cause of delusion :" , those who do wrong", and there is a result: " but Allah will leave, to stray,". Hence, my argument finds place in this verse very clearly, and not yours.
Another argument from causality that doesn’t work. Your "causes" of delusion and guidance are actually descriptions of the people who are guided or deluded. And no, those verses do not answer my question, but further amplify it against you.
Again, you chose to give your own interpretation that get away from the real meaning. The verses plainly declare that Allah guide not/ will not give guidance/ will never guide to certain people who are doing certain things..
Those causes srent descriptions of people guided or deluded, they are descriptions of people who deserve guidance or not..
Wrong. God has stated in the Quran that the prayers of the Prophet for the disbelievers and hypocrites are useless, because God decides who is guided and how. How many times in the Quran is the same said of other Prophets who asked their own wives, or children or relations to be guided and God said the same to them?
Also, how many sons and daughters did the Prophet loose in childbirth? You think he had not prayed for their lives, that they had lived? What about the battle of Uhud? You think the Prophet had not prayed for victory? How then, did we lose on that day?
Agreed.
He never said I am a "friend" of God
"If I were to take an intimate friend (khalil) other than my Lord, I would have chosen Abu Bakr."(hadith). By the way, God's friends is just an English translation of the Arabic word " Wali", and the prophets are of highly status than the awliyae
The Prophet was aware of his own complete nothingness in front of God. He was HUMBLE! Unlike these sufi masters.
Are you sure of that?!!
Is there anywhere in the Quran where it is stated that anyone can go against God's will?
No, it isn’t. I, like you, believe that everything is of God's will. But there is no where in the Quran that God obliges us to believe/disbelieve, do wrong/good. It is God's will that we choose,. Hence to believe or disbelieve is God's will. Can you see my argument?
No one can go against Allah’s will, therefore there can never any truly be any disobedience in an absolute sense.
Yes, some choose to disbelieve/disobey, but is all of God's will. God's will/permission doesn't mean God's obligation/predestination to people actions.
Then why doesn’t God contradict the saying of the idol-worshippers?
Do you think that God is confirming them in those verse?!! What do you interpret this comment : " So did those who went before them.But what is the mission of apostles but to preach the Clear Message?" This is to show that God will not force you to believe. The messenger has to preach the message, and you have to choose. Look at the precedent verse: [16:33] Do the (ungodly) wait until the angels come to them, or there comes the Command of thy Lord (for their doom)? So did those who went before them. But Allah wronged them not: nay, they wronged their own souls.
I have debated this topic with brother Abdallah before. #1: sahih hadiths contradict other sahih hadiths. For example the hadith in which the Prophet says that after 3 generations the muslims are "not of me, and I am not of them" clearly says that the Prophet did not even consider the ummah a "Muslim" ummah after only 3 generations! This hadith clearly contradicts the one you cited.
The solution is not to reject Hadith, brother. The hadith I know is that the best generation as the prophet pbuh said is "the one which follwed me, then the next, then the next." That isn’t to say that the coming generations ater these aren’t of the prophet pbuh, but it means that they are getting worse. And God's hand will always be with jama'a..
.
