The state of the dead....

[Quahom1]

*cheers Q* Yep it can be explained in one way that some people go to Heaven when they die.

Ok, but I fail to see that number being limited to only 144,000 persons. And it further states that all will face judgment before the throne in heaven (not on earth), So logically all persons would at one time or another enter heaven, even if only to be banished away later. I do not believe God plays the lottery with people. Who accept Him, He accepts. Who rejects Him, He rejects. That seems to be the main theme of the Bible throughout. All we need is faith, and a willingness to act on that faith.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

Ok, but I fail to see that number being limited to only 144,000 persons. And it further states that all will face judgment before the throne in heaven (not on earth), So logically all persons would at one time or another enter heaven, even if only to be banished away later. I do not believe God plays the lottery with people. Who accept Him, He accepts. Who rejects Him, He rejects. That seems to be the main theme of the Bible throughout. All we need is faith, and a willingness to act on that faith.

v/r

Q

At Revelation 7:9, the great crowd is not seen as being in heaven. Their “standing before the throne” of God does not require them to be in heaven. They are simply in the sight of God.


Jehovah is in his holy temple.
Jehovah—in the heavens is his throne.
His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men.
(Psalm 11:4)

 

[mee]

That idea conflicts with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him...He said, "On this day, you will be with me in Paradise" (para). Now, can that be explained?

v/r

Q

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.
yes this word paradise was refering to a garden of eden like paradise, an earthly one . and that person next to Jesus will have a resurrection into the paradise earth in the future.



According to the Bible, no human, including the apostles, could be accepted for heavenly life until Jesus had been sacrificed, had gone to heaven and opened or “inaugurated” the way into heaven. (Heb. 10:12, 19, 20; 1 Cor. 15:20, 23) Accordingly, it was not until Pentecost of 33 C.E., 10 days after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, that holy spirit was first poured out so that the disciples were “born again,” a prerequisite to going to heaven. (John 3:3, 5; Acts 1:3-9; 2:1-4) The evildoer impaled beside Christ had died over a month before, so he was not “born again.” Logically he could not have been called to the heavenly kingdom any more than was John the Baptizer, who also died before Christ offered the sacrificial basis for heavenly life.—Matt. 11:11.


Note that Jesus did not ascend to heaven the day he died or even the day he was resurrected. Shortly after his resurrection he told Mary: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.” This also has a bearing on the question as to when what Jesus said to the evildoer applies.—John 20:17.

 

[Quahom1]

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.
yes this word paradise was refering to a garden of eden like paradise, an earthly one . and that person next to Jesus will have a resurrection into the paradise earth in the future.



According to the Bible, no human, including the apostles, could be accepted for heavenly life until Jesus had been sacrificed, had gone to heaven and opened or “inaugurated” the way into heaven. (Heb. 10:12, 19, 20; 1 Cor. 15:20, 23) Accordingly, it was not until Pentecost of 33 C.E., 10 days after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, that holy spirit was first poured out so that the disciples were “born again,” a prerequisite to going to heaven. (John 3:3, 5; Acts 1:3-9; 2:1-4) The evildoer impaled beside Christ had died over a month before, so he was not “born again.” Logically he could not have been called to the heavenly kingdom any more than was John the Baptizer, who also died before Christ offered the sacrificial basis for heavenly life.—Matt. 11:11.


Note that Jesus did not ascend to heaven the day he died or even the day he was resurrected. Shortly after his resurrection he told Mary: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.” This also has a bearing on the question as to when what Jesus said to the evildoer applies.—John 20:17.

No it did not. Jesus mentions nothing about the Garden of Eden like paradise. He said, "on this day, you will be with ME, in Paradise." Likewise, John the Baptist was re-assured in his hour of doubt that Jesus was the one...and he died with salvation before him.

Jesus died, decended into hell/hades/sheol, and on the third day rose again, according to the scriptures. What happened in between, we do not know. Just because He didn't meet the Father, doesn't mean those slated didn't get into heaven. Enter the kingdom, granted, need permission to come before the throne...

Lol, I can enter Windsor castle in London. But I need a permission for audience from the Queen, before I can enter her antechambers...

Look at it from a modern day hero movie. Jesus takes the believing sinner to heaven and says "don't move, I'll be back for you", then plunges into hell to rescue the rest of the believers, comes back to heaven and says, "Don't move, I got to secure a foot hold on earth, then I'll be back for you". So He comes back to earth, sets up command center, makes sure it's running with competent people, then says, "keep the fort". and heads north to the rest of his sheep he has to introduce to the Father...

In the mean time, every time someone in the faith of God dies, they head straight to heaven, to be introduced to the Father.

For some reason, there is a link between corporial bodies and spirit, but in the end the two will be re-joined and made new. But in the mean time, the spirit is not asleep while time passes, but is in the presence of the Creator. I didn't say the Father, I said the Creator (Jesus).

 

[mee]

No it did not. Jesus mentions nothing about the Garden of Eden like paradise. He said, "on this day, you will be with ME, in Paradise."

according to the Bible, they went to the place called in Greek Ha′des and in Hebrew She′ol, both of which refer to the common grave of mankind. (Luke 18:31-33; 24:46; Acts 2:31) Of those in that place, the Bible says: “As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol [Greek, Ha′des], the place to which you are going.” Hardly a paradise!—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10



but the reason Jesus spoke of a paradise ,was because Jesus knew that at a future time, that one on the stake next to him
would be in an earthly paradise when the resurrection from the memorial tombs started
JOHN 5;28-29

 

[mee]

In the mean time, every time someone in the faith of God dies, they head straight to heaven, to be introduced to the Father.

In which paradise? In the Bible, the original Paradise was the parklike garden of Eden that our first parents lost. The Bible promises that that earthly Paradise will be restored under God’s Kingdom, of which Jesus is King. (Psalm 37:9-11; Micah 4:3, 4) Hence, Jesus will be with that wrongdoer and countless other dead ones when he resurrects them from the grave to life on a paradise earth and to the opportunity of learning to do God’s will and living forever.—John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:11-13; 21:3, 4.