"This place is dangerous for trying to find truth"

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Avi said:
, are you serious ? My "factional support base here on the forum" ? Are you talking about BB, Dauer, and Linda ? Read our posts, we are about as far apart as the Conservative Christians and UU's.
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Lol, no! The believer faction. Wil is UU. They're like the very last stop on the road out of organized religion town. But just watch Wil, or POO who is some kind of Druid-Christian hybrid religion of one come swooping in to defend Belief in general, giving cover to conservatives and fundies who, when all is said and done, believe that their pal and fellow Belief faction mates are going to fry like Fritos in the skillet of Hell for all eternity. "Thanks for the assist, buddy, now off to hell...Jesus loves you mwahahaaaaaaa."

Chris
 
For example: Zionists need the support of whacko evagelicals. For that reason they can't really bust on their goofball theology even though they know that the Christian fundies just want them to keep the seat warm for them until Armageddon, and have no real interest a homeland for Jews. (Think of Joe Leiberman Uncle Tom-ing at Rev. Hagee's convention.)
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Chris,

I have to strongly disagree here. Zionists DO NOT need the support of whacko evangelicals like Rev. Hagee and his ilk, although for some reason many of them think they do. I'm not even gonna get started on Traitor Joe Lieberman, who is a traitor in more ways than one. At this point that kind of stuff is pretty much what I expect from Traitor Joe, so I take it from where it comes. What REALLY disturbs me is Elie Wiesel's recent alliance with Hagees organization, because he can and does know better. It's almost like he's been brainwashed or something.

This would probably be a good spinoff topic for the Judaism forum, as I was just saying over there a few minutes ago.

Love and Light,
Linda
 
Wil is UU. They're like the very last stop on the road out of organized religion town.
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Chris,

That may be true, but the next stop after that isn't necessarily non-religion or atheism. That's only one possible route. It can also be dis-organized religion, a movement I am proud to affiliate myself with in several of its wonderfully chaotic manifestations.

--Linda
 
I just have to say this. I had a delightful moment of clarity as I read through this entire thread. Tao CZ and Chris have all at one time pissed me off to no end and I am just amazed at how much Ive changed because Ive had the most wonderful laughs and sorry to say at some point at the expense of others and myself from all three of these gentlemen. It was very entertaining. I also think it wonderful irony the thread in fact and the who that ended up being on the proverbial chopping block.

I also wouldnt say I was one of the "club" Janz spoke of hehe. That would be pushing it a little too far, but some of this stuff was absolutely priceless and were basically just things I thought myself but would never say because of tact and that my grandma taught me that if I didnt have something nice to say... :)

I need a blow kisses smiley face.. I would use it for this one. :)
 
Faithfulservant said:
Tao CZ and Chris have all at one time pissed me off to no end and I am just amazed at how much Ive changed because Ive had the most wonderful laughs and sorry to say at some point at the expense of others and myself from all three of these gentlemen.
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She called me a gentleman.

*blush* :p
 
I just have to say this. I had a delightful moment of clarity as I read through this entire thread. Tao CZ and Chris have all at one time pissed me off to no end and I am just amazed at how much Ive changed because Ive had the most wonderful laughs and sorry to say at some point at the expense of others from all three of these gentlemen. It was very entertaining. I also think it wonderful irony the thread in fact and the who that ended up being on the proverbial chopping block.
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FS,

I'm not the least bit surprised. I've observed for years that Christian fundamentalists can be every bit as skeptical as the most hard-boiled atheist/materialist when it comes to other people's beliefs that they don't happen to share, such as reincarnation or astrology. But whenever they gore your sacred cows, it's a whole other story, right?

--Linda
 
Raksha said:
FS,

I'm not the least bit surprised. I've observed for years that Christian fundamentalists can be every bit as skeptical as the most hard-boiled atheist/materialist when it comes to other people's beliefs that they don't happen to share, such as reincarnation or astrology. But whenever they gore your sacred cows, it's a whole other story, right?

--Linda
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wow.. btw Im not a fundamentalist Christian even though thats what Im labeled here for some reason. I happen to believe IN the fundamentals of Christianity doesnt make me a fundamentalist. Its ok though. I get stereotyped and you do too.. I personally dont have any particular opinion on your experience because it happened to you and not to me and you really didnt say enough about it for anyone to form an opinion on it. I used to do astrology charts till it got uncomfortably accurate I even did tarot and stoppped for the same reason. I believe in ghosts and hauntings and UFO's and I believe that some people have different experiences than I do. I had a neighbor once who had a friend that channeled for me and that was the scariest thing I had ever experienced because that "channeled" being knew more than anyone else did about my situation at the time. So guess what.. Im not a sceptic but I do not believe what you believe about it. I lived 15 minutes away from yelm Washington home of JZ knight and Ramtha so when the whole channeling thing came up in the media I had first row tickets to it.

So I forgive you for misjudging me and reading something into my post that wasnt there. If you knew how those three guys had me in a ringer you would know why its amazing to me that I can laugh about it. You might want to reread Chris's last post when he was disparaging Christians. that was hilarious to me!

Relax Linda.. You are so much on the defensive that you are pushing all of us away. We are nice people behind all these words and meaningless arguments.
 
Raksha said:
FS,

I'm not the least bit surprised. I've observed for years that Christian fundamentalists can be every bit as skeptical as the most hard-boiled atheist/materialist when it comes to other people's beliefs that they don't happen to share, such as reincarnation or astrology. But whenever they gore your sacred cows, it's a whole other story, right?

--Linda
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I had edited my previous post to add that I was also laughing at my own expense. You started your post before I made that change.
 
Ciel, you are like a willo-the-wisp. Nice to catch a glimpse:)

FS, :)
 
Avi said:
Having said that I am primarily a rationalist, I do respect people who have mystical inclinations. I think it can be very rewarding for them. :)
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I respect that some people may have mystical experiences, however I think usually people are notequipped to interpret them. There is always some confusion as to what a mystical experience is, which might be the reason why they are called mystical. I thought that was the definition of mystical experience, something that is not consistently experienced. That does not seem to be the common definition though. It seems like mystical can mean other things depending upon who I ask. I also question whether people can be truly rational. We can have a bent in our attentions, so that we are not able to see obvious things. This blows rationality out of the water sometimes. No idea.
 
Dream said:
I respect that some people may have mystical experiences, however I think usually people are not equipped to interpret them.
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I found with mine that they increased ego and attachment, which are the very things that Buddhism works to diminish. The litmus test I've always favored: is it enlightenment? If you can't answer yes, then move on.

Dream said:
I also question whether people can be truly rational.
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I know I can't. I'm influenced by too many goofy things. But I do what I can.
 
Tao_Equus said:
I like heated discussion, the kind you apparently want to discourage Brian..... good luck on that :rolleyes:
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Heated discussions often veer into personal attacks, which simply aren't welcome.


Raksha said:
FS,

I'm not the least bit surprised. I've observed for years that Christian fundamentalists can be every bit as skeptical as the most hard-boiled atheist/materialist when it comes to other people's beliefs that they don't happen to share, such as reincarnation or astrology. But whenever they gore your sacred cows, it's a whole other story, right?

--Linda
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I used to think a defining difference between liberals and conservatives was that the former are open-minded, and the latter closed-minded.

Unfortunately, IO has especially shown me that liberals are only open-minded to others showing similar beliefs, and will happily attack anyone else for having different beliefs.

What is sincerely sad is that everyone asks for their beliefs to be respected here, and so few dare to respect anyone else's - they complain bitterly when their own beliefs are questioned, but think nothing of attacking others beliefs as well.
 
I said:
Heated discussions often veer into personal attacks, which simply aren't welcome.
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There can be a fine line I agree. I do try to provide a bit more than that though. I had difficulties with FS for a while but because no one really interfered we were able to in short time move beyond them. A forum is in constant flux and it needs room for frustrations to be vented if we do not want a dry, anodyne succour to every crackpot idea to be the hallmark of this site. I gave up even trying to find a site that compares to this one. My opinion is that it is not broken by the natural coming and goings of posters. Snoopy, PoO and Francis will all be back when it suits them. That is as it should be.
 
I used to do astrology charts till it got uncomfortably accurate I even did tarot and stoppped for the same reason. I believe in ghosts and hauntings and UFO's and I believe that some people have different experiences than I do. I had a neighbor once who had a friend that channeled for me and that was the scariest thing I had ever experienced because that "channeled" being knew more than anyone else did about my situation at the time. So guess what.. Im not a sceptic but I do not believe what you believe about it.
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FS,

The keywords there are in your last line: "I do not believe what you believe about it." In other words, you know all about that occult stuff, so you "know" just how BAAAAAD it is. You "know" it comes from the dark side, even if it's accurate. Just like BB "knows" all about feminist sprirituality and Wicca and he "knows" how BAAAAAD it is, how sinful it is, and how the Torah forbids it.

All I can say is...screw that! Screw that whole attitude. I can no more communicate with someone who believes my subjective experiences of synchronicity and non-ordinary reality are of a demonic nature than I can communicate someone who believes they are hallucinations.

I tried to respond to the unedited version of your post yesterday, but Brian removed my reply because he said it looked like a "pointless personal attack." But if I attempted to reply to the edited version, my post wouldn't be any more positive than the last one. So I'll refrain for now.

--Linda
 
Tao_Equus said:
There can be a fine line I agree. I do try to provide a bit more than that though. I had difficulties with FS for a while but because no one really interfered we were able to in short time move beyond them. A forum is in constant flux and it needs room for frustrations to be vented if we do not want a dry, anodyne succour to every crackpot idea to be the hallmark of this site. I gave up even trying to find a site that compares to this one. My opinion is that it is not broken by the natural coming and goings of posters. Snoopy, PoO and Francis will all be back when it suits them. That is as it should be.
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Yes... in accordance with the prophecy.
 
What is sincerely sad is that everyone asks for their beliefs to be respected here, and so few dare to respect anyone else's - they complain bitterly when their own beliefs are questioned, but think nothing of attacking others beliefs as well.
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Look, there are some beliefs I DON'T respect and can't pretend that I do. They have nothing to do with atheism or skepticism, because atheists at least take a live-and-let-live approach to the behavior of others. But I am quite frankly intolerant of the intolerant--i.e. people who believe it is their God-given duty to restrict the rights of others for "religious" reasons. Like that unholy alliance of Mormons and conservative Catholics who pushed through Proposition H8 here in California not long ago.

I refuse to vote for a Christian fundamentalist, a Mormon or an Opus-Dei type conservative Catholic under any circumstances. With more liberal Catholics it's on a case-by-case basis and depends on the individual. But Sarah Palin is a good example of someone I would refuse to vote for purely on the basis of her religious beliefs, even if I agreed with her on other issues. Of course I haven't found any issue I agree with Sarah Palin about yet. It isn't likely to happen either, since a person's religious beliefs are a microcosm of their entire world-view and their attitude towards other people.

If that makes me one of those "intolerant liberals" then so be it.

--Linda
 
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