what does it mean to be Christian ?

GlorytoGod

GlorytoGod

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Given the amount of Christian sects, cults and denominations some of which have vastly different beliefs, what does it really mean to be Christian ?

And can you believe that some fundamentalist Christian deny that Catholics are Christian ?
 
Namaste G2G,

Too funny, I was thinking of starting a thread quite similar, but I think you saved me the effort.

Now mine was to ask how do you spot a Christian. And I think it should be incredibly simple, but my answer just doesn't seem to apply. And as to yours I've got the same answer, 'what does it mean to be a Christian?' To me it means we should be striving to remember and follow always
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Click to expand...
G!d bless everyone, no exceptions or conditions.

To me that is what the above asks for, unconditional love. Not if you accept Jesus as your saviour, not if you do x, y or z for me, not if you take out the garbage, or promise to love me back... simply love one another, period.
 
wil said:
Namaste G2G,

Too funny, I was thinking of starting a thread quite similar, but I think you saved me the effort.

Now mine was to ask how do you spot a Christian. And I think it should be incredibly simple, but my answer just doesn't seem to apply. And as to yours I've got the same answer, 'what does it mean to be a Christian?' To me it means we should be striving to remember and follow always G!d bless everyone, no exceptions or conditions.

To me that is what the above asks for, unconditional love. Not if you accept Jesus as your saviour, not if you do x, y or z for me, not if you take out the garbage, or promise to love me back... simply love one another, period.
Click to expand...

well

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Click to expand...
that could really change the world !
 
Originally, the word "Christian" signified "someone who is like the Christ."

However, the word has been so sloppily applied over the centuries that it no longer has any content whatever; it can mean anything from "fundamentalist" ("We object to everyone except ourelves"), Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, "follower of Jesus not affiliated with any sect," and sometimes, simply, "American."

That is perhaps why Gahdhi so aptly observed: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ." In fact, today the word "Christian" is, for many, a real turn-off.

Discussing some statements made by such luminaries as Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, Eric Elnes asks in his delightful book The Phoenix Affirmations: "Why is it that the word Christian, which should stand for people of extravagant grace and generosity, who are abundantly loving, who are associated with acts of courrage, justice and compassion, has become synonymous with butthead?"

We should offer a nice reward to anyone who comes up with a better word.
 
friendofbill said:
Originally, the word "Christian" signified "someone who is like the Christ."

However, the word has been so sloppily applied over the centuries that it no longer has any content whatever; it can mean anything from "fundamentalist" ("We object to everyone except ourelves"), Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, "follower of Jesus not affiliated with any sect," and sometimes, simply, "American."

That is perhaps why Gahdhi so aptly observed: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ." In fact, today the word "Christian" is, for many, a real turn-off.

Discussing some statements made by such luminaries as Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, Eric Elnes asks in his delightful book The Phoenix Affirmations: "Why is it that the word Christian, which should stand for people of extravagant grace and generosity, who are abundantly loving, who are associated with acts of courrage, justice and compassion, has become synonymous with butthead?"

We should offer a nice reward to anyone who comes up with a better word.
Click to expand...

nice post :)
 
Namaste FreindofBill,

I don't know anyone who feels the words Christian and American are synomonous. Of course we in the US are arrogant enough to think that American only means this country when it actually encompasses 2 continents.

Are you indicating that Jimmy, Pat and Jerry are the type of hypocritical folks that Ghandi was speacking of?
 
friendofbill said:
Originally, the word "Christian" signified "someone who is like the Christ."
Click to expand...

Actually, it was a term coined in Antioch for those who followed the teachings promulgated by the Apostles. There is nothing in the Scriptural use of the term to imply "someone who is like Christ" over "someone who follows the Gospel as related by the Apostles".
 
wil said:
Namaste FreindofBill,

I don't know anyone who feels the words Christian and American are synomonous. Of course we in the US are arrogant enough to think that American only means this country when it actually encompasses 2 continents.

Are you indicating that Jimmy, Pat and Jerry are the type of hypocritical folks that Ghandi was speacking of?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of those who go about proclaiming that "America is a Christian nation," which perhaps it was intended to be by the founders, but which it has not been for well over 100 years. These folks (perhaps there are more of them down here in the south than up north) seem to feel that Jews, Muslims, atheists and other non-Christian folks are here by the suffrance of the "real" (=Christian) Americans.

Yes, I was thinking of Pat, Jimmy and Jerry as examples of what Gandhi was talking about. Pat Robertson,for instance, stating that "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcoplaians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist." Swaggart, weeping at his piano lamenting the sins of evil mankind, while consorting with prostitutes. Falwell with his seething hatred of homosexuals. If you hate gays and want to hang out with prostitutes, that's your prerogative, but please don't claim at the same time to represent the spirit of Jesus of Nazareth. Gandhi saw that, and called us on it. Millions of people today see it, and that is why the churches are struggling to maintain any viable level of membership. People today are experiencing what Elnes called "a deep sense of spiritual homelessness," looking for ay indication that there is a source of real power and light available to them in this dark place, and all they are getting is phony evangelists and churches that spend all their money on themselves and their building funds and their parking lots.

Sorry abut the rant :eek: ...I'll shutup and go away now

Jai Ram
Art
 
Discussing some statements made by such luminaries as Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, Eric Elnes asks in his delightful book The Phoenix Affirmations: "Why is it that the word Christian, which should stand for people of extravagant grace and generosity, who are abundantly loving, who are associated with acts of courrage, justice and compassion, has become synonymous with butthead?"
Click to expand...

Good one! :)

And all too true, unfortunately. I guess Falwell, Robertson et al. haven't done much for the reputation of Christianity over the long run.

--Linda
 
GlorytoGod said:
And can you believe that some fundamentalist Christian deny that Catholics are Christian ?
Click to expand...
In every case I have seen, this comes from groups that rely upon the book Revelation as a crutch for whatever divisive formula they believe. Incidentally, the point of Revelation is to explain what it means to be a Christian! It is called Revelation because the first sentence begins with 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ'. It is no coincidence that elsewhere Jesus is also called 'Emmanuel', and you could also say that Revelation is talking about Emmanuel. It is about how to conduct yourself as a Christian.

Often Revelation gets used to frame someone or something as an evil doomed creature, like when Luther framed the Catholic organization. Sometimes people like to use Revelation as a sort of Nostradamus or Omega Code by which they can predict the future and convince themselves or others of some point of view. (Like Mr. LaHaye) Sometimes they use it to frame science, or Jews, or the internet -- whatever you like. There are many books written that attempt to align the symbols in Revelation with historic or future events, and all of these are probably mostly garbage.

Revelation is convenient for that purpose, because it is so cryptic to those who have not studied the laws of Moses. Sad but I often see Christians like Adam & Eve in a garden with no fruit of knowledge, no law. Some actually fear it like its dangerous. The NT says difference between children and adults is that children drink spiritual milk, but adults can eat spiritual meat. Like malnourished children who never could grow someone with no appreciation for the law cannot deal with a meaty subject as presented in Revelation. They can't digest it because they haven't drunk their milk and grown strong. That is why you will occasionally find groups that use a book like Revelation (or any prophecy book) to prove weird things. They just completely miss the principles and play with their food.
 
The term "christian" was born defining people who were resembling christ in their ways (actions and deeds)....little christs.
That is what christian means to me.
sadly, I have only met a few, but I have met many who wear the tag.
For them (the majority) it is like a political party or a nationality or a fan club, etc, which is grossly lacking in substance and meaning.
 
I've asked various Christians this question over the years and have had different responses. A Pentacostal colleague told me that to be a Christian to him meant to follow the word of Jesus and to preach his message/convert non Christians. Another person I asked (Church of England) said that it was a private thing and that she did not care about the intricacies of the Bible, rather what its overall message is - of living life the way God would want you to.
 
GlorytoGod said:
Dream

what do you think of this then

Are Roman Catholics Christian? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

thats what I'm talking about, I hate it, I was reading a book by Bill Johnson or was it a sermon cant remember, and he started saying how Catholics are not Christians and since then I just cant touch is teaching anymore :(
Click to expand...
Its too bad that a group calling itself Christian Apologetics doesn't actually understand what the word Catholic comes from. On the same website, I read this on the apologetics page:

CARM on apologetics said:
Therefore, Christian apologetics is that branch of Christianity that deals with answering any and all critics who oppose or question the revelation of God in Christ and the Bible. It can include studying such subjects as biblical manuscript transmission, philosophy, biology, mathematics, evolution, and logic. But it can also consist of simply giving an answer to a question about Jesus or a Bible passage.
Click to expand...

From that I gather that this is one of those organizations which derives itself as the authority on the revelation of God in Christ and the Bible. To take such a position is anti-christian. Beginning with John the Baptist and proceeding all the way through the gospels unto John the Beloved, the message of Jesus opposes such an attitude. Finally John aka 'The beloved disciple' explains that this attitude is the spirit of antichrist, which brings division. In fact, all of the Christian scriptures emphasize not judging others and instead of spouting wisdom to spout good works, but CARM feels that this is not enough. CARM does not believe that Christ has come in the flesh, that a man must still teach his brother. If CARM had a clue, it would not condemn itself by saying such things.

Beginning with John 1, its recorded the Baptist testified that he himself was not the light, merely a witness to it. This is the pattern for all Christians to follow. In 1 John 1, by the same author, again speaking of that light of truth and sins of deviation from truth

  • 1 John 1:7-10 "but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
But CARM has clearly denied itself to have any significant doctrinal errors. It declares itself an apologist for truth! To be perfectly clear, the above passage is about admitting no religious authority on truth to men or women, which are corruptible, and this is what it means to confess that Jesus is the Christ. You must confess this very thing, that you are not the dole'r of truth, because Christ has come in the flesh. 1 John continues a bit and referring directly to Jeremiah 31:34 says
  • 1 John 2:20-21 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth.
Which is referring to Jeremiah 31:34
  • And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
I affirm to you that the next verse in John is speaking of CARM and others that deny Jesus by placing themselves upon a pedestal while claiming to be apologists of Jesus. They are causing division in opposition to Christ, which is Universal in character. Starting with Jesus, the teaching of God became personal between man and God, and disciples could not judge each other. That is why the church was considered to be Catholic, one body made of many different parts.
2 John 2:22_27 said:
22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses
the Son has the Father also.
24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what
you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in
the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.
26 I write this to you about those who would deceive you;
27 but the anointing which you received from him abides in you,
and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Click to expand...
Finally, this teaching of having no human religious authority is called Peter, and it is what allowed the Catholic church to absorb other religions over the centuries. It recognized, appropriately, that the spirit blows here and there. You cannot tell where it comes from. You cannot tell where it is going.

  • Matthew 16:17-18 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
  • Romans 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
  • Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
 
I just think the whole terminology is interesting.

Christian Apologetics which sounds like folks apologizing for Christians are those trying to justfiy the sometimes unjustifiable inconsistencies.

Whereas Scriptural Criticism is what those folks do that try to ascertain what the original texts were and which were added/distorted/omitted...not being at all critical of the original scripture, just attempting to find it and disclose the fraud.
 
Dream said:
Its too bad that a group calling itself Christian Apologetics doesn't actually understand what the word Catholic comes from. On the same website, I read this on the apologetics page:



From that I gather that this is one of those organizations which derives itself as the authority on the revelation of God in Christ and the Bible. To take such a position is anti-christian. Beginning with John the Baptist and proceeding all the way through the gospels unto John the Beloved, the message of Jesus opposes such an attitude. Finally John aka 'The beloved disciple' explains that this attitude is the spirit of antichrist, which brings division. In fact, all of the Christian scriptures emphasize not judging others and instead of spouting wisdom to spout good works, but CARM feels that this is not enough. CARM does not believe that Christ has come in the flesh, that a man must still teach his brother. If CARM had a clue, it would not condemn itself by saying such things.

Beginning with John 1, its recorded the Baptist testified that he himself was not the light, merely a witness to it. This is the pattern for all Christians to follow. In 1 John 1, by the same author, again speaking of that light of truth and sins of deviation from truth

  • 1 John 1:7-10 "but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
But CARM has clearly denied itself to have any significant doctrinal errors. It is having delusions of grandeur. To be perfectly clear, the above passage is about admitting no religious authority on truth to men or women, which are corruptible, and this is what it means to confess that Jesus is the Christ. You must confess this very thing, that you are not the owner of truth. 1 John continues a bit and referring directly to Jeremiah 31:34 says
  • 1 John 2:20-21 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth.
Which is referring to Jeremiah 31:34
  • And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
I affirm to you that the next verse in John is speaking of CARM and others that deny Jesus by placing themselves upon a pedestal while claiming to be apologists of Jesus. They are causing division in opposition to Christ, which is Universal in character. Starting with Jesus, the teaching of God became personal between man and God, and disciples could not judge each other. That is why the church was considered to be Catholic, one body made of many different parts. Finally, this teaching of having no human religious authority is called Peter, and it is what allowed the Catholic church to absorb other religions over the centuries. It recognized, appropriately, that the spirit blows here and there. You cannot tell where it comes from. You cannot tell where it is going.

  • Matthew 16:17-18 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
  • Romans 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
  • Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Click to expand...

I do not want to get in a word war with you dream about my beliefs and yours ..my heart is not in it. It seems recently you are making it obvious that we are on different spectrums..Thats ok. I will only defend against what you say in this. That we would agree that English is no match for Greek. There is Judge to condemn and Judge to identify in the Greek. In English however.. its all Judge. We are called to judge to identify as in fruits and only God can judge to condemn.

example

Anakrino - examine or judge to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question
1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

Katakrino - to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment to condemn
Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

CARM does not claim authority of itself its claims are based on the authority of scripture by their own words. They pattern themselves after the Bereans which is basically testing ALL things against scripture and unfortunately like everything Catholicism comes under the radar. I refer to them all the time and personally have never found them to be scripturally in error. This does NOT mean they are judging to condemn.. they are judging to identify in truth and love.

We are called to test the fruits... but guess what.. your fruits are different than mine and I am ok with that and you will never find me blasting your beliefs or Catholicism because if you claim Jesus as your Lord and if they claim Jesus as their Lord than they and you are my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus and I will not put a stumbling block in front of my brother because of my meat.

Merry Christmas and Peace to You, Dream.
 
Thanks Faithfulservant.

Jeremiah 31:34 is where it begins!

The Bereans were commended for checking the scriptures for themselves, rather than relying upon priests; which would have been the politically correct thing to do. The priests were concerned the world would turn upside-down if they weren't in charge of keeping the doctrines clarified. This was the attitude of 'the builders,' but what the builders rejected has become the capstone. This has always been difficult for people to accept, but Jesus said to break yourself upon it. The body of Christ is made up of many different types of people and opinions.

Mat 21:44-45
He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Mat 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: " 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes' ?
 
Dream said:
Its too bad that a group calling itself Christian Apologetics doesn't actually understand what the word Catholic comes from. On the same website, I read this on the apologetics page:



From that I gather that this is one of those organizations which derives itself as the authority on the revelation of God in Christ and the Bible. To take such a position is anti-christian. Beginning with John the Baptist and proceeding all the way through the gospels unto John the Beloved, the message of Jesus opposes such an attitude. Finally John aka 'The beloved disciple' explains that this attitude is the spirit of antichrist, which brings division. In fact, all of the Christian scriptures emphasize not judging others and instead of spouting wisdom to spout good works, but CARM feels that this is not enough. CARM does not believe that Christ has come in the flesh, that a man must still teach his brother. If CARM had a clue, it would not condemn itself by saying such things.

Beginning with John 1, its recorded the Baptist testified that he himself was not the light, merely a witness to it. This is the pattern for all Christians to follow. In 1 John 1, by the same author, again speaking of that light of truth and sins of deviation from truth

  • 1 John 1:7-10 "but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
But CARM has clearly denied itself to have any significant doctrinal errors. It declares itself an apologist for truth! To be perfectly clear, the above passage is about admitting no religious authority on truth to men or women, which are corruptible, and this is what it means to confess that Jesus is the Christ. You must confess this very thing, that you are not the dole'r of truth, because Christ has come in the flesh. 1 John continues a bit and referring directly to Jeremiah 31:34 says
  • 1 John 2:20-21 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth.
Which is referring to Jeremiah 31:34
  • And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
I affirm to you that the next verse in John is speaking of CARM and others that deny Jesus by placing themselves upon a pedestal while claiming to be apologists of Jesus. They are causing division in opposition to Christ, which is Universal in character. Starting with Jesus, the teaching of God became personal between man and God, and disciples could not judge each other. That is why the church was considered to be Catholic, one body made of many different parts. Finally, this teaching of having no human religious authority is called Peter, and it is what allowed the Catholic church to absorb other religions over the centuries. It recognized, appropriately, that the spirit blows here and there. You cannot tell where it comes from. You cannot tell where it is going.

  • Matthew 16:17-18 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
  • Romans 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
  • Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Dream, I will have to read through your post a number of times I think to understand what you are getting at.
 
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