Jewish Free School Racist?

17th,

the school didn't exactly say that. They said, if you don't have either a Jewish mama or a valid conversion then you're not Jewish and we will give priority to Jews first before considering other applicants. The courts said, that qualifies as racism and you can't do it. Now the school is giving priority to students based on level of observance which is a non-Jewish criteria for Jewishness.
 
that was what the article l posted was going on about, the continual ambiquity..in the comments one gave the many 'in house' descriptions given to the different 'kinds' of jews and noted 'given that we don't really know about the kosherness of the long-ago conversions of ANYONE's ancestors.' So rather than bloodline admissions should it be on committment via being actively involved in an orthodox shul? seems a catch 22 situation since what orthodox rabbi would convert the child; l mean how easy is it, since the mum presumably hadn't much of a chance and so had to go reform?

btw they are called voluntary aided schools; l wonder how many jewish faith based schools there are, since this one is over subscribed, are the governing bodies digging their heels in in not opening more [ie are they concerned with, say, funding for muslim only schools?].
 
dauer said:
17th,

the school didn't exactly say that. They said, if you don't have either a Jewish mama or a valid conversion then you're not Jewish and we will give priority to Jews first before considering other applicants. The courts said, that qualifies as racism and you can't do it. Now the school is giving priority to students based on level of observance which is a non-Jewish criteria for Jewishness.
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But.... But.... But.... It's a jewish freaking school :/ They should naturally be allowed to give priority to jews. I think PC is just BS. If you wish to set something up primarily for a certain people, race, culture, faith whatever you should be alowed to... why is there this idea we HAVE to push people together.... :/

Native: Muslim only schools would be another idea I'd have no problem with... then you wouldn't have the "you can't dress like a ninja when going to school" rule.. And whatever other laws and rules that will spawn from mixing cultures... Keep um seperate ;) It works out better for everyone.
 
NA said:
that was what the article l posted was going on about, the continual ambiquity..in the comments one gave the many 'in house' descriptions given to the different 'kinds' of jews and noted 'given that we don't really know about the kosherness of the long-ago conversions of ANYONE's ancestors.' So rather than bloodline admissions should it be on committment via being actively involved in an orthodox shul? seems a catch 22 situation since what orthodox rabbi would convert the child; l mean how easy is it, since the mum presumably hadn't much of a chance and so had to go reform?
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NA,

I'm aware of all of that and don't really think it matters. I don't agree with their definition of what makes a Jew. I would consider the child's conversion valid. Even though I do believe in certain standards for conversion (not theirs) I would still recognize another person's conversion as valid whether or not it meets my standard so long as it was performed by a rabbi. But I do believe at the same time that they should have the right to make that determination for themselves rather than have it pushed upon them by the gov't.

btw they are called voluntary aided schools; l wonder how many jewish faith based schools there are, since this one is over subscribed, are the governing bodies digging their heels in in not opening more [ie are they concerned with, say, funding for muslim only schools?].
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I think that's a good question. I think it's additionally problematic that England has a chief rabbi and I wonder if there are any politics surrounding him that have prevented the creation of other Jewish schools. JFS has been around for a very long time. My grandfather attended it when my family was in the UK. I don't know much about the Jewish faith based schools there, their numbers, etc. Maybe BB will see this and be able to say a bit about that. I think that non-Orthodox Jews should be able to have their own school.

But.... But.... But.... It's a jewish freaking school :/ They should naturally be allowed to give priority to jews. I think PC is just BS. If you wish to set something up primarily for a certain people, race, culture, faith whatever you should be alowed to... why is there this idea we HAVE to push people together.... :/
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Yeah, exactly.

Native: Muslim only schools would be another idea I'd have no problem with...
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Me neither.
 
Segregation is what divides us as human beings.
Now, more than ever we need to focus on what makes us the same, not on what separates.
Tear down the walls.
[youtube]AA6nJy2nY7o[/youtube]
 
I'm not saying lets build ghettos and walls and segregate... Just saying... -we- need -our- space.... lol

Want to go to a mixed school then do it.... But don't whine about not getting priority in a school made by (in this case) jews for jews....

I strongly encourage faiths/peoples to have their -own- identity and communities... This doesn't mean we cannot be at peace... Does it? It doesn't hatred or segregation or racism in my opinon :/ It can eliminate these problems lol.

-edit-

I think one of the fears people really dedicated to a faith or whatever have.... If you start letting -those- kids come to this school... You will have to start sacraficing your ways and rituals to fit others in, you'll have to start losing your identity....
 
I think one of the fears people really dedicated to a faith or whatever have.... If you start letting -those- kids come to this school... You will have to start sacraficing your ways and rituals to fit others in, you'll have to start losing your identity....
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Thank God...the beginning of the end of "us and them".
To be fair this should be applied to all groups equally.
So then you could go to an all black school .... if you were white....and vice versa, etc.
We are all one.
That being said I think that it should be done with respect for diversity so that if someone who was not of that persuasion would be going to that school to learn within its framework and not undermine the institution in question.
So a percentage should be allowed for purposes of cross-cultural experience.
 
Although its a right to have a choice of schooling available to your child, and people actually move to gain admission to some of these schools, the reality [logistics/finances] probably inhibits the ideal. I think this country promotes multi cultural pluralism rather than segregation. If you want your child to go to a school whose ethos is judaic there is a reason for that; they would not want christian or muslim children there as the whole structure of the school is centred around 'identity with judaism and israel'.

To ensure the 'purity' [according to orthodox standards] admissions of committed jewish students they would have to go private [what we call 'public' schools here, not comprehensive state schools, which is what this is, hence the control coming from govt]; but this may inhibit the very people they want ie committed but poor othodox jews with large families and attract the richer but more liberal denominations?. As Sacks says, a complex situation to be resolved with wider implications.

Personally it stands to reason if you are very religious to want be educated within that ambit. But likewise why should the best education be only for the ones that can afford [despite bursaries and handouts etc]; here my socialism comes out - all children should get the very best education a society can provide whether rich or poor, jewish or catholic. As tax payer education and health are at the top.
 
shawn said:
Thank God...the beginning of the end of "us and them".
To be fair this should be applied to all groups equally.
So then you could go to an all black school .... if you were white....and vice versa, etc.
We are all one.
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Yes to many it is positive thing... To others though that thought is terrifying man lol.
 
17th Angel said:
If I truly believed in a god... And I was from the bloodline of his chosen... If I gave up my identity and ways to accomidate man, there "wouldn't be" a future. Not a good one.
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But anyone can convert into the religion of the "chosen" so it really has nothing to do with any "blood-line".
 
Well some think so lol. Others don't. Like sure we can slam on those cool hats and side burns Shawn and go down to the synagogue tomorrow morning for the service... And yeah that doesn't mean a thing. To others though it ain't as simple as that. *shrugs*
 
17th Angel said:
If I truly believed in a god... And I was from the bloodline of his chosen... If I gave up my identity and ways to accomidate man, there "wouldn't be" a future. Not a good one.
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thats a nub equally applied to all those religions who consider themselves divinely inspired by the correct revelations; we have to scrape away the encrustations to get at the common hermeneutic that all can share and agree on; nationalism rears its ugly head to compete with religions one, its all we've historically been fed so its hard to extricate from that veil of reality...ruled by the past and not long sighted enough for the future and burying the head in the present [oh dear a pessimistic humanistic day!]
 
17th Angel said:
If I truly believed in a god... And I was from the bloodline of his chosen... If I gave up my identity and ways to accomidate man, there "wouldn't be" a future. Not a good one.
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That is wrong for a few reasons. As shawn says, Judaism accepts converts. The converts are equally Jewish (in some communities there are contrasting attitudes about converts but those aren't attitudes based on Jewish law). Secondly, there's a principle, dina d'malchuta dina or "the law of the land is the law" ( Dina de-Malkhuta Dina ) . In this case I'm not sure it has to come into play at all. They're defining the way that Jews define Jews as racist in its application as a standard for admissions priority to a Jewish school. I don't see how it contradicts halachah at all. I doubt there's any halachah on standards for admission to Jewish schools. The ruling's merely discriminatory against Jews.
 
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17th Angel said:
Shouldn't we leave them to it though native? Isn't it there right? Why should they have this forced on them? Is sure can bee seen as unity but, it is just someone elses ideals being used to attempt to destroy anothers....
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well yeh, but thats why this issue is interesting and spills over into lots of other issues...'glad tidings we bring, to you and your king'...!!
 
I was just thinking native... Like say I went to live out east where ever it is strongly say muslim.... And I go to one of their schools demanding they change this and that and this to suite me, and gie me priority, you think they would?

You think there would be hands around the nation for the "injustice" to me if they didn't? Just a thought.... *shrugs*
 
If there is a ruling which makes schools accept people not of their choosing, then it should apply across the board to all the other exclusive schools as well.
It should be fair and equitable and equally applied.
Think of all the cross-cultural experiences which this would open up for students.
 
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