Aging

shawn

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Practical Ethics: Why We Need a War on Aging

The goal should be to extend the HEALTHY, PRODUCTIVE lifespan, not to just keep people alive longer on respirators or in old people's homes. This is embodied in the concept not of life span but “health span”.

Billions of dollars have been spent preparing for a flu epidemic (which killed very few). The Spanish flu killed 20 million people. Aging kills 30 million every year. It is the most under-researched cause of death and suffering relative to its significance.
An interesting article which asks 2 pertinent questions:
1) Do people have an obligation to die and turn the world over to the next generation?

2)
Many people fear that a longer life would result in boredom and a gradual loss of meaning.
Do you think this is so, or not, and why?
 
Why are people afraid of ageing and dying. ? It will happen, it should happen. Its natural.

If we eliminate ageing and dying, should we curb the birthrate?
 
Why are people afraid of ageing and dying. ? It will happen, it should happen. Its natural.

If we eliminate ageing and dying, should we curb the birthrate?
IMO it is not about fear, but experience.
By the time one gets enough knowledge about the world they are usually too old to do anything with it except make the attempt to pass it on to younger people who usually don't give a rip about what the oldsters are telling them.
As I highlighted in the OP it has to do with having an enriched life.

Anyone who has ever had any experience at any time with mind expanding compounds or technologies, knows that normal life is a life diminished (like driving on low beams....low resolution).....that there is exponentially MORE, and it would be so excellent if we could figure out how to access that without technological or chemical means.

If life spans were extended we would not have to curb birth rates as there is plenty of space.
And if we were able to enhance and improve the general intelligence of the species we would come up with much better methods of living, commerce, etc.
There are lots of good ideas as to how this may be done, but the percentage of people who are aware of such things and are pushing for such things are far outweighed by the nominally "retarded" masses who are herded about like sheep (to the general detriment of the species at large).
 
I'm sure the war on aging will be just as big a success as the war on drugs and the war on terror.
One thing I have noticed at the half century mark is that I care less and less about the quibbles and conundrums that people bother themselves with. At some point this body/mind will cease and then the work will be done. If people could just stop and become still and silent for a while many of the problems we face would erase themselves.
 
I'm sure the war on aging will be just as big a success as the war on drugs and the war on terror.
One thing I have noticed at the half century mark is that I care less and less about the quibbles and conundrums that people bother themselves with. At some point this body/mind will cease and then the work will be done. If people could just stop and become still and silent for a while many of the problems we face would erase themselves.
I think that "plan of action" would be a better phrase as the wars they have waged on various things have not turned out all that well (like the examples you mentioned).

Here is something I found:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a genetic structure called the telomere. It’s the mechanism that controls aging. It’s also the key to total health.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What are your telomeres? They’re protective tips that cap the ends of your DNA:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
telo.jpg
[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Each time your cells divide, your telomeres get shorter. When your telomeres run down, cell division stops and your life ends.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For the first time in history, we can halt and even reverse this process.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The secret lies in an enzyme called telomerase. Telomerase makes your telomeres longer. That means your cells actually get younger as time goes by![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Simply put, telomerase turns back the hands of time. It’s in every cell of your body —but the gene that makes it turns off as you age. [/FONT]
 
I found some more related info:
For a review of small molecule telomerase activators and inhibitors, see
Supplemental Notes 3 - Anti-Aging Medicine, and also
http://greenwood.s5.com/longevity.html#(7) for a general discussion of the problem
of telomerase activation and inhibition in life extension therapy.
I was pleased to get the first TA Sciences newsletters in 2007 from Greta Blackburn specifying
a mean telomere length increase of 230 base pairs in granulocytes (an immune cell that circulates in the blood)
after 3 months of treatment at 5 mg/day of TA-65, which I suspect is cycloastragenol based
on Geron patent literature. Note that TA Sciences, using 5 mg/day TA-65 (cycloastragenol?)
on a 3-month-on, 3-month-off cycle for a year measures 460 bp/year telomere growth in blood granulocytes,
while aging normally subtracts about 50 bp/year, so that on TA-65 the telomere biotimer moves backwards in time
about 9 times as fast as it goes forwards when "aging".
Thus one can devise a treatment strategy that nets about a decade of life for each year invested, as far as numbers of available cell divisions are concerned.

Geron published its milestone document
Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity in 2005. It is online at
http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&...530ecb46d14e48b .
I found it by doing extensive searching in the Spring of 2007 after visiting the TA Sciences site,
which mentioned that TA-65 was obtained from astragalus extract. Several other groups were working on telomerase
activators, such as the Biogerontology group in St. Petersburg that discovered the pineal gland bioregulator associated
with telomere homeostasis, epitalon, or Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly. By now I have listed about 30 telomerase activators and
perhaps 25 telomerase inhibitors, and have concluded that cyclic telomerase activation similar to the Patton Protocol
might be implemented in two-week pulses, two weeks on telomerase activators without telomerase inhibitors,
and subsequently two weeks without telomerase activators but including telomerase inhibitors like resveratrol,
quercetin, curcumin, vitamin E, green tea, garlic, and fish oil. Some of these telomerase inhibitors have desirable
properties that we don't want to miss out on, so a tight cycle has some advantages. I note that telomerase
activators keep telomerase turned on from 24 hours after application to up to 75 hours after stopping activation.
I have been trying to use 5 mg/day of astragalosides from GAIA Astragalus extract in experiments,
and have been considering using 10 mg/day in two 5 mg doses, since 5 mg of astragalosides conveys a palpable
tingle or turn-on when taken without breakfast or just before bedtime. TA-65 would probably be superior, because
it is the smallest astragaloside molecule that activates telomerase. Astragaloside iv may evidently also be used at 50-100 mg/day,
and I note that chitin makes astragaloside iv in astragalus extract more bioavailable. Of course, controlled
experiments need to be done to get a feel for the results that can be obtained with commercially available
telomerase activators, and TA Sciences has made a great contribution in this direction.
Since March 2009 I have substituted 6 x 200 mg/day Solaray Astragalus Root Extract (1200 mg/day) in order to approach
5 mg/day astragalosides. This dose satisfies my toxicology checks and initial calculations showed that 5 mg/day astragalosides
might be attained with this prescription. Otherwise, I use 5 mg/day arginine with 1 mg/day citrulline with exercise to elevate my
nitric oxide levels as recommended by nobelist Louis B. Ignarro in his book NO More Heart Disease. Nitric Oxide
produces telomerase activation in endothelial cells lining arteries according to separate papers by Vasa and Hayashi,
helping to stave off atherosclerotic plaques and other undesirable phenomena associated with replicative senescence
in endothelial cells, refreshing the vascular endothelium with telomeric DNA repair.

 
And a bit more:
The particular astragalus species that TA-sciences works with is: Astragalus propinquus (Maybe)(The paper referred to later talks about extraction of astragalosides I-VII from: Astragalus membranaceus via methenol refluxion)

The major active constituent in astragalus is astragaloside IV.

Reading from Geron's: Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity (someone had to read and make sense of the thing)
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=200...;DISPLAY=CLAIMS
They patent the use of 3 formulas:
Embodiments of formula 1:
QUOTE
Exemplary compounds of formula I include astragaloside IV, cycloastragenol, astragenol, astragaloside IV 16-one, cycloastragenoI6-I3-Dglucopyranoside, and cycloastragenoI3-I3-D-xylopyranoside. In selected embodiments, the compound is selected from astragaloside IV, cycloastragenol, astragenol, and astragaloside IV 16-one. In one embodiment, the compound is astragaloside IV.

Embodiments of formula 2 seems to be lots of variations of of the chemical formula in formula one where there can be alkoxy, hydroxy, glucoside and keto groups substituted at various positions. This seems to be a patent of future small molecule forumlations and is not likely part of TA-65 from what I can tell.

Principle Exemplary Compounds specifically enumerated:
QUOTE
1 (astragaloside IV)
2 (cycloastragenol),
3 (astragenol)
4 (astragaloside IV 16-one)
5 (20R,24S-epoxy-3B, 16B,25-trihydroxy-9B-methyl-19norlanost-l,5-diene)
6 (cyc1oastragenoI6-13-D-glucopyranoside)
7 (cycloastragenol 3-13D-xylopyranoside)
8 (ginsenoside RH1).

Any of these should produce significant telomerase activity. The in-vitro studies seem to have been done with DMSO + Compound mentioned above.

On formulation and (in vitro?) concentrations to have telomerase lengthening efficacy:
QUOTE
A preferred compound offormula I, II or ill above, when formulated in a solvent at a concentration of 1 ug/ml or less, is effective to produce a level of telomerase activity in keratinocytes or fibroblasts, as measured in a TRAP assay, at least 50% greater than the level in said cells treated with said solvent, as measured in a TRAP assay as described herein. In further preferred embodiments, the compound is effective to produce a level of telomerase activity in keratinocytes or fibroblasts, as measured in a TRAP assay, at least 100% greater than the level in said cells treated with said solvent, as measured in a TRAP assay as described herein.

On topical formulation:
QUOTE
The topical formulation typically comprises one or more components selected from the group consisting of an emulsifier, a thickener, and a skin emollient. Such compositions may be used for treatment of wounds or other acute or chronic conditions of the epidermis.


I could delve into the extraction process that they describe involving Astragalus membranaceus which produces many products which fit into the formula I-III descriptions. Once initial extraction is done further chemical modifications can be done to slightly alter the chemical structure of any given substance.

Conclusion: Despite how unprofessional and all around sketchy Ta-Sciences is, Geron did their homework and it shows. I have only read about 25% of their 75 page paper but it is damn impressive work. And the note for the masses: astragaloside IV should do the job just fine.
 
1) Do people have an obligation to die and turn the world over to the next generation?

Outrageous. How many ways can I say NO?

2) Many people fear that a longer life would result in boredom and a gradual loss of meaning.
Do you think this is so, or not, and why?

No. Why should it? Issues of boredom and meaning relate to the individual, and are not therefore "generational."

walks off, shaking head...:(

s.
 
Does PRODUCTIVE lifespan mean a productive economic unit to service the system?

s.
 
Does PRODUCTIVE lifespan mean a productive economic unit to service the system?

s.

Nope, it means when it is all said and done, can you look back and say " You know, all in all I had a really good time. Thanks! "
 
An interesting article which asks 2 pertinent questions:
1) Do people have an obligation to die and turn the world over to the next generation?


No, but I believe we have an obligation to our planet and other species to not overpopulate it. So if we extend our lifespan, we should reduce our birthrate. We need to stop treating procreation as if it is just something that happens and is always a good thing, because we're creating environmental and social problems by having more people than we have resources. In my opinion, we can have a high deathrate and high birthrate, or a low deathrate and low birthrate. But anything out of balance is in opposition to our responsibility as humans to use our intelligence in a way that minimizes harm to each other and our earth.

2) Many people fear that a longer life would result in boredom and a gradual loss of meaning.
Do you think this is so, or not, and why?


No. Boredom and meaning are based on individual choice and determination. There is plenty to learn, do, be, and think about in the world. Plenty of people to have relationships with. Plenty of hobbies, occupations, and places to see. If people are bored or find life meaningless, it is because they choose to be so (or because they are clinically depressed or otherwise ill).

I will say, however, that one problem with a greatly expanded lifespan is the issue of work. Most people grow bored with doing only one thing as it is. We'd need an economy and educational system that would allow a cycling in and out of occupations so people didn't go nuts doing the same thing over and over for a gazillion years.

Actually, I think we already need this, since many people are working 50-ish years. That's a long time to do only one thing unless you are one of the rare ones whose occupation is a vocation and you have a deep-seated desire to perfect it.
 
IMO it is not about fear, but experience.
By the time one gets enough knowledge about the world they are usually too old to do anything with it except make the attempt to pass it on to younger people who usually don't give a rip about what the oldsters are telling them.
As I highlighted in the OP it has to do with having an enriched life.

Anyone who has ever had any experience at any time with mind expanding compounds or technologies, knows that normal life is a life diminished (like driving on low beams....low resolution).....that there is exponentially MORE, and it would be so excellent if we could figure out how to access that without technological or chemical means.

If life spans were extended we would not have to curb birth rates as there is plenty of space.
And if we were able to enhance and improve the general intelligence of the species we would come up with much better methods of living, commerce, etc.
There are lots of good ideas as to how this may be done, but the percentage of people who are aware of such things and are pushing for such things are far outweighed by the nominally "retarded" masses who are herded about like sheep (to the general detriment of the species at large).



Oh my!!!!!!! I wonder who would decide how much intelligence is sufficient? And then, what about those born or with the potential to be born with certian birth "defects"?
I think there already have been a few in history that have attempted to "cull" the "retarded masses"!!! Hmmmmmmm, Adolph Hitler is one that springs to mind!!!!!!


BAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAA (OH, in case you dont get it.... I guess I'm speaking in sheep!!)
 
Oh my!!!!!!! I wonder who would decide how much intelligence is sufficient? And then, what about those born or with the potential to be born with certian birth "defects"?
I think there already have been a few in history that have attempted to "cull" the "retarded masses"!!! Hmmmmmmm, Adolph Hitler is one that springs to mind!!!!!!


BAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAA (OH, in case you dont get it.... I guess I'm speaking in sheep!!)


Here you go Grey, more information than you could want ;)

I disagree with Shawn on one point; the idea that there is "More" we could be experiencing due to being on "low beam" as it were.
I have yet to see the human race put into play that which it already is in possesion of. Our political interaction is largely juvenile and petty, established religious organizations exist largely to push their own agenda on others, and war is still seen as a good solution to conflict.
 
I disagree with Shawn on one point; the idea that there is "More" we could be experiencing due to being on "low beam" as it were.
I have yet to see the human race put into play that which it already is in possesion of. Our political interaction is largely juvenile and petty, established religious organizations exist largely to push their own agenda on others, and war is still seen as a good solution to conflict.
So you think that what we are doing is already as good as it gets?

Personal experience and many reports from others lead me to believe that we function "normally" at the low end of the performance spectrum due to inherent design flaws (perhaps intentional).
Just because we as a species are not attaining to our full potential does not mean that we have no more to realize.


But if that idea floats your boat............believe what you will.
 
So you think that what we are doing is already as good as it gets?

Personal experience and many reports from others lead me to believe that we function "normally" at the low end of the performance spectrum due to inherent design flaws (perhaps intentional).
Just because we as a species are not attaining to our full potential does not mean that we have no more to realize.


But if that idea floats your boat............believe what you will.

No, it isn't about belief Shawn, it is about half a century of experience with the human race. They simply don't use what they have so why strive for more? The idea is absurd. But go ahead, dream away, you and Aldous Huxley...
 
No, it isn't about belief Shawn, it is about half a century of experience with the human race. They simply don't use what they have so why strive for more? The idea is absurd. But go ahead, dream away, you and Aldous Huxley...
Well, just because the greater masses are in general quite stupid (in that they have no desire to use what they have) does not negate the fact that
so much more

is available to those who will make the effort.

I see it as quite frustrating really.
But I will still hold onto the dream.
[youtube]nWoRCtFCkwA[/youtube]
Maybe that makes me out as a fool.............
[youtube]WIsou0IRIQU[/youtube]
 
No, it isn't about belief Shawn, it is about half a century of experience with the human race. They simply don't use what they have so why strive for more? The idea is absurd. But go ahead, dream away, you and Aldous Huxley...

I think using what we have would be the first step toward striving for more.

If we aren't using it, we don't have it yet. When we get it, we will use it.

There are individuals that strive for something better, and they are largely the ones that drag everyone else with them (sometimes kicking and screaming). Yes, many of our actions as a species are juvenile. But we sometimes forget that we've made huge strides forward in the last bit. Just a short while ago, people were legally enslaved all over the world and women largely were without rights. Go back a bit farther and it was not uncommon to torture people in the "justice" system and to burn/crush/etc. heretics and protestors. Not to mention our idea of sanitation was to bathe once a year.

It isn't a perfect world or even a particularly good one, but I think these days we get so jaded about progress that we forget what we've achieved as a species just in the last couple centuries. Most of that was achieved not through the masses "getting it" but through individuals who had the vision to self-actualize, to mature, and to lead movements.

And these people exist all over the place today. Maybe they aren't a majority, but they aren't that rare. People don't have to be super-visible Mother Theresa types to be relatively enlightened, compassionate activists. I deal with people in little non-profits every day that are working hard to address others' needs, to fight for justice and sustainability, to learn better ways to drag the public along with them.

The masses still may be sheep and/or zombies, but nevertheless, they have been dragged into civil rights, women's rights, and so on. When I look at humanity, I think that it is likely it will eventually go to hell in a hand-basket, so to speak. But there is a lot of potential there, and you just never know when critical mass will be around the corner...
 
Oh my!!!!!!! I wonder who would decide how much intelligence is sufficient? And then, what about those born or with the potential to be born with certian birth "defects"?
I think there already have been a few in history that have attempted to "cull" the "retarded masses"!!! Hmmmmmmm, Adolph Hitler is one that springs to mind!!!!!!


BAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAA (OH, in case you dont get it.... I guess I'm speaking in sheep!!)


...and criminals sent off to distant islands, leaving the home land law-abiding...

<ducks behind sofa>

s.
 
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