Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
and all of this has nothing to do with the topic you originally posted
Quran gives permission to use modern facilities?
- Thread starter Bhaktajan II
- Start date
You are attempting to have a rational conversation with an intentionally irrational extremist. Unless you present a quote from the Quran that specifically states "Allah says that Muslims may use airplanes", using the exact word "airplane" (in Arabic, we can hope), the extremist will keep claiming that Muslims must be prohibited from using airplanes.
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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Thou shall not kill [I says nothing about Thou shall not kill and thou shall not eat the dead]
Goodnews, Dogs may sniff butts and proudly be mans' best friend & anathema to Muslims.
Master Dogbrain,
You are bereft of knowldge of history:
-China's 1412 maritine armada expidition to the west yielded to interest to the then emperor.
-Japan stayed isolated from outside influence.
-Peter the Great [of Russia] had to make concerted national efforts to catch up with the wests modernity.
-Tibet has something special coveted by China: Tibet, lock/stock/barrel.
The expansion of technology to replace 'manpower' leaves the masses without a means to make a living except to create a war state ---[the Mid-East Arab States].
-the lusts that accrue from industrial development is to get further & further from the sublime agrarian culture that is ideal & preferred.
"How you gonning to keep them down on the farm after they see ole gay Paris?" ---this is the bane of inculcating consumerism among societies that eat salted-cured meats & married first cousins.
-Just as Movie theatre's rate for Adult content; so also, Oppressed regimes censor what is allowable for public consumption.
-Dogbrain may be a publisher of homosexual pornagraphy and holds large quantities of Pharmacutical Stocks and owns several houses of ill-repute in Belgium ---so He has a right to fight for the liberty he requires to exist.
Goodnews, Dogs may sniff butts and proudly be mans' best friend & anathema to Muslims.
Master Dogbrain,
You are bereft of knowldge of history:
-China's 1412 maritine armada expidition to the west yielded to interest to the then emperor.
-Japan stayed isolated from outside influence.
-Peter the Great [of Russia] had to make concerted national efforts to catch up with the wests modernity.
-Tibet has something special coveted by China: Tibet, lock/stock/barrel.
The expansion of technology to replace 'manpower' leaves the masses without a means to make a living except to create a war state ---[the Mid-East Arab States].
-the lusts that accrue from industrial development is to get further & further from the sublime agrarian culture that is ideal & preferred.
"How you gonning to keep them down on the farm after they see ole gay Paris?" ---this is the bane of inculcating consumerism among societies that eat salted-cured meats & married first cousins.
-Just as Movie theatre's rate for Adult content; so also, Oppressed regimes censor what is allowable for public consumption.
-Dogbrain may be a publisher of homosexual pornagraphy and holds large quantities of Pharmacutical Stocks and owns several houses of ill-repute in Belgium ---so He has a right to fight for the liberty he requires to exist.
Bhaktajan II
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Hey Dog,
Hinduism is where real spirituality exists and originates . . . where material possessions and modern facilities are concidered an redundant and bogus and detrimental concern.
Yall can't touch this subject.
Dog, stand back and learn some new tricks to please your masters.
Ohhh, it's spring time for dog . . .
Hey Dog, The Amish & Quakers & Essennes et al are irrational too?
The Amish are intentionally un-worldly?
What does Airplanes have to do with Modern Facilities?
Do you mean Airplain as "War-Machine"?
If we all GO GREEN ---we can still use modern machines?
Will that stop inflation & Poverty & Hunger & Illiterarcy & Decease & War ---how does modernity benefit society?
It surely provides for national security . . . but that leaves every soul to just be a staticical gog in the wheel of a machine that serves the market place at the expense of spiritual enlightenment.
Hinduism is where real spirituality exists and originates . . . where material possessions and modern facilities are concidered an redundant and bogus and detrimental concern.
Yall can't touch this subject.
Dog, stand back and learn some new tricks to please your masters.
Ohhh, it's spring time for dog . . .
Hey Dog, The Amish & Quakers & Essennes et al are irrational too?
The Amish are intentionally un-worldly?
What does Airplanes have to do with Modern Facilities?
Do you mean Airplain as "War-Machine"?
If we all GO GREEN ---we can still use modern machines?
Will that stop inflation & Poverty & Hunger & Illiterarcy & Decease & War ---how does modernity benefit society?
It surely provides for national security . . . but that leaves every soul to just be a staticical gog in the wheel of a machine that serves the market place at the expense of spiritual enlightenment.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
I know, bizarre isn't it, I have way too much time on my hands again lol
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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A Muslimwoman says to a Dogbrain, "bizarre isn't it".
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Thanks for the scholarly review of Do's and Do not's as per the Koran.
You're bored? I want my classroom fees refunded to me.
Ironic that this entire thread, when read without your posts, would be a curriculum's "Outline of Subjects" for a two year course of study of the Koran's injunctions of "Do's and Don'ts" as per the Koran.
getting oriented without much help from the Muslimwomen,
Bhaktajan
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Thanks for the scholarly review of Do's and Do not's as per the Koran.
You're bored? I want my classroom fees refunded to me.
Ironic that this entire thread, when read without your posts, would be a curriculum's "Outline of Subjects" for a two year course of study of the Koran's injunctions of "Do's and Don'ts" as per the Koran.
getting oriented without much help from the Muslimwomen,
Bhaktajan
Amica
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Salaam--
Many Muslims may find themselves stuck with the idea that something must be explicitly written either in the Noble Qur'an or in the hadiths for them to follow. However, in the Noble Qur'an the believers are continually reminded to use the gift of reason along side with the qur'anic teachings to be able to decide what is halal (right; allowed).
Having said that, the Qur'an is timeless Revelation. As the time passess by, we are revealed many modern habits of humanity today. For instance, in one verse human fingerprints are mentioned in the context of resurrection (that Allah SWT will be able to resurrect every human in such an accuracy as is seen in a person's fingeprints). Back in 7th century, such technology of being able to identify one by fingerprints was unheard of. Or how about the verse where plastic surgery is alluded to as something not allowed/halal in the context where it is mentioned that people will change what Allah SWT created.
With those couple examples, I would like to say that I believe that in Islaam not everything is halal unless specifically stated otherwise, because as Muslims we must use reason, study the qur'anic teachings and then make final decisions as united people, the Ummah.
Many Muslims may find themselves stuck with the idea that something must be explicitly written either in the Noble Qur'an or in the hadiths for them to follow. However, in the Noble Qur'an the believers are continually reminded to use the gift of reason along side with the qur'anic teachings to be able to decide what is halal (right; allowed).
Having said that, the Qur'an is timeless Revelation. As the time passess by, we are revealed many modern habits of humanity today. For instance, in one verse human fingerprints are mentioned in the context of resurrection (that Allah SWT will be able to resurrect every human in such an accuracy as is seen in a person's fingeprints). Back in 7th century, such technology of being able to identify one by fingerprints was unheard of. Or how about the verse where plastic surgery is alluded to as something not allowed/halal in the context where it is mentioned that people will change what Allah SWT created.
With those couple examples, I would like to say that I believe that in Islaam not everything is halal unless specifically stated otherwise, because as Muslims we must use reason, study the qur'anic teachings and then make final decisions as united people, the Ummah.
Bhaktajan II
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http://www.interfaith.org/forum/saving-yourself-from-the-idols-7124.html#post230955
Re: Saving yourself from the idols of today
Quote:
An Idol is anything that is used to enslave the mind of a person.
For example, Petroleum production. Television. Baywatch. Radio Music. Western Clothes, Lipstick. Nuclear Electric Power Generators. Electric Lights. Electric Refrigration & Air-conditioning. Auto-mobiles. Airplaines etc.
These all "enslave the mind of a person" to work hard in factories for the chance to rent time to utilise these mundane facilities.
The persons selling will need those that buy ---which "bill of sale" is the above LINKED OP refering to?
Re: Saving yourself from the idols of today
Quote:
An Idol is anything that is used to enslave the mind of a person.
For example, Petroleum production. Television. Baywatch. Radio Music. Western Clothes, Lipstick. Nuclear Electric Power Generators. Electric Lights. Electric Refrigration & Air-conditioning. Auto-mobiles. Airplaines etc.
These all "enslave the mind of a person" to work hard in factories for the chance to rent time to utilise these mundane facilities.
The persons selling will need those that buy ---which "bill of sale" is the above LINKED OP refering to?
In ancient Babylon, fingerprints were used as identifying marks for business transactions more than 2,500 years befor the Qur'an. About 2,400 years before the Qur'an, fingerprints were used to identify criminals in Mesopotamia. 400 years before the Qur'an, Chinese officials took fingerprints as evidence at crime scenes. Arab merchants, of course, traveled to China, and were aware of the Chinese use of fingerprinting.
In India, skin grafting was done more than 1,000 years before the Qur'an. Likewise, rhinoplasty and ear modifications were known at about the same time.
The more I see claims about the "prophetic" nature of the Qur'an, the more I am led to conclude that it only "foresees" technological and scientific developments if one is utterly ignorant of the history of science and technology.
Perhaps some tactic other than "The Qur'an predicted..." might result in looking less ridiculous...
c0de
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There is nothing in the fingerprint verse that hints at any "prophecy" whatsoever. Amica is clearly mistaken. But this does not mean there are no prophecies in the Quran at all. As far as I know, there are five major prophecies in the Quran, two of which were visibly fullfilled within the Prophet's own lifetime. The third was fullfilled within his generation and two others which are still on the "waiting list".
- The defeat of the Sassnids at the hands of the Byzantines.
- The fall of Mecca
- The spread of Islam to far away lands.
- A major (possibly global) conflict in which there will be no "good guys" and no winners. (NOTE: there is no mention of any "antichrist" in the Quran.)
- Followed immediatly by Judgement Day
Bhaktajan II
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AKA: Saving yourself from the idols of today ~
Where in the Quran does it require permission to use modern technology?
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"False Renunciation vs Real Renunciation"
or
"Everything you ever wanted to know about renunciation but was afriad to ask"
The technical yogic term is:
"yukta-vairagya" which refers to renunciation ascetic Brahmins [aka, Swami(s)] and the protocol for adopting material facilities for preaching the Dharma ---yet, without attracting the scorn of the community of one's contempoary renunciants, and still adhering to the protocols of traditional Yogic contemplative disciplines, such as the primary requisite, namely, 'renunciation'.
.........................................
Yukta-vairagya: Bhakti Yoga Dictionary on Yukta-vairagya
Yukta-vairagya = appropriate renunciation; renunciation which is suitable for entrance into bhakti. This is defined in Bhakti-rasamrtasindhu (1.2.255): "When one is detached from material sense enjoyment, but accepts in appropriate proportion objects which are favorable to one’s bhakti, and shows special inclination toward things which are directly related to Krsna, such as mahaprasada, his renunciation is known as yukta-vairagya.” (See phalgu-vairagya with which this is contrasted.)
yukta-vairagya = real renunciation by utilizing everything in the service of God.
The Book named, "Bhakti-rasa-amrta-sindhu" is a major guide book of Bhakti-yoga.
More notes:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0184600AAoM9At
Yukta-vairagya - appropriate renunciation; renunciation which is suitable for entrance into bhakti. This is defined in Bhakti-rasamrtasindhu (1.2.255):
anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah
nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate
"Things should be accepted for the Lord's service and not for one's personal sense gratification. If one accepts something without attachment and accepts it because it is related to Krsna, one's renunciation is called yukta-vairagya."
Since Krsna is the Absolute Truth, whatever is accepted for His service is also the Absolute Truth.
(Real renunciation by utilizing everything in the service of God.)
Inappropriate renunciation:
In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.256), markata-vairagya, or phalgu-vairagya, is explained as follows:
prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah
mumuksubhih parityago vairagyam phalgu kathyate
"When persons eager to achieve liberation renounce things related to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, thinking them to be material, their renunciation is called incomplete."
Whatever is favorable for the rendering of service to the Lord should be accepted and should not be rejected as a material thing.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very much opposed to these markata-vairagis, or pseudo Vaisnavas.
Srila Prabhupada's explanation of phalgu-vairagya: He said that there is a River Phalgu that flows through Gaya in Bihar. It appears to be only a dry sandy riverbed, but if one pushes his hand into the sand he'll find water beheath. Similarly, a phalgu-vairagi seems to have renounced the world, but underneath, in his heart, he nurtures a huge desire to become God. Hence his vairagya (renunciation) is in reality phalgu (insignificant).
(The word markata-vairagya, indicating false renunciation, is very important. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Swami, in commenting on this word, points out that monkeys make an external show of renunciation by not accepting clothing and by living naked in the forest. In this way they consider themselves renunciants. Such renunciation is called markata-vairagya -- the renunciation of a monkey.
One cannot be really renounced until one actually becomes disgusted with material activity and sees it as a stumbling block to spiritual advancement.
Renunciation should not be phalgu, temporary, but should exist throughout one's life. Temporary renunciation, or monkey renunciation, is like the renunciation one feels at a cremation ground.
When a man takes a dead body to the crematorium, he sometimes thinks, "This is the final end of the body. Why am I working so hard day and night?" Such sentiments naturally arise in the mind of any man who goes to a crematorial ghata.
However, as soon as he returns from the cremation grounds, he again engages in material activity for sense enjoyment. This is called smasana-vairagya, or markata-vairagya.)
Where in the Quran does it require permission to use modern technology?
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"False Renunciation vs Real Renunciation"
or
"Everything you ever wanted to know about renunciation but was afriad to ask"
The technical yogic term is:
"yukta-vairagya" which refers to renunciation ascetic Brahmins [aka, Swami(s)] and the protocol for adopting material facilities for preaching the Dharma ---yet, without attracting the scorn of the community of one's contempoary renunciants, and still adhering to the protocols of traditional Yogic contemplative disciplines, such as the primary requisite, namely, 'renunciation'.
.........................................
Yukta-vairagya: Bhakti Yoga Dictionary on Yukta-vairagya
Yukta-vairagya = appropriate renunciation; renunciation which is suitable for entrance into bhakti. This is defined in Bhakti-rasamrtasindhu (1.2.255): "When one is detached from material sense enjoyment, but accepts in appropriate proportion objects which are favorable to one’s bhakti, and shows special inclination toward things which are directly related to Krsna, such as mahaprasada, his renunciation is known as yukta-vairagya.” (See phalgu-vairagya with which this is contrasted.)
yukta-vairagya = real renunciation by utilizing everything in the service of God.
The Book named, "Bhakti-rasa-amrta-sindhu" is a major guide book of Bhakti-yoga.
More notes:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0184600AAoM9At
Yukta-vairagya - appropriate renunciation; renunciation which is suitable for entrance into bhakti. This is defined in Bhakti-rasamrtasindhu (1.2.255):
anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah
nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate
"Things should be accepted for the Lord's service and not for one's personal sense gratification. If one accepts something without attachment and accepts it because it is related to Krsna, one's renunciation is called yukta-vairagya."
Since Krsna is the Absolute Truth, whatever is accepted for His service is also the Absolute Truth.
(Real renunciation by utilizing everything in the service of God.)
Inappropriate renunciation:
In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.256), markata-vairagya, or phalgu-vairagya, is explained as follows:
prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah
mumuksubhih parityago vairagyam phalgu kathyate
"When persons eager to achieve liberation renounce things related to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, thinking them to be material, their renunciation is called incomplete."
Whatever is favorable for the rendering of service to the Lord should be accepted and should not be rejected as a material thing.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very much opposed to these markata-vairagis, or pseudo Vaisnavas.
Srila Prabhupada's explanation of phalgu-vairagya: He said that there is a River Phalgu that flows through Gaya in Bihar. It appears to be only a dry sandy riverbed, but if one pushes his hand into the sand he'll find water beheath. Similarly, a phalgu-vairagi seems to have renounced the world, but underneath, in his heart, he nurtures a huge desire to become God. Hence his vairagya (renunciation) is in reality phalgu (insignificant).
(The word markata-vairagya, indicating false renunciation, is very important. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Swami, in commenting on this word, points out that monkeys make an external show of renunciation by not accepting clothing and by living naked in the forest. In this way they consider themselves renunciants. Such renunciation is called markata-vairagya -- the renunciation of a monkey.
One cannot be really renounced until one actually becomes disgusted with material activity and sees it as a stumbling block to spiritual advancement.
Renunciation should not be phalgu, temporary, but should exist throughout one's life. Temporary renunciation, or monkey renunciation, is like the renunciation one feels at a cremation ground.
When a man takes a dead body to the crematorium, he sometimes thinks, "This is the final end of the body. Why am I working so hard day and night?" Such sentiments naturally arise in the mind of any man who goes to a crematorial ghata.
However, as soon as he returns from the cremation grounds, he again engages in material activity for sense enjoyment. This is called smasana-vairagya, or markata-vairagya.)
And what of this rubbish pertains directly to the Qur'an? Or are you merely indulging in more Hare Krishna style OCD behavior?
I used to think that hardcore Christian proselytizers could not be exceeded in obnoxiousness, irrelevance, or pointlessness. I have been proven wrong.
I used to think that hardcore Christian proselytizers could not be exceeded in obnoxiousness, irrelevance, or pointlessness. I have been proven wrong.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
Here, here
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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There there . . .
"FALSE RENUNCIATION":
False Ego (sanskrit, ahankara)
Un-gratefull,
Impositioning,
bereft of cultivation,
False witnessing.
Finally born to occupy the post.
"FALSE RENUNCIATION":
False Ego (sanskrit, ahankara)
Un-gratefull,
Impositioning,
bereft of cultivation,
False witnessing.
Finally born to occupy the post.
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
<mod>bhaktajan, you need to really dial this down, it is getting tedious. the people here are not the ones you are angry with. besides, anger is ego too, go and get rid of it somewhere, or there will be consequences.</mod>
b'shalom
bananabrain
b'shalom
bananabrain
Bhaktajan II
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Yes, Speaking Un-equivically is what my OP is all about.
Post 32 make sensational use of adjectives, without citing scholarly references. ie:
rubbish
indulging in OCD behavior
hardcore Christian proselytizers
exceeded in obnoxiousness, irrelevance, or pointlessness.
My suggestion is that only relevant sincere posts be made on this thread.
Post 32 make sensational use of adjectives, without citing scholarly references. ie:
rubbish
indulging in OCD behavior
hardcore Christian proselytizers
exceeded in obnoxiousness, irrelevance, or pointlessness.
My suggestion is that only relevant sincere posts be made on this thread.
bob x
Well-Known Member
<notamod>Yes, well that was bananabrain's suggestion too. Elaborations on Sanskrit technical terms and emotional venting at people who aren't here aren't particularly relevant.</notamod>
Bhaktajan II
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I felt that the picture was relevant to theme of the OP.
I want to apologise for two things:
1] I apologise for my post coming immediately after the good MuslimWoman’s post ---I apologise sincerely because my post WAS NOT directed to MuslimWoman’s post ---I saw this Picture posted earlier on this site and I found it apropos to my OP. It is an ironic and regrettable coincidence that MuslimWoman’s Avatar is a ‘virtual’ picture of a veiled Muslim. So it would seem that I was “inspired” my MuslimWoman’s earlier posting to ‘retaliate’ in a sort of rhetorical fashion as my post may construe ---but that is NOT intention ---I was in keeping with the thread’s OP, that we may stand on the shoulders of those that went before us and yet we mock our good–fortune of liberty long before bestowed upon us charitable forbearers.
Without Muslimwoman’s and Dogbrain’s posts ---my posting of this picture would have been read as a clearly lineal, coherent extention and expression of my intent in my OP.
Lastly, it can be argued that the women pictured DID NOT believe what the placard says ---that these typically meek women, out of anguish, had been overcome with dis-comfort, they where making social satire to enflame public sentiment for their public anguish and thus garner great sympathy.
2] I apologise for my post IF IT IS A BOGUS/FALSE picture without provenance.
If this picture, which I searched for, after seeing it elsewhere, and which I found and post in this thread [which I started] as emblematic of my OP --- IF IT IS A BOGUS/FALSE picture ---it must be purged form this forum.
I want to apologise for two things:
1] I apologise for my post coming immediately after the good MuslimWoman’s post ---I apologise sincerely because my post WAS NOT directed to MuslimWoman’s post ---I saw this Picture posted earlier on this site and I found it apropos to my OP. It is an ironic and regrettable coincidence that MuslimWoman’s Avatar is a ‘virtual’ picture of a veiled Muslim. So it would seem that I was “inspired” my MuslimWoman’s earlier posting to ‘retaliate’ in a sort of rhetorical fashion as my post may construe ---but that is NOT intention ---I was in keeping with the thread’s OP, that we may stand on the shoulders of those that went before us and yet we mock our good–fortune of liberty long before bestowed upon us charitable forbearers.
Without Muslimwoman’s and Dogbrain’s posts ---my posting of this picture would have been read as a clearly lineal, coherent extention and expression of my intent in my OP.
Lastly, it can be argued that the women pictured DID NOT believe what the placard says ---that these typically meek women, out of anguish, had been overcome with dis-comfort, they where making social satire to enflame public sentiment for their public anguish and thus garner great sympathy.
2] I apologise for my post IF IT IS A BOGUS/FALSE picture without provenance.
If this picture, which I searched for, after seeing it elsewhere, and which I found and post in this thread [which I started] as emblematic of my OP --- IF IT IS A BOGUS/FALSE picture ---it must be purged form this forum.
c0de
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.
bhaktajan, perhaps u can also answer a question about another picture:
^^ what, exactly, is goin on here??
Seriously??
i have 2 say dude, the randomness of this image is so epic, I feel it deserves a proper certificate.
On behalf of The Commonwealth of Randomness, I present you with:
bhaktajan, perhaps u can also answer a question about another picture:
^^ what, exactly, is goin on here??
Seriously??
i have 2 say dude, the randomness of this image is so epic, I feel it deserves a proper certificate.
On behalf of The Commonwealth of Randomness, I present you with:
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
ok, i'm going to lock this thread if it continues to derail. either get back to the subject and play nice or else.
b'shalom
bananabrain
b'shalom
bananabrain