Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
I have been offended by people enough to strike back, but even then it was not my response to insult their intelligence. My own experience at being offended is that it has more to do with my own perception of what is happening in that thread. It often feels like the other guy really wants to hit me (metaphorically speaking). If there is something that lessens my anger, it is that I probably would have said the same thing if I was in the same situation.
I don't know who it is you say was being rude to you, whether it is a group or a single person. But you are not alone in being insulted in the forums, and we have probably been slandered by at least one person in common. I choose not to name the person I am thinking of, because the point is that if you have experienced it, other people have probably experienced it too.
(There is a certain person in the forums who ...... ah heck, whatever.
)If I speak ill of anyone, I try my best to avoid referring to a group or individual that participates in the forums, especially one involved in the discussion here. This is where straw men come in handy. If you don't want to attack fellow forum members, then attack a straw man. It is also not my policy to insult someone's intelligence. I don't use terms or expressions like "retards," and "defending the indefensible." It is not my style. I spoke my mind and said what I intended to say, which I do not consider pretentious. I did not check for any "logical contradictions" in what I said. I communicate intent, not cryptic logic.
You may well have been offended by what I said, just as I might have been offended by you calling me rude, which may also be rude to me, but a more important question is what do I do with that? Criticism is rude and offensive. How do I respond to criticism? .... could be an idea for a new thread.
Haven't you already done the questioning yourself? You are asking other people to question thought systems and religions that are not your own. For now, you can at least be satisfied with your own personal journey in "questioning" things.
Asking people to question their "religion"......That would be less of a problem if there was no internal debate or conflict about the merits, ethics and benefits of certain ideas and attitudes within a religion, whether that religion is being divisive, enslaving people or doing harm to humanity. But I know that there is internal debate and conflict within religions about the merits, ethics, ideas and attitudes towards themselves and outsiders. There are people who question the established thought system of a religion and they do it as part of that religion of which they are the adherents. They try to reform the system, not tear it down.
If you are asking people to question the established thought system I have less of a problem with that. I have less of a problem with trying to reform existing systems. But if you are asking people to question the idea of belonging to that religion, I am not so supportive. You'd be asking people to tear down a system and that is going to cause some social angst. Asking people to question the whole thing is like barging in on family matters and tearing that family apart.
If people leave a religion, no problem. That is a personal matter. Just leave the "system" alone and let it be. If religions have an emotional appeal to people and emotions are an important part of humanity, then you are intruding on someone else's humanity, by asking them to "question" their religion. If a person is going to question, they are going to question. It's an individualistic and spontaneous process. You cannot make a person question something because then you are interfering with their autonomy. Let them do it on their own.
Being enlightened by science is one thing, but questioning is another. Furthermore, you have already done the questioning yourself. You have decided what is right for you. Asking someone else to question is a bit intrusive isn't it? You're intruding on someone else's individual independence. You are not even part of the "system," the religion of which they are a part. Your request to people to "question" their beliefs doesn't benefit their community and community is an important thing to humanity.
If people's responses here are offensive, then hopefully my view here will explain why people may be offended by your view/questioning. I am also aware that you may be offended by this explanation I have given. Criticism is often offensive and what is offensive is often rude. If I have been rude here then sorry, I am just trying to explain the situation and how the "system" works.
I am not in any way saying there is no point to this thread. People have to put their views and ideas out there and see what happens. I do that. I know that I have offended a lot of people during my membership here. I don't do it deliberately. Most of it was an accident and I learned from it.
What I am more concerned about is what conclusion you form from this discussion, which from my perspective is far from over. I do not believe this thread has run its course and that everybody has explored the issue fully. In this post, however, I am not talking about your opening post, but your point about "questioning." I am close to concluding about the "questioning," but not the "enlightened by science" aspect.
I have yet to respond to Diagoras' post. When I get around to doing that, I may respond to your opening post (which is what you want, right?) -- if I get the time......
